New Hornady Bullets

[Buckskin]

Has anyone tried these new soft tipped bullets from Hornady?  They look a bit more flight freindly than the standard blunts.  Was thinking of loading a bunch up for my brother for christmas in 30/30.

[quickdtoo]

They aren't available as a component yet, only in factory ammo. They perform very well in factory ammo from most reports, tho.

Tim

[Buckskin]

Come on Hornady, we have ammo to make!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cam69conv]

Get ya credit card ready Buck...They dont and most likely wont be offering them as a componet...But as Tim Said...They do fly nice out of my .444xlr so Im pleased...The 30/30 ones aint that spencive so It'll be ok...I mean Im sure he doesnt range that often with it so really reloading isnt gonna be that cost effective anyway...Now I just cant wait to send one through a Pig to see how they HIT 

[Buckskin]

Maybe someone will come out w/ a knockoff.

[Graybeard]

Hornady has no intention of offering them to reloaders. Quite frankly even if they did you'd NOT be able to match the performance of the factory ammo and you'd likely only get yourself hurt trying. You cannot buy the non cannister powders they use in their Light Magnum line and you don't have the equipment to load it even if you could.

[Buckskin]

What is the difference in loading the soft tip to any other bullet for a 30/30?

[Graybeard]

None as long as you're willing to settle for the same velocity level but that's NOT the velocity level the factory ammo is loaded to. It's in the Light Magnum family and is going much faster. On the other hand if you're loading to same pressure and velocity then why the heck you want that bullet? It' not really gonna do one thing for you the standard RN bullets won't. It's all hype and no substance just like 99.44% of the rest of the new stuff coming out these days.

[cam69conv]

While I dont know first hand on the 30/30's I do know that you are incorrect graybeard, As far as the performance of this new line bullet in the .444....I just got through testing and the new Light mag evo outperformed my hottest loads for the 265 grainers...Test weapon was the new .444xlr and I also tried them out in my old 444 as well... At 100 Yards the new one impacted a full 2.7 inches higher than my hot loads. That in itself is telling me the new BC from the tip is working wonders and My groups were All 1 inch or under out of 20 rounds with 3 round clusters. Now the 30/30 may be different but I wouldnt call this a "hype" round myself.

[retrieverhunter]

I have killed 4 deer and 3 hogs with LeverEvs this season, and they perform GREAT!  They actually don't print on paper as well as the 150 gr Federal Classics that I shot last year, but their performance on game is so much better that I will never go back.

[Graybeard]

Actually Cam the ONLY thing it tells you is they hit to a DIFFERENT point of impact. So do many other loads. If you test loads as much as I have you can see 4" of difference at 100 yards from the change in a grain of powder or even substituting one bullet of same weight for another.

You really need to do some study of ballistics tables. Compare BC's all you want. Inside of 250 yards they make almost no difference.

[cam69conv]

Hornady 265 Grain FP Light Mag Load

Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2325/3180 1907/2140 1542/1400 1251/921 - -
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 0.00 -8.20 -31.30 - -
 
Hornady Evo

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2325/3180 1971/2285 1652/1606 1380/1120   
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.7 3.0 -1.4 -18.6
 
I see a HUGE difference just in that data and thats against thier own best ammo for the 444 and tested to 300
Now Granted That could be just hornady but there are MANY independants' that have done all this testing and they come up with pretty much the same figures. The downrange energy is better as well as the trajectory...My hot loads do perform just a little better than the light mags but not much and nowhere NEAR as well as the evo's...Now Im not one to jump on a bandwagon just for the music. I do alot of research before I change something I like cuzz Imma old fart too and hard to change ma ways but I have YET to see an ill report on these rounds. Granted yes the Mussle velocities are the same as the light mags...But its the downrange performance that Hornady was after and they achieved it quite well in my own lil opinion

[sgtt]

In the data that you provided, I do not see a HUGE difference.

[cam69conv]

you dont concider 13" in downrange impact point Huge? Granted the energy is Marginaly higher at 300 yards but still higher..And with the flatter tragectory you are more apt to be delivering it on target. As I said..The downrage trajectories were the Main goal of this round and it is still higher by as much as 110 ftlbs at 200 so all in all its a successful improvement of the 444 round and I looked at the 30/30 round and found even better results with that round...Im just trying to figure why some are calling this a hype round when the ballistic proof is out there thats its a better performer and at just under a dollar more per box when compared to other Hornady ammo!
 
Data for the 30/30

.30-30 Win., 170 gr. FP
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2200/1827 1796/1218 1450/793 1186/530 - -
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 0.00 -9.40 -35.70
 
.30-30 Win., 150 gr. RN
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2390/1902 1959/1278 1581/832 1276/542 - -
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 0.00 -7.70 -29.60
 

30-30 160 gr. Evolution
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2400/2046 2150/1643 1916/1304 1699/1025   
 
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.7 3.0 0.2 -12.1
 

Now If you look you will see a HUGE difference in both Traj. AND ftlbs In downrange performance

[sgtt]

Your information provides a 100 yd zero compared to a 3 inches hish @ 100.  Within .2 inches of comparing a 100 yd zero with a 200 yd. THAT disparity IS huge and and misleading at any ranges beyond. 

[Buckskin]

Your information provides a 100 yd zero compared to a 3 inches hish @ 100.  Within .2 inches of comparing a 100 yd zero with a 200 yd. THAT disparity IS huge and and misleading at any ranges beyond. 

Ok get rid of the 3 inch difference, its still a 15" improvement. Yeah that is HUGE.  And even more impressive is the retained energy, which you didn't comment on.  This load is a very impressive improvement to any lever load ever developed.

[Graybeard]

The fallacy is your trying to talk about what's happening at 300 yards. Neither round is a 300 yard hunting round so what's going on there is immaterial. Also I said up to 250 yards there is basically no difference based on the bullet's BC. Your numbers substantiate that.

If you think you're going to turn the .30-30 or the .444 into a 300 yard hunting cartridge then clearly you just don't have enough real world hunting experience to have this discussion. It ain't happening. Both are best used inside of 200 yards with 250 a truly long stretch for either, new bullet or not.

[Buckskin]

I would think that if the balistics are correct and I'm sure its close. Then the Evo's have done just that, turned the 30/30 into a true 300yd gun, 12 inch drop w/ plenty of energy left over. As long as it groups reasonably 300yds is certainly an ethical shot (if the shooter can do his part).

[cam69conv]

Ummmmm Gray....Take a look at those Numbers again at 200 yards....Thats close to 400lbs More energy at 200 Yards against a HEAVIER bullet the 170 grain...Now tell me where you dont see improvement please? Being as Ive only been in the woods hunting for 40 years...Being as Ive only taken well over 200 deer....Being as Ive only taken 36 elk....Being as Ive only taken 36 bear...I must not have any real experiance...I see the Numbers QUITE clearly....Insulting isnt the way to be ...The numbers speak for themselves...Its not like Hornady came out with this round with a price tag of 20 bux more than other 30/30 or .444 or 45/70's... They are relitivly the same price and a better bullet as the numbers show. If you dont wish to believe it thats ok...But do not try to say I have little experiance Graybeard when I have close to if not more so than you...I just dont have all the magazine editors for friends and such....I test all kinds of things for my own personal use and have a High volume of friends in the field...I get REAL use reports not What some Magazine tells me

[Graybeard]

This is my LAST post on this matter. You and I are NEVER gonna agree on it so let's just agree to disagree.

No I do NOT see 400 ft. lbs. of PAPER ENERGY as having any value. Sorry but you will not live long enough to change my mind on this matter. Even the major magazine writers are finally coming out of the closet and admitting the same. It is meaningless. It's barely more than what a .22LR has at the muzzle. Geez give me a break you KNOW that's of no added value.

If you take two bullets of any brand you wish, just for sake of argument take a round nose and a super sleek one like the Nosler BT. Look up their BCs. Plug them into a ballistics program and start them at identical velocity. Tell it to zero both at 200 yards. Now compare the drop figures at ranges out to 250 yards. It will not matter which brand bullet you choose or which caliber for that matter the real world difference in trajectory to about 250 yards will be less than MOA and thus something you'll be hard pressed to even see much less be able to take advantage of in the field.

THIS IS FACT not FICTION and if you can't see it I'm sorry but this discussion is OVER.

[dave hall]

When I bought the new 45-70 load from Hornady I could careless if it had a point on it or not.I don't RELOAD maybe someday.I was glad that some ammo company had the balls to put out a 45-70 load with this kind proformance.I was sick of having to pick from the play it safe loads every buddy else has.I know why there loaded that way,but people with newer 45-70 anything should have more to pick from.Thanks Hornady.The 450 is cool,but it's not the 45-70.Dave. This is my 2 cents.

[1marty]

When I hunt with my win 30-30 (made in 1960) I use the fed 150 gr. It's soft recoil and I hunt in heavy woods in which the shots are not greater than 50 yards; bought a box of the new hornady few months ago; recoil was twice as much and with these 63 year old eyes I can't even see the target with iron sights at 100 yards; call me old fashion but I'll stick with the fed 150

[Buckskin]

Don't know why the 300 yard numbers are ignored here.

[bgrdnr]

Don't know why the 300 yard numbers are ignored here.

Because most of us that routinely hunt out to 300 yards already have a rifle with dramatically better ballistics than the 30-30, regardless of what the Hornady delivers.  I would never consider leaving the 270 at home and use the 30-30 out to those distances.    If you want to use the 30-30 out that far, have fun and good luck.  I hope the deer don't suffer from non-fatal wounds because of that choice.

[cam69conv]

Ok...Let me clarify something...I have not nor would I say that I would use the 30/30 out to 300...All Im saying is that the performance has been greatly improved and is now an even BETTER round for what it was intended for...a 200 yard max weapon for deer...The increased BC is giving it a flatter trajectory and because of the BC as well the increased DOWNRANGE velocities are giving it more impact weight. Now granted the Numbers are there for it to be somewhat effective at 300....But I personally wouldnt feel comfortable at that range with a 30/30 even though it does show Plenty of kenetic energy at 300 to drop a deer I just personally would try it..These numbers arent just generated from a computer....They are chronied at that range then the kenetic energy is calculated at that range from the speed and weight of the bullet. Several have done penetration tests on wet paper and the penetration of this new round is quite a bit more at 100 than the standard rounds. The reason I say that this round is greatly improved is simply because it HAS been...Numbers dont lie..and Other tests have shown it as well...Again...All I said is this round has been improved for what its for...With Flatter trajectories and greater impact weight its a better bullet...No arguing with that

[Buckskin]

Because most of us that routinely hunt out to 300 yards already have a rifle with dramatically better ballistics than the 30-30, regardless of what the Hornady delivers.  I would never consider leaving the 270 at home and use the 30-30 out to those distances.    If you want to use the 30-30 out that far, have fun and good luck.  I hope the deer don't suffer from non-fatal wounds because of that choice.

Granted if I have a choice I would use my 330 RUM at 300 yds.  But if you have done it on paper at 300 yds with the 30/30, you know the yardage of the shot, you know how to account for the shot - it should be no difference to the shooter or the deer.  To me 300 yds really isn't that tough of a shot and I would feel completely confident using any gun that I know can get there and do damage. 

FYI your 270 is in the same class as the 30/30 w/ the Hornady's at 300 yds. 

150 nosler partition sighted at 100yds drops 12.5" w/ 1734ft.lbs at 300yds.  Not a lot of difference to the 160gr Hornady stated above  (15" and 1699ft.lbs).

[bgrdnr]

150 nosler partition sighted at 100yds drops 12.5" w/ 1734ft.lbs at 300yds.  Not a lot of difference to the 160gr Hornady stated above  (15" and 1699ft.lbs).

Uh, you might want to check your facts and figures before you make statements like that Buck,  the energy is actually on 1025 ft/lb on the Hornady.  The velocity is 1699 ft/sec.   Note:  If you are looking at the ballistics table in Peterson's 2007 Hunting magazine, then don't you think is interesting that their listing for energy of the Hornady is:  2046, 1643, 1304, 1699, N/A  for muzzle, 100, 200, 300, 400 yards, respectively.  How in the hell does this 'magic' bullet gain energy from 200 to 300 yards.   physically impossible.

The 270 is not in the same league as the 30-30.  The energy of 130gr Noslers is 2705, 2310, 1965, 1665, 1400  for the same distances.   Bullet drop of both calibers with a 200yrd zero is -6.5" for the .270 and -12.1" for the 30-30.  I see a difference there in drop and 50% increase in energy at 300yrds.

   And keep in mind that the Hornady numbers are based on a 24" barrel.  Unless you have a new XLR, no one will get those listed energy levels and bullet drop from the typical 20" barrel.  It will definitely be lower. 

I am not arguing that the Hornady bullet and their binary powder system is a significant improvement.  It's just not for me.  It does not perform well in my 336 and therefore will never be used by me at short or long ranges.

[cam69conv]

Care to read those Numbers again? It doesnt GAIN from 200 to 300 ...the Energy is (starting from muzzle)= 2046...100= 1643..200= 1304...300= 1025.... And as for the older 336...My .444 has a 24 inch barrel as well.

[bgrdnr]

Care to read those Numbers again? It doesnt GAIN from 200 to 300 ...the Energy is (starting from muzzle)= 2046...100= 1643..200= 1304...300= 1025.... And as for the older 336...My .444 has a 24 inch barrel as well.

Read what he said and what I said again.  I know it doesn't really gain.  That was what I said.  1699 ft/lb is what he stated and is what is printed in the 2007 annual from Peterson's Hunting.  A gain from 1304 to 1699 in going from 200 to 300 yards.  the 1025 I listed came directly from Hornady's brochure.   My point was that Buckskin had his values wrong.  Apparently my sarcasm wasn't clear.

As for the barrel length, all the normal current model 336's in 30-30 have 20" barrels, except for the XLR.  check www.marlinfirearms.com if you don't believe me.  Mine is 20".  I don't know when marlin set 20" as their benchmark, and have no knowledge of Winchester's past models.  Again, the point is to not be fooled by their marketing if you don't have a 24" barrel.  Their current .444 is 22", but we aren't talking about that caliber here.

[cam69conv]

Ahh Ok...I dont typicly look for sarcasm on here so no it wasnt...As for the figures I posted all were taken directly from Hornady as well.