Author Topic: Which rifle to buy? (Read 3103 times)

elmerdeer · « **on:** December 11, 2006, 02:58:23 PM »

Sako 75 finlite ss or Kimber or a rem700, I want quality with as many goodies I can get without going custom, and in 7mm rem mag. Which I dont think Kimber offers?
Thanks
Elmer

shilo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2006, 03:35:01 PM »

I've been thinking about a Kimber also. Looked at 5 of them and they all had a very high level of workmanship to them. It is odd that Kimber doesn't offer the 7 mag. I think they probably will.

270Handiman · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2006, 02:41:09 PM »

How about a Tikka T3 Lite SS - 7mm Mag? It will shoot as good as a Sako (same barrels) and better than a factory Rem 700. Now, if your talking Kimber then by all means, proceed sir! Unfortunately, I they don't yet offer a 7 mag, but they are offering both 300 and 338 Win Mags, as well as the Short Mags (you could get a 7mm WSM!)

Just my 2 cents,

270

gould · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2006, 02:44:44 PM »

I would take a Browning over the sako and the kimbers are really nice two. I don't think the Remington isn't even on the same page as all the rest. I like the Sako also I just don't like the stocks. I say the Browning becouse they are the best shooting guns I have ever shot and owend.

The Sodbuster · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2007, 11:14:06 AM »

Elmerdeer, so which rifle did you end up getting? I'd lean towards the Sako myself, but I'd doubt you'd go wrong with a Kimber either. Of course, I don't own either one.

Val · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2007, 10:30:07 AM »

I'm just wondering, on what data base does one conclude that a Tikka will shoot more accurately than a Remington 700?

nofun1 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2007, 05:42:37 PM »

Hey Val I believe its Personal preference.db or opinion.xls Its hard to imagine a company staying in business very long if they couldn't make moa guns

Brithunter · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2007, 12:34:50 AM »

Well it could be that Remington has been producing many rifles with poor quality finish and workmanship. Just read the posts and try other sites as well. Remington's specs say that 3" grouping at 100 yards is perfectly acceptable. Some folks are still stuck in a time warp with rose tinted specs strapped to their heads and cannot accept that Rems quality has fallen way down

. Whilst I am not enamoured with Berretta products, Tikka does give and accuracy guarantee, and of course Tikka is wholly owned by Berretta now and the T3 seems to be a product of this. I happen to think it was a backwards step and the 690 series of Tikka's were better

but then I don't like the Sako 75 much either especially when comparing it to the old Hunter, Forrester and Vixen models.

However all the time folks keep buying them why would the comapny need to improve quality?

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2007, 01:36:51 AM »

I shoot and fool with Remingtons all the time. I've never seen one with poor fit and finsih. I've never seen one that wouldn't shoot sub-MOA right out of the box. The M700 is a great rifle (it killed the per-64 M70) and you can't go wrong with a M700. Consider the .30-06.

Brithunter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:53:56 AM »

I suggest that you check your history ................................... if you do you will find that penny pinching acountants killed the pre 64 Winchester and not Remington. Winchester made the mistake and Remington is doing the same that as they had such a market share they could pull the wool over the eyes of their loyal customers and the same loyal customers would buy not matter how poor the product. You are a prime example

. You won't hear a bad word about Remington depsite the fact that loads of other customers are deserting them in droves due to shoddy work and guns.

I wonder how many M700's you have or have had?

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2007, 03:05:32 AM »

I've shot and owned quite a few. I currently own 2, and will own no other bolt action centerfire rifle. I don't want any foreign made guns.

The M700 killed the pre-64 Model 70, and Winchester for good reason. It's a better rifle..

Prophet · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2007, 04:05:41 AM »

Get the Kimber. Try 270WSM, I think it will compare closely with the 7 Mag or go with the 7 WSM. BTW, I've owned 6 Remingtons and I have been disappointed with all one. It was a model 7 from their custom shop. I don't think I will ever consider a Rem. again. If you want the Rem. price the Tikka is a much better gun than Rem. I have two Kimbers, two Tikkas and a CZ.

jro45 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2007, 04:22:19 AM »

My 7mm is a Rem 700. I had a 26" shilen barrel put on and it shoots like a dream. It is very accurate. Excellent rifle.

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2007, 04:52:31 AM »

The Rem. 700 is a good rifle. It didn't kill the Pre-64 because it was better, it helped kill it because it was much cheaper to produce, and the accountants at Winchester tried to make the Model 70 in the same price bracket by reducing production costs and material costs. Winchester fans didn't take to the idea, that's the reason that the new controlled round feeds in the 1990's came to be.

I've had both rifles, and I've had good and bad examples of each. I will say that I've had better experiences with the Model 70 out of the box than with the Remington, and I've had 5 of each, I believe.

People sing the praises of the 700 due to military and police use. I've been told by more than one former armorer in the Marines that they picked the 700 because it is the easiest to accurize to their specs. It's just a tubular reciever, and with a lathe, you can re-true the receiver until you run out of room. Can't do that with a model 70. The last "survey" given to the snipers themselves resulting in this: They want a tang safety, short action, non-Remington action, and a lot of them want a semi-auto to boot. Will they get it? Who knows?

