Author Topic: Middle barrel (Read 1510 times)

orchemo · « **on:** December 15, 2006, 07:53:31 PM »

I have a Handi 30-06. Am going to send it in for a 223 barrel and something in the middle. First preference would be 260 Rem, but do not want to go the custom barrel route. So that leaves me with 7mm-08 or 25-06. Use would be deer and antelope. Would also be a rifle for my sons to grown into...thus 223. The 30-06 is elk & black bear.

I reload, thus the 7mm-08 with 120gr bullets seems like a good 250 yd round for deer and lopes. While I realize the 25-06 is flatter shooting..it seems the 7mm-08 is more vesitale within 250 yards and would have less muzzel blast and recoil.

Others thoughts? I wish the search function worked better on GBO.

Thanks
Eric

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2006, 08:51:53 PM »

I'd go with the 26" .280 Remington, great middle caliber, pretty hard to beat the 7mm bullet selection and the 26" barrel puts it on the heels of the 7mag. The search feature will be working shortly, Matt has the database about 50% indexed, if he continues at the current rate, it should be done in a week or so, hopefully.

Tim

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2006, 12:31:42 AM »

That's a very good question with regards to a young shooter and the recoil issue.

I have a 7mm-08, .280 and a .30-06. I find there is a not that much difference in recoil between the .280 and '06. The 7-08 recoils much less then either. However, I have never shot a .25-06 in any type of firearm.

To everyone who has shot each of these calibers, where does the .25-06 sit with regards to recoil? How about the .308?

Thanks
Joe

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2006, 12:38:11 AM »

I'd get a .30-30.

shaner · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2006, 01:37:55 AM »

i think 30/30 or a 243 ,,, i think the 2506 kicks right up there with the 3006's

lik2hunt · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2006, 01:39:05 AM »

Go with the 26" 25-06. It'll "get er done" on both the antelope and the deer. But Swampman has made a good suggestion also, spire point bullets loaded in a trusty thudy thudy should be hard hitting and give ya some good distance too. Most have had great results with the 125 gr. BT bulltets. Both are pretty easy on the shoulder. But a .243 would be easier and would also be good on both species. Any of the three would be a good choice in my books.........heck just get 'em all! Welcome to Handi-Holicism!

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2006, 01:40:09 AM »

Yep, the .243 would be good too.

kennyd · « **Reply #7 on:** December 16, 2006, 03:01:22 AM »

With the 7-08 you have a heavier bullet selection over the .25-06. My .25-06 doesn't recoil nearly has hard as a .30. I don't know about the 7 as I haven't shot one. You do get a longer barrel with the 25. Depending on how big your deer are, the .243 may not carry quite enough bullet. My 25 is the one I go to for antelope. The .280 is very close to the 30-06 in uses. Recoil is a function of bullet weight and velocity, so looking at the muzzle energy should give you a rough idea of the recoil. Is the .223 legal for antelope in your area? Colorado specifies .24 or larger for all big game, don't know about all the states. I know of a rancher who regulary uses a .223 for 'lopes anyway with required results.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 16, 2006, 03:11:56 AM »

I'd go with a 243 or 25-06 as for mre versitile. Having a 30-06 barrel takes up the upper end of more versitile.

wcf3030 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 16, 2006, 04:56:30 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 16, 2006, 12:38:11 AM

I'd get a .30-30.

Yep!

PartsMan · « **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2006, 04:33:24 PM »

I love my 25-06
recoil is much nicer than my brothers 270
Shoots factory rem ammo moa
and is two for two on deer.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 16, 2006, 04:40:36 PM »

Quote from: orchemo on December 15, 2006, 07:53:31 PM

I have a Handi 30-06. Am going to send it in for a 223 barrel and something in the middle. First preference would be 260 Rem, but do not want to go the custom barrel route. So that leaves me with 7mm-08 or 25-06. Use would be deer and antelope. Would also be a rifle for my sons to grown into...thus 223. The 30-06 is elk & black bear.

I reload, thus the 7mm-08 with 120gr bullets seems like a good 250 yd round for deer and lopes. While I realize the 25-06 is flatter shooting..it seems the 7mm-08 is more vesitale within 250 yards and would have less muzzel blast and recoil.

Others thoughts? I wish the search function worked better on GBO.

Thanks
Eric

Actually...you could get any of the barrels that have the managed recoil rounds available and use them as well...less kick...less muzzle blast......The 7-08 is a great round...as to the 25-06...To bad you can't get both of them...then you wouldn't have to decide...

Mac

orchemo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2006, 07:27:25 PM »

Getting both is an option, but not sure there really exist much benefit.

Was checking to see if there was a compelling argument against the 7mm-08, but that still seems the plan.

Thanks to everyone.
Eric

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2006, 09:11:42 PM »

Quote

Getting both is an option, but not sure there really exist much benefit.

There is always benefits to owning more than one...With the option...you can utilize a far greater selection of loads...tailored to fit your present...& future needs...

Mac

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2006, 12:40:42 AM »

To tell the truth a person with a .30-06 and a .223 has everything in North America covered. Why not buy something fun to shoot like a .45-70 or a .357 Magnum. To me the recoil from a .25-06 or a 7mm-08 is exactly the same level as a .30-06.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2006, 03:35:48 AM »

If you are a reloader I was going to say get a 30-30 or a .280 Remington. But then after reading the last post things started to come into focus. If you are a reloader, and even if you are not, I would suggest first a .357 Magnum reamed out to .357 Max. You could shoot everything from plastic or wax .38 caliber bullets in the living room to full house .357 Max rounds. The choice of mid range .38 Special wadcutters for squirrels, full house .38 Spl +P+'s, .357 Mag's of all descriptions, .360 Dan Wessons, and .357 Maximums covers a multitude of applications. Another plus is the ease of loading straight wall cases and case life. My second choice would be the 30-30 since ammo is everywhere and cheap if you do not reload and if you do you can load it to many different specs. Loaded with spitzer bullets in the .308 diameter case you have a hum-dinger which far outdistances the usual factory roundnose...Buy them both, or get one and then perhaps later get the other barrel fitted to that frame, they are both "great guns"....<><....

P.S. - I agree that we all "need" a 45-70!!!!....<><....

mt3030 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2006, 08:39:17 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 17, 2006, 12:40:42 AM

...To me the recoil from a .25-06 or a 7mm-08 is exactly the same level as a .30-06.

Exactly, not comparable or similiar? To make this statement, obviously you have used all three calibers extensively in the field.

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2006, 10:07:08 AM »

Between the .375 H&H and the .243 Winchester, there are 2 wonderful rimless cartridges. The .308 Winchester and the .30-06. The rest are also rans.

nomosendero · « **Reply #18 on:** December 18, 2006, 04:13:20 AM »

270 is an also ran, wow!!!

All rounds mentioned will work, esp. for Deer at normal ranges & can be used for Antelope. I like the 280 alot, but you did not ask about it, plus you have a 30-06 barrel & that means your upper level animals bigger than Deer are covered. The 223 takes care of
volume shooting & most varmits. So, I guess this leaves some of the long range, windy day Varmits & Deer & Antelope with bigger
animals shot with the 06.

To me this is an easy choice. The 7mm-08 is a great Deer round, but the other shooting that I see done with this barrel makes the
25-06 the clear winner. Anyone who actually hunt Antelope know that the 25-06 is more than up to the task & in fact many argue
that this round is the best available for this purpose. I have witnessed Antelope being shot with 25-06 & AI, 270, 30-06, 300WM, 30-30AI & others & the 25-06 gives up nothing for Antelope or Mule Deer to at least 400 yards.

