My model 28 not shooting good.

[Idaho Ron]

I hope you guys have some insight for me. I loaded some 180 gr hornadys for my 357 with 13.5 gr of H110. I also took out some of grandpa's lead loads. I shot both the lead and my 180's and the gun won't shoot a group. I can shoot tight groups with my 44 mag with 300 gr, and my 22 pistol. I have shot a couple of deer with my 44 mag so I feel like i am doing my best, and I was using a rest. The things that concerns me are.
1- the action would kind of lock up when I tried to thumb cock the gun. No bullets were sticking out of the cylinder. I used a good crimp and the bullets were not backing out.
2-  the cylinder feels like their is too much play in it side to side with the cylinder closed.
3- I felt something hit my cheek when shooting it.
 
Grandpa's lead loads were WAY too hot, he has passed away so I can't ask him if the gun has a pet load. His loads poked a hole in the primers and they were FLAT. That might have been what hit my face, some powder form the primers that were pirced. I didn't notice it with my 180 gr loads.  He shot a LOT of lead bullets so it might be a lead problem. With the heavy loads he used I could see the possability of a lead build up. The thing that bothers me is the action lock up and the play. I don't have a gunsmith close to let him look at it.  Ron

[DWTim]

Hmm, I probably wouldn't have shot jacketed bullets inbetween some lead ones of unknown quality.

Whose gun is this, yours? I take it that it was locking up with his ammo and not yours?

The first thing I would do is take grandpa's ammo and randomly select 5-6 rounds per every 100. I would then pull the bullets and weigh the powder charges. If he's got any old powder cans around, I'd try to identify the powder. Basically I'd do as much detective work as possible before firing an unfamiliar load. (Especially since you can't ask the loader!)

In terms of leading in the bore, all of my lead loads do that to some extent. I only get worried when it gets worse with every shot. I bring a mini Mag-light to the range to inspect if I'm unsure of whether I've matched the pressure of a load to the bullet's hardness.

Definitely use a solvent and few patch passes to get out the fouling and have a look at the bore. Lead build-up is very easy to spot.

[dubber123]

As far as the binding up, look for any crud under the ejector star, as even a few little pieces of dirt can cause some guns to lock up.  I just saw a friends Redhawk lock up tight, and the tiny little bit of fouling under the star was the culprit.  Good luck.

[dave375hh]

The inaccuracy is most likely due to the mixing of the lead and jacketed bullets in the same session. The binding is likely due to a piece of one of those pierced primers falling off the fireing pin into the action. I've seen this happen on three occasions. There's a piece of primer in your action, the pierced primer can and does come away as a little disc of brass that falls off the hammer mounted fireing pin into the works.

[Idaho Ron]

Thanks guys, Dave how do you recommend the cleaning for a this? Should I dunk her in cleaning fluid and hit her with a brush and air?  Ron

[DWTim]

Ron:

How bad is it? If you mean leading in the barrel, I liberally apply Hoppes #9 to the bore and let it work in. I do this twice a day (I usually go home for lunch) for a couple of days. Then I use a regular old brass brush with paper or a rag to catch the lead shavings. If a flashlight inspection still reveals big bumps of lead, I go at with a Lewis lead remover, then repeat with wet brushing.

If the gun has a nickel finish, I would avoid soaking with #9, though.

[Idaho Ron]

I am not sure about the leading in the barrel. Right now the thing I am most worried about is it locking up. After i get that worked out I need to figure out why I can't hit the broad side of a barn when I am in the barn. I have to confess I didn't clean it when I got it from my grandpa. It looked clean but there might have already been lead in the barrel. I started off shooting jacketed bullets and then went to the lead bullets. I have done this in my 44 mag several times. I have NEVER seen a accuracy problem doing this. But Grandpa's lead loads are HOT, mine were only about 900 to 1000 FPS. His loads are much heavier than that. MUCH MUCH more.  Ron

[Mikey]

Ron - couple of problems:  (1) that old M28 may need some S&W gunsmithing.  In the first instance it sounds like it is out of time (timing needs adjustment, maybe a new advancing hand).  Also, the hammer spring may need to be adjusted as sometimes when they are tightened too much you get that locking up feeling.