If I had to pick, I'd take a Kimber in 7 mag (if they made it) over the others, I think. Since they don't, I'd take a Kimber in 30-06. It depends on whether you want portability or shootability. If you aren't going to pack it alot, I'd forget the Finnlight and get the regular Sako. My last 3 Remington were all a disappointment, from a $850 LTR in .308 that wouldn't shoot anything under 1.5" to a couple of ADLs.

Grubbs · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2007, 05:50:10 AM »

Swampman, you've never seen a Rem 700 that wouldn't shoot sub MOA out of the box......you obviously never saw the 6 I had. None of the 6 would do it without either/or a trigger job, glass bedding, or both. On the other hand the 3 Tikkas I have all shoot sub MOA out of the box with factory ammo....no bedding jobs, barrel jobs, or trigger jobs.

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2007, 07:31:38 AM »

I guess you have really bad luck. I don't buy anything foreign made if I can help it. Remington is the only centerfire bolt gun I will own.

Zachary · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:38:48 AM »

All three are good guns. I own all 3.

Each has its pro and cons.

The Remington is a bit heavier, but it has (depending on model) a 24" barrel, which I like on Magnum cartridges. (I actually prefer 26" on magnums). Trigger is too heavy out of the box, but can be fixed with a good gunsmith.

The Sako Finnlight is light, but has a 22" barrel - too short for my tastes. Otherwise, just get a Sako 75. Either way, the trigger is excellent, as well as overall quality.

Kimber Montana arguably has the best fit and finish (although I had an issue with its bolt, which Kimber fixed right away!). Everything seems to be match in this gun - trigger, barrel, etc. It also has a full 24" barrel for mangum cartridges, which I like better than the Sako Finnlight.

For the money, the Tikka is the best value - in this high quality class.

All three are good guns. My advice is hold them in your hands and see which one fits you best.

Zachary

Grubbs · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2007, 11:51:11 AM »

Swampman, you "don't buy anything foreign made...." I guess you do not own a television, or have a stereo in your car then.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:06:36 PM »

You have to read the whole sentence.

"I don't buy anything foreign made if I can help it."

Putting Americans out of jobs, and closing down plants that support entire towns isn't way up on my list of things I like to help do.

I'm not interested in foreign made guns, or knives.....period!

I personally believe the Remington 700 is the best production bolt action rifle ever produced. All myths repeated about them aside, they just can't be beat.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2007, 04:09:42 AM »

I agree with Swampman here...the Remington is also my first choice. I have never had one that wasn't a great shooter and never seen one with bad fit and finish. I have owned at least 30 and maybe 50 by now...yes, too many to remember.....I trade off a lot of rifles too. I get new rigs every year and have been shooting for almost 40. The Remington triggers, once adjusted for weight, creap and over travel, work extremely well and I like the width of their triggers (Sako trigger are far too thin for my liking). Remington actions are the basis for the majority of custom made rifles. They are also used by the police and military. Why? Because they are strong, easy to accurize and they simply work. They are also available in a variety of styles and stocks to meet the demands of just about anyone. They are priced reasonably and that makes them a great value for the money.

I have also owned Ruger, Winny, Sako, Weatherby and Tikka rifles. I like things about all of them but my my overall favorite by far is Remington. Sales figures show that they are very popular too so I guess it isn't just Swampman and I that like them.

BTW, the comment by a poster about an LTR not shooting well sounds very unsual. Mine came in at .4 MOA right at the range as I was shooting targets to sight it in and that was without any reload accuracy development or match bullets.

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 08, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »

Yes, I know that an LTR that doesn't shoot is very unusual, but I had it, even if it was the only one. I sent that thing back to Remington and they said everything was within spec, but they didn't shoot it, which I found unusual in itself, since I sent it back complaining about the accurarcy?

So, not knowing what else to do, I decided I'd let a professional shoot it. I called an fellow that I know that shoots Highpower competition, and is a sniper for a county SWAT team. We took the rifle to the range with a variety of factory ammo, and some of his match handloads. His rifle is an Iron Brigage Armory custom job, cost him about $6500, and his handloads shoot 3/4" or less from the bench.....at 300 yds. He also has an LTR (he's the reason I bought it) and it shoots about 1/4" at 100yds with his handloads for it, and just under 3/4" or better with just about any factory load. Only mentioned this to note that this guy KNOWS how to shoot, and is very serious about it.

He could not get my LTR to post a 1" group to save his life. He tried everything we could think of. New scope, new mounts, different amounts of torque on the action screws, we tried tip pressure, we even put my action in his LTR stock and his action in my LTR stock to see if it made a difference. No dice, nada, zero, ziltch.

He is also a FFL dealer, so he sent the gun back to Remington, with a detailed letter stating what was tried. Remington once again returned the rifle, saying that they had fired it and it was within spec. There was no documentation stating what ammo they had fired, nor any telling us just what "spec" was. They did send the rifle back without the action screws, so we knew that the rifle had been taken apart at least. After having them send new screws, we shot it some more, and it still was not worth a hoot. We finally decided that the barrel must be bad, as just after 5 shots, the copper in the barrel was horrible.

At this point, a couple of hundred rounds had been put through the rifle, and there was no improvement at all. I couldn't sell it in good faith to someone, so I parted it out and managed to get alot of my money back.

I loved everything about the rifle except how it shot. I keep looking at the LTR line, and I want to try another one, but I can't afford to run another $1000 experiment. This is also what soured me on Remington's customer service.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #21 on:** February 08, 2007, 10:44:15 AM »

Boy, that really sucks! It obviously was the barrel but that is unusual for sure. It sounds like you have had the same kind of issues I have had with General Motors products....I have owned three, each one a dog in its' own right. After dealing with those guys for a few years, I switched to Toyota back in the late '80's and have been a happy camper ever since. I have never had the pleasure of using Remington's service since I have never had a bad one. So I cannot relate to your experience. Furthermore, it is much easier up here to just take a problem rifle to a local gunsmith rather than deal with customs issues and permits.

I also had a Remington 700 Police in .308 and it shot less than .5 MOA right from the box....I did not like the very rough parkerized finish though. I also prefer a stock without the palm swell, hence I prefer the LTR.

On another note just to show how good Remington's have shot for me....I just got a new Remington 700 SPS SS in 30-06 a month ago. I took it to the range last week and it shot 3/4" @ 100 yards using factory 180's! This was during the sight in process! Boy, I was impressed. They just seem to work well for me no matter what I do and the rifle was a bargain. I was going to buy a Remington 700 XCR but at 50% more cost, I could not justify the extra expense. I should add that the new R-3 recoil pad works very well...the recoil felt like a 270 using 130's.

By the way KYELKHUNTER3006....I am impressed by your character....I mean for not dumping the rifle on someone else. I wish everyone in this world had some of that....the world would be a better place.

Regards

EE

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 08, 2007, 10:59:20 AM »

My Remington experience has probably been 50-50 over the years, including all of the products, guns, knives, etc. I alway like the looks of their stuff, and it all usually handles well. Like everything else, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. I've learned that I am usually the exception to the rule.....don't even get me talking about Leupold, just read some of my posts in the Optics area, but I've never had a bad Bushnell or Simmons product. Does that make any sense?

Oh well.............

Thanks for the comment on character, I appreciate that. I won't dump a junk gun on someone because I've had it done to me, and it's well, I'll say it's indecent. Let's face it, most of us have to scrimp and save to get our stuff, and when someone abuses your trust in that way, it's the same as stealing.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #23 on:** February 08, 2007, 11:03:27 AM »

I have lots of issues with Leupold as well...I don't go there anymore, especially for what they cost. I now have Bushnell Elite and Zeiss Conquest scopes....they have both been great thus far. Good hunting.

Brithunter · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2007, 10:16:50 AM »

Swampman,

I cannot fault you fro trying to support your country

but am sad to say you will soon probably not be able to buy anything which is wholly American made. Business seems determined to undermine manufacturing in countries like America, the same thing has been going on here in the UK

. The "Great God Excessive Profit" must be worshipped at all cost

Doesniper · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:15:54 AM »

Might as well throw in my .02 cents worth. I'm a big Rem. fan, most of my bolt guns are Rem. I also have owned several other brands. The Rem. 700 is not the greatest bolt gun on the market. I've found the Tikka bolt guns to be far better than the Rem. 700. The trigger is easy to adjust, the barrels clean like match barrels, and the actions are CNC machined. Like Zachary said, best deal for the money. I think it's great that someone wants to buy Americian as much as possible, but if you have never owned a gun from another country, how can you compare?

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:22:20 AM »

I've owned guns from other countries before. I don't anymore.

Eagle Eye · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:25:49 AM »

Same here....hard to beat a Remington.

jro45 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2007, 06:05:51 AM »

I own alot of Remingtons and wouldn't have it any other way.

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #29 on:** March 16, 2007, 09:31:19 AM »

Better late than never i guess. I own several differnt rifles and several different calibers. In my opinion, the Remington 700s are the best. I never beleive accuracy cliams online. If i did, i would think 9 out of 10 guns sold shoot sub MOA. I know this is not true as i am not an idot. I base accuracy on what i see at my gun club, and its a large one so i see alot of rifles. I will tell you this, which i have learned from experience. Remington 700s are as acurate as any gun makers products and more so than than most. They feed as smooth or smoother than the competitions rifles and extract with less problems than any other system i have seen. J have yet to talk to a compitent gunsmith that cannot take a factory remington trigger and tune it to 2.5-3.5lb crisp clean trigger pull. The fact that they are made in the U.S is just icing on the cake.

I beleive the remington 700 has been to succesful for its own good. It has been around so long, its no longer cool to own. They are common, and not so flashy. Buy when quality is on the menu, the 700 is the safest bet of all.