Also, the 25-06 comes with a 26" barrel of decent weight/contour which makes it easier to shoot in the field & the 26" will help you
utilize the velocity potential of the round. This gives the round in the Handi more of an edge over the 7-08 than if they had the same barrel. As far as recoil is concerned, both rounds you asked about are mild for Big Game shooting, & for varmits the 25 would be a little less, due to lighter bullets used in this high volume application. The recoil of the 25-06 in the Deer loads is way less than the 30-06 with the powder volume being the same, but with lighter bullets, just a matter of physics.

Later on you could buy a 45-70 barrel for big, nasty stuff or just fun shooting. With those 4 barrels you would have no gaps for ANY
animals that you care to hunt.

mt3030 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2006, 04:48:23 AM »

Quote from: orchemo on December 15, 2006, 07:53:31 PM

I reload, thus the 7mm-08 with 120gr bullets seems like a good 250 yd round for deer and lopes. While I realize the 25-06 is flatter shooting..it seems the 7mm-08 is more vesitale within 250 yards and would have less muzzel blast and recoil.

Others thoughts?...

Nomosendero hit the nail right on the head. I've used 25-06s as my go-to caliber for antelope and mule deer for years. Many, if not most, of our shots here in Montana are of the long type, and I think this caliber is just about as good as you can get, balancing performance (high) and recoil (low). In the NEF stable, I could be just as happy with the 270 Winchester if they would put a 26 inch tube on it. And that is after using the 30-06s and 300 Winchesters for several years.
My Ultra 25-06 just continues to surprise me year after year, which is a real confindence builder for any shooter.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2006, 04:55:39 AM »

I guess I was not looking at the question as looking for an antelope gun, not many antelope in the northern sections of Maine I usually hunt. I guess we each are looking at the question from our own perspective, locale, hunting conditions and requirements, a normal and understandable point of view.

What say you orchemo, what are your requirements, hopes and desires, locale, hunting conditions and possible game this elusive "middle barrel" is intended for?....<><....

nomosendero · « **Reply #21 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:02:19 AM »

His first post mentioned it would be for Deer & Antelope, I also noticed he lives in OR., but shoot I live in AR., yet I have been on
many Antelope hunts.
I just now noticed that he wants his sons to grow into it, I did that method with my own sons & the 25-06 is geat for that, it worked
like a charm for us.

mt3030 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2006, 05:27:30 AM »

In my last post I did not mean to take anything away from the 7-08 caliber. Since the 7-08 is ballistically a modern 7x57 it must be GREAT. That stated, I personally see no advantage to it when chambered in a single shot rifle. When chambered in a bolt action, you get to take advantage(?) of the shorter/lighter actions, but in a Handi this advantage is gone. A shooter might as well have a 280, and get the advantage of the 26 in barrel.

As orchemo stated, the 7-08 would have less muzzle blast and recoil. But being a handloader, he also would have the ability to load down to 250 Savage or 257R performances, which are both very good also. Especially with new/younger shooters coming on the scene.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2006, 07:54:24 AM »

How embarrassed I am

, I missed where the deer and antelope roam!!! It must be the hustle and bustle of the season guys, please forgive me. That said, after reading his original post and since he reloads, of the 2 options stated, the 7mm-08 and the 25-06, and the fact he wants something his son can grow into either one will do fine and niether will leave him lacking, with a possible edge to the 25-06 for a bit longer range but lighter bullets available than the 7mm. He has a 30-06 and reloads so the other options of the .280 Remington or .270 Winchester are also available and good choices but may not be needed. The .280 is a humdinger though, I sure like mine....<><....

bajabill · « **Reply #24 on:** December 18, 2006, 10:19:50 AM »

considering what you want to fit between, the 223 and 30-06

I would go with the 25-06

You can send the 75gr - 120gr pills out this one, all lighter bullets in the 223 and all the heavier ones in the 30-06. However, you already have all the "jobs" covered with what you got, now its just add capability for the heck of it.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 18, 2006, 07:11:49 PM »

Quote from: mt3030 on December 18, 2006, 04:48:23 AM

Quote from: orchemo on December 15, 2006, 07:53:31 PM

I reload, thus the 7mm-08 with 120gr bullets seems like a good 250 yd round for deer and lopes. While I realize the 25-06 is flatter shooting..it seems the 7mm-08 is more vesitale within 250 yards and would have less muzzel blast and recoil.

