Author Topic: 338-06 imp. vs. 338 win (Read 13905 times)

shilo · « **on:** December 07, 2006, 03:33:38 PM »

What is the velocity difference between the two? Are 338-06 imp velocities about equal to 338 wim mag starting velocities? Kicking around some ideas for another rifle for out west. Am considering a 338-06 imp which would require a rifle to be rebarreled. Then got to thinking, why not just buy a 338 win and use mild loads? These mild loads would probably be the equivelant of full bore 338-06 imp loads. Either one of these rounds use the same length action, so there's no weight advantage one way or the other. The 338-06 imp I would probably want with a 24" barrel anyway. So why not just down load a 338 win? I know the 338 win is going to use more powder than the 338-06 when loaded to the same velocity (when possible) 200gr bullet @ 2700fps. And when loaded to the same velocity the 338 win will have slightly more recoil than the 338-06, but is it enough to notice a difference? And if I ever wanted to I could always load the 338 win up to higher velocities an option not available with the 338-06. Am I looking at this right?

Messer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2006, 04:04:52 AM »

I think you are looking at it right - if you have to buy a rifle for both options, buying the 338 Win. Mag. makes sense.

If you already have a long action rifle with a worn barrel, or one in a caliber you have no use for, then you can make a case for the 338-06.

Take care,
Bob S.

nasem · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2006, 02:09:58 PM »

There is a few things I believe in and a few that... just don't make sense to me....

One of those that doen't really make much sense to me is the 338-06.... why oh why or even the new 338 federal... why oh why would you want one of those when the 338 win mag has been around the late 1950s. Don't like the recoil of the 338 win mag ? no problem, load it down, and if that doesn't do it, load it with "low" recoil powders.

I know some people here might try to argue with me about this, but I really don't see the 338-06 or the 338 federal solving any problems that the 338 win mag couldn't solve.

shilo · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2006, 04:06:46 PM »

The other advantage the going the 338 win route has is the readily available supply of brass and reloading dies. The 338-06imp would require fireforming and an expensive die set. Also in a worst case if ammo became lost I could find 338 win and resight. Not an option with the other.

nasem · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2006, 03:47:57 AM »

thats another valid point...

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:37:21 AM »

While the 338-06 AI would indeed need fireforming..as would the 338 Scovill (another wc based on the 30-06 case...see Barnes reloading manual #3)...the 338-06 A-Square would not need fireforming...and is a SAMMI approved cartridge and is readily available.While one can't get full range for all 338 WM velocities out of it..You can get very close..and can be done to any bolt gun that is chambered to 30-06...Factory ammunition is with the correct headstamp by Nosler..and Connely and also Weatherby..Put in a 26" barrel and the velocities will be as good as the 338WM with the lighter bullets..160-180-200grainers...and within 100-150fps for the heavier bullets..I don't know that this is true or not...but..I've been told by several folks with the 338 WM..that the reduced loads usually aren't as accurate...so..I can't really give a good comparison between the 2 at the same velocities..You could probably find 333WM ammo out where your hunting if need be..not so easy with the variants..If your handloading anyway...it won't really matter...and I don't think 100fps is going to matter much to what you hit with it..I have my 338-06 A-Square in a light single shot...and while not marked as the A-Square...that is what it is chambered for..

This is the 180grain Accubonds at 3050FPS..3 grains under max loads from the Hodgdons Annual using BL-C2 powder..

And this is the regualr Ballistic tips as I was sighting it in...3shots are under the penny..

It's a very nice round...that doesn't kick nearly as hard..nor use nearly as much powder...

Mac

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2006, 09:05:21 AM »

I would just get the 338 win mag. I have one and I have loaded it down and loaded it hot, both give me great accuracy. I just don't see any advantage that a 338-06 has.

Les Staley · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:41:55 PM »

338-06 holds five down, one up.. that is an advantage in some circles.. I for one have both, and wouldn't hesitate to use either one on elk, deer, bear, etc.. but then I like Springfields... some don't.. what ever blows yer hair back says I.... Les

Lone Star · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2006, 05:58:41 PM »

I have both and used them on Alaskan game. Frankly I didn't see much performance difference, but then I never shot a brownie with either of them. If I was in brown bear country I usually carried the .338 Mag, if not I took the .338-06. The Magnum certainly has the performance advantage if one keeps to sane pressures. You can load the smaller case to near .338 Mag performance, but only if you exceed reasonable pressures. Been there, tried that, got the ruptured case.

There is so little increase in case capacity going to the Improved version that it is hardly worth it - maybe 100 fps. You'd never notice it in the field. I believe that unless you wanted to use a rifle not suitable for the magnum case, the .338 Mag makes the most sense.

Quote

why oh why would you want one of those when the 338 win mag has been around the late 1950s.

Actually the .338-06 predates the .338 Mag by at least 15 years...kinda. It is virtually identical to the .333 OKH, which developed quite a following in the 1940s. Once the .338 was introduced it was eaiser to use .338" bullets, so the wildcat was renamed the .338-06.

.

Les Staley · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2006, 03:21:42 PM »

Case in point: I took a SS M70 Classic in 338 win mag to Alaska in Sept .. hunting Dall sheep with a guide.. safety dictates three in magazine, empty chamber.. took two shots at my ram running, finaly stopped at around 300 yds.. last shot in rifle took him thru the boiler room.. rifle empty.would have had two to spare with the 338-06... just food for thought... Les

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 22, 2006, 04:35:37 PM »

Make your first shot count.

I understand where you are coming from though.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #11 on:** December 22, 2006, 06:21:44 PM »

I built my first .338-06 in the late 70's, and built a couple more after that. I hunted all over Alaska for many years useing that cartridge and i've also used a .338 mag. a lot too. I've taken browns, moose and many other big animials useing both cartridges and for me i figured i didn't need the extra power the mag. has...

The advantages of the 06 over the mag. for me are.... .336-06 holds more ammo, works better in a 22" bbl. that i prefer, and has less recoil makeing it easier to shoot. Those are the main things that drove me to build an .338-06 even though i carried a .338 mag. quite a bit before that.

About that 22" bbl.... When your crawling through the alders looking for a brown that someone else has shot, you will appreciate that shorter length!

DM

skippermdj · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2006, 10:06:24 AM »

As far as velocity difference between 338-06 and an "improved" 338-06, there isn't going to be much difference. The case capacity of the 338-06 is about 73.4 grains of water. The biggest "improved" case I can find holds 76.7 grains of water, a difference of about 3.2%. Using the 4-to-1 rule of thumb, the increased case capacity should deliver around 0.8% or less than 25FPS of additional velocity using the same pressure and barrel length. Of course, you can push pressures WAY up and get lots more velocity, but...

I currently have a 338-06 Ackley with a 25" Douglas #5 barrel. In hindsight, the hassle with fireforming cases before I can begin to work up loads and the feeding problems from the steep-shouldered and straight-sided case was WAY too much relative to the 25fps benefit and whatever improved case life I'm getting.

If you look at the Barnes manual #3 and compare the 338-06 to the 338 Hawk/Scovill, you will see that the un-improved round is always within 50FPS and sometimes is faster than the improved round. I'd guess that the "improvement" is less than their margin of error for measuring pressