Author Topic: Why I won't own a Browning rifle (Read 12677 times)

Buckskin · « **on:** December 12, 2006, 08:15:27 AM »

What is with that insane safety mechanism on the browning rifles. You have to take it off safe to open the bolt to unload or load your gun??? Please tell me how this is a good idea. I have a Buddy that almost shot a hole in his truck because of that, gun went off while unloading. I can't imagine how many times that has happened. Cold fingers can do funny things around a trigger.

flintlock · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:21:37 AM »

Tang safety Rugers are the same, and older 700s as well...

Learn not to put your finger into the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot....

You are right, guns can be dangerous, as well as cars, chainsaws, hammers, step ladders etc...You can even choke on a hotdog....

Trick is to know how to use them properly.....

hardertr · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:38:49 AM »

My Savage has the same thing..kind of. There is a TINY spot just between safe and fire that allows you to open the bolt. It won't fire in that position, but it sure is hard to find on cold days or with gloves on.

Sure is hard to beat the old cross-bolt safety.

Buckskin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:42:44 AM »

Yeah no kidding you need to use them properly. But that doesn't explain the logic or lack of it behind this safety. With your reasoning why even put a safety on it. I don't know about your chainsaw, but mine has a brake on it and the chain stops when I let off the gas.

dontstrokeme · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2006, 11:44:03 AM »

Why was there a loaded gun in the truck? I thought that Washington was being redundant by making the law that says no loaded guns in the truck. I have had no problem with my A-bolt. I think that it is one of the best. I just bought a Rem 700 and am getting rid of it within a week because the safety is out of reach and is too noisey. My hand is plenty bit as I am 6'9" and about 280lbs, but it isn't comfortably or acessable. The A-bolt is very quiet with a finger on top of it.

Joe Oakes

Gregory · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2006, 02:57:40 PM »

Quote from: Buckskin on December 12, 2006, 08:15:27 AM

What is with that insane safety mechanism on the browning rifles. You have to take it off safe to open the bolt to unload or load your gun??? Please tell me how this is a good idea. I have a Buddy that almost shot a hole in his truck because of that, gun went off while unloading. I can't imagine how many times that has happened. Cold fingers can do funny things around a trigger.

While I think a three position safety would be a nice improvement on a Browning (like Savage has) I think the more important issue is your Buddy needs to re-acquaint himself with some safety rules:
http://www.wagc.com/10comm.html

Specifically:
1. Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
3. Don't rely on your gun's "safety". Treat every gun as if it can fire at any time.

Buckskin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2006, 05:41:58 AM »

First of all my Buddy was outside the truck not in it. Secondly, it was pointed in a safe direction, it didn't hit his truck or the guy with him. Just went off next to it. Again its not like he was trying to do this, it was an accident. It was meant to be an example, not for you guys to berate him as a careless hunter. It would seem as none of you have ever had something unintended happen in your lives. All I was asking is a reasonable explanation as to why it would seem to Browning to be safer to take the safety off while loading and unloading a weapon.

Also, I never noticed my 700 having a loud safety. You can do it silently if you need to.

Buckskin · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2006, 05:44:15 AM »

By the way, I do like there shotguns. My Citori and I will be widowing a few hen pheasants this afternoon. But I wonder why I can break my shotgun w/ the safety on???

darrell8937 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:02:31 PM »

One great thing about having so many diffrent products available, is you can choose. You can also write the company, urging them to change the design. I think they should change the design, but I am not the unconditional ruler of the Universe(YET). This has also haunted Remmington> With a major lawsuit! I own a Acera. Can be unloade with the safety on! Never owned a A-Bolt.

Buckskin · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2006, 03:21:00 AM »

I imagine a lawsuit is just a matter of time. Actually I bet they have had some already.

wncchester · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2006, 01:04:30 PM »

I don't know why that rifle went off while unloading but it is an illustration of the safety rules that tell us to never point a weapon at anything we shouldn't shoot and to keep our fingers off the trigger until it's time to shoot.

Can't help but wonder if the rifle's trigger had been "lightened" or had the creep adjusted out, maybe a bit too much.

Gregory · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2006, 01:17:53 PM »

Buckskin

You keep using the Remington rifle as an illustration of a safe design...do you know that Remington has had a problem with guns going off just by releasing the safety? Now that is a defective product in my mind.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/aacbsnewsrem700.htm

The Browning went off because your buddy "accidentally" had his finger on the trigger. The gun wasn't defective.

Buckskin · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2006, 05:27:18 AM »

Quote from: Gregory on December 14, 2006, 01:17:53 PM

Buckskin

You keep using the Remington rifle as an illustration of a safe design...do you know that Remington has had a problem with guns going off just by releasing the safety? Now that is a defective product in my mind.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/aacbsnewsrem700.htm

The Browning went off because your buddy "accidentally" had his finger on the trigger. The gun wasn't defective.

Yes I know that Remington had some issues with the trigger, that was a defect. And I know that Browning's issue is not a defect (never stated that), it is a design. And I know why my Buddy's gun went off, I'm sure it didn't go off by itself (never stated that). What I have been asking this whole thread that nobody has even tried to explain is why, yes why Browning thinks its a good idea to have the safety off when unloading and loading a gun. In my opinion the safety should only be off when you are going to shoot. And why aren't their shotguns the same way??

Ok let me ask you guys this, if you had the choice would you prefer that your gun has to be off-safe when loading and unloading or left on-safe during this.

Gregory · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2006, 01:18:56 PM »

Quote from: Buckskin on December 15, 2006, 05:27:18 AM

Ok let me ask you guys this, if you had the choice would you prefer that your gun has to be off-safe when loading and unloading or left on-safe during this.

Like I said about three posts ago:

I think a three position safety would be a nice improvement on a Browning (like Savage has)

tanoose · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2006, 03:02:14 PM »

If i had a choice yes i would prefer to have a safety on when unloading , but it wouldn't make me choose another manufacturer , if it didn't. I have a remington model 700 BDL for 35 years and i sent it out for the safety modification because i gave it to my 12 year old and i wanted him to have the new safety. But in the 35 years i used it i never had a problem as i never had my finger on the trigger when unloading the rifle. I have seen a couple of accidents among friends where there rifle or shotgun has gone off accidently and in every instance the gun went off due to there stupidity in keeping there finger on the trigger. Where still good friends but we dont hunt together any more . Unfortunitly there are alot oh hunters out there that are not using common sence, you know that thing thats not that common among some.Just the other day i overheard some hunters in the gun shop saying they always have the safety of when deer hunting so that there always ready. What does it take to take a safety off i just dont understand it.Five years ago when i brought my son for his hunter safety i sat in on the classes and saw many fathers dropping off there kids , maybe some of them should have stayed in to see what they have forgotten.

mnsig · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2006, 05:08:36 AM »

If you take the action out of the stock, the workings of the Browning safety are visible. It blocks the trigger, moves a pin up to block the striker and moves a pin up to lock the bolt handle down. I would think that a gunsmith could remove the bolt lock without altering the other parts of the safety if that is what you are looking for.

Buckskin · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2006, 04:57:24 AM »

Quote from: mnsig on December 17, 2006, 05:08:36 AM

If you take the action out of the stock, the workings of the Browning safety are visible. It blocks the trigger, moves a pin up to block the striker and moves a pin up to lock the bolt handle down. I would think that a gunsmith could remove the bolt lock without altering the other parts of the safety if that is what you are looking for.

Thats what I would do, but its not what I was asking for. Just some sort of an explanation of why it would be designed that way. And a secondary question which I thought of later, as why their shotguns wouldn't have a similar safety?

I think I'm going to give up on this question, because nobody seems to have any response. Point proven I quess.

Gregory · « **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2006, 04:03:04 PM »

Quote from: Buckskin on December 18, 2006, 04:57:24 AM

Thats what I would do, but its not what I was asking for. Just some sort of an explanation of why it would be designed that way.
I think I'm going to give up on this question, because nobody seems to have any response. Point proven I quess.

I don't want a gun where the bolt is not locked when loaded and on safe. I can live with the Browning as it is, I prefer that configuration rather than having to worry about the bolt opening when I carry it through brush. The three position safety, as I've stated, is my preference. The bolt is locked in one position, the bolt can be opened with the gun on safe in the middle position, and then off safe to fire. Given the choice of a two position safety with an unlocked bolt like the Remington, or a two position safety with the bolt locked, I'll take the Browning design over the Remington.
The only point you've proven is that you prefer the Remington style, and that's fine for you, but not me.

wis_sharpshooter · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2006, 04:48:00 PM »

The A-bolt is the only gun with this so called problem, I own an A-bolt, and yes I agree it would be safer to keep the gun on saftey while re loading, but I don't work for browning so I don't know why the do what they do. but I'm sure not going to let that stop me from buying another abolt, in fact the saftey postion is one of the big reasson I own an a-bolt, ruger and remington safteys just don't make sense to me, to akward to take it off saftey to shoot.

pastorp · « **Reply #19 on:** December 26, 2006, 02:42:34 PM »

Buckskin, if you want a explination call browning..