(2) get rid of grandpa's old loads.  If those dang things put holes in the primers and flatten what's left they are way too hot for the revolver.  Also, in the older days some folk used faster buring powders to get more velocity and that caused the spacing washers at the end of the cylinder to erode, also pushing the cylinder out fo time and lockup.

(3) what probably hit your face was either leading being blown backwards off the butt end of the barrel, or unburnt powder being blown backward at ya.  On one M27 (same gun) I had, the butt end of the barrel had a machined 'shelf' still on and the back end of the barrel was square.  That gun blew all sorts of stuf back at me.  I worked off that 'shelf' and then filed off the shoulder edge or outside edge of the barrel and no more blowback.

But, if there is not a S&W gunsmith around, arrange for a local gunsmith to send it back to S&W for repair.  I would first call the S&W repair shop and (1) talk about getting your revolver repaired - they are happy to do that - and find out if there is someone local who might be qualified to work on S&Ws.  The S&W repair costs are pretty minimal and they go through the entire gun before sending back to a customer.  May cost you a couple of bucks to have a local dealer ship it but you get a 'new' gun back and that is well worth it.

I don't know about those 180 gn loads, except they don't seem to live up to what the 357 is capable of.  My M28 shoots the 200 gn swcs over 12.4 of WW296 (Winchester max load) so well that it has become the only bullet I use.  You load may be cookin' a bit too fast but I don't shoot the 180s, so I'm not sure.  Anyhow, contact S&W - they will help resolve your problems.  HTH.  Mikey.

[dave375hh]

Idaho Ron,
To get the piece of primer out requires you to remover the side plate and pick it out. The odds of being able to flush it out are slim. If your not familiar with this, take it to a gunsmith. The sideplate fits tight and you shouldn't pry on it to remove it. Taking out the screws and tapping on the opposite side of the gripframe untill it loosens the plate is the correct method. You also need to know where everything goes to properly reassemble the gun.

Oh yeah, the suggestion that you not fire anymore of Grandpa's loads is a good idea.

[Wingman26]

This could be a timing problem, you don't want just anybody to work on a revolver with a timing problem, send it back to the factory!  Before you send it off make sure it is spotlessly clean, be sure to clean under the extractor star on the cylinder, and don't send any nice grips in, only standard grips, if you send custom grips in you probably won't get them back.

To get lead out the best method is one I learned from Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat....Go to WalMart and get a COPPER Chore Boy, these are in the section where they sell dishwashing detergent and dish cleaning pads, only get the COPPER one, do not get the stainless!  When you have the copper Chore Boy take an old pair of scissors and cut a patch out of it, don't worry, it cuts pretty easily, then wrap that patch around a bronze bristle brush, and proceed to run that through the barrel and cylinder, you should see flakes of lead coming out, this method works like a champ for getting the lead out! 

Hoppe's #9 has no effect on lead, it works on copper but not lead, the other alternative to the Chore Boy method is to get a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownell's, I used to use the Lewis Lead Remover before I learned of the Chore Boy method, the Chore Boy method is far cheaper and works far better than the Lewis Lead Remover.

[DWTim]

Hoppe's #9 has no effect on lead, it works on copper but not lead...

Unless it is the #9 copper remover, it has no effect on copper.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm (Not my page)

Hoppes #9 has no chemical effect on lead, but if the bore is mopped in it, and allowed to sit for 1-2 days, it will gradually seep under the lead deposits and make them easy to remove, (i.e. you probably won't need a Lewis remover).

[Idaho Ron]

Can anybody give me the phone number or email for  S&W? I think I am going to send it to them.  Ron

[DWTim]

By Email: qa@smith-wesson.com

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