Others thoughts?...

Nomosendero hit the nail right on the head. I've used 25-06s as my go-to caliber for antelope and mule deer for years. Many, if not most, of our shots here in Montana are of the long type, and I think this caliber is just about as good as you can get, balancing performance (high) and recoil (low). In the NEF stable, I could be just as happy with the 270 Winchester if they would put a 26 inch tube on it. And that is after using the 30-06s and 300 Winchesters for several years.
My Ultra 25-06 just continues to surprise me year after year, which is a real confindence builder for any shooter.

Boy...do I know what you mean by that...What folks have to go thru to get one ehh...

The 25-06 would be a better long range choice..naturally and it ranks supreme right up there with the 270 for this application...but I've found most folks think the 7-08 is better for some reason...

My self...it's going to be very difficult deciding on which 26" Ultra I use...

Eric...FWIW...both cartridges are good ones...and this is always a problem we Handi-holics have...It's so durn frustrating when all of them are good choices...and why most of us say get both...

...On a more serious note...I have found the muzzle blast of the 7-08's with shorter tubes to be just as loud as the longer 26" 25-06's and the 26" 280's...Even though this has been said...it's worth saying again...If you want 7-08 performance..you can load the 280 to this level..and have the longer barrel to boot...and be able to load it up when the time comes...I have a passion for the longer barrel Handi's...as you can see...but don't let that convince you away from getting a 270 Winchester for the youngster to start with..Even in a 22" Handi...they do quite well and is always a valid option...In case you didn't know...Remington does have managed recoil loads available for it to...just as they do for the 30-30...30-06..& the 308....and would be a good choice for a small framed child...just starting out..and work out vaery nicely for those 200yard shots...http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil.asp

Have a Great 1

Mac

myarmor · « **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2006, 08:43:20 PM »

I'm a little late to this thread, but I see many options out there. And I like most.
I guess my question is how simple do you want to be? Only 3 barrels? 4? 6? Just depends I suppose.
If your really keeping it simple, a 223, 25-06 or 243, and 30-06 would fill what most all hunters require.
I guess thats my question.
It really can get as deep as you want, and we all have our favorites..

-Aaron

orchemo · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2006, 09:01:20 PM »

Thanks for all the input. Someone asked about needs/wants...for me the Handi is a back-up rifle/project rifle. I have other rifles in 260 rem, 30-06, 270WSM, 7mm-08, 6mm, 45-70 and a couple 308s. I really like the 260 Rem for deer sized game and the 30-06 or 270WSM for black bear. Living in Oregon we have a diverse game population (elk, blacktail deer, mule deer, lopes(a few), black bear) allowing us to perceive the need for many rifle calibers.

I purchased a used 30-06 Handi after reading this forum and seeing a used one in a local shop. I ground down a limbsaver and the 30-06 is comfortable. I keeping saying I am going to get the extra barrels to have..but something else always comes along (last month a Glock 20). I have a few years before the kids are ready to hunt, but one can never start to plan too soon.

Thanks for the stimulating thoughts.

Eric

bajabill · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2006, 06:35:52 AM »

well that changes a lot

Why get another 7-08, unless you want one, If you want it, do it, and dont question your decision. No one can argue with - I wanted it.

But, how about a 357 mag, and its a great project to make it a 357max. Got one of those?

FWIW, I think the old 06 will walk all over the 260 for deer. I hunt with a -06 for everything from groundhogs to deer and on up to bear. But, I dont hunt bear. If I bought guns out of need, I would have stopped with a 12 ga and a -06, maybe throw a 22lr in there too. I am however on a quest to fill as many bullet diameters as I can, 224, 243, 277, 308. 358. 429. 458 and still closing the gaps - because I want too!!