You won't get much sympathey from us over your friends mistake. Why don't you just drop it.

Byron

Buckskin · « **Reply #20 on:** December 27, 2006, 05:16:59 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on December 26, 2006, 02:42:34 PM

You won't get much sympathey from us over your friends mistake. Why don't you just drop it. Byron

Didn't ask for any, and I already did.

alwaysread · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2007, 01:51:45 AM »

Not made in America!

akr · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2007, 12:28:14 PM »

alwaysread---

you have tons of stuff now that's not made in America, and stuff that has parts from out of the country. Times have changed.

major257 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2007, 08:48:06 PM »

One benefit to the bolt being locked while on safe is that while hunting in the brush or carrying anywhere the bolt cannot come open when bumped. This is a complaint that I have had with many bolt actions that I have owned. With the way the safety operates the bolt is always closed when you take the safety off. This is an excellent safety feature. Most of us learned to hunt with old lever action rifles with nothing but half cock safeties. Which brings to mind the other lever that did have a rifle safety, the savage model 99. The lever on that gun couldn't be opened with the safety on. The truth is that people should be more familiar with their firearms before they get out there and hunt with them under less than ideal conditions. If you have a safety that you think is perfect and can take out the human error factor please market it.

darrell8937 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 26, 2008, 03:33:51 AM »

One word! "Mauser" Three postion safety,, left,, fire, center, safe and bolt opens, right, locked and safe. If you have ever fought you way thru the Maine Bruch Pile,, Locking the bolt closed makes a lot of sence,, Ok 38 words, crap, now 42.. I am confused!

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** September 26, 2008, 03:36:33 AM »

The only safety a gun needs is the one between your ears.

I won't own a Browning because they are made in Japan.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2008, 03:44:31 AM »

unsafe fingers are so hot or cold !
the best way to idoit proof a gun is not let an idoit have it in the first place !
LEARN THE MANUAL OF ARMS FOR THE WEAPON YOU HAVE AND OBEY IT !
if the safty bothers you don't chamber a round until you are ready to shoot , unload thru. the floor plate or drop the mag !
I know some one is thinking they may decide not to fire , or they rechamber for a follow up shot that is not needed , consider line 2 and three as to which applies .

ORsouthpaw · « **Reply #27 on:** September 26, 2008, 05:58:49 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on September 26, 2008, 03:44:31 AM

unsafe fingers are so hot or cold !
the best way to idoit proof a gun is not let an idoit have it in the first place !
LEARN THE MANUAL OF ARMS FOR THE WEAPON YOU HAVE AND OBEY IT !

Yep! I believe that any discharge of a rifle that's unintended and not the result of a manufacturing flaw is directly caused by poor safety habits. "Never put your finger on or near the trigger until your ready to shoot"

As for the comment about Browning not being made in America. So your saying that you won't own Nikon Bino's either, OR Howa and Weatherby rifles? How about Sako Rifles? What about Leupold? Look at where all of their green ring bino's are made... China. How about Swarovski? Also not made in America. I always try to buy American made first also but not if it mean compromising fit and function or overall quality.

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2008, 06:11:39 AM »

you won't own Nikon Bino's either, OR Howa and Weatherby rifles? How about Sako Rifles? What about Leupold? Look at where all of their green ring bino's are made... China. How about Swarovski? Also not made in America.

Correct!

wncchester · « **Reply #29 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:42:57 AM »

"One benefit to the bolt being locked while on safe is that while hunting in the brush or carrying anywhere the bolt cannot come open when bumped."

Correct. THAT'S why the bolt is locked when the safety is on. And it sure isn't hard to operate correctly.

Anyone wanting to limit their purchases to what's made in the US will have to forget TVs, CD/DVD/Tape/MP3 players, dry cell batteries, cell phones, most hand and power and machine tools, most small kitchen and home appliances, nuts and bolts hardware, autos, hunting and fishing equipment, clothes, boots, optics, cameras, much of our food, furniture, oil, etc.

Other than that, most anything we want would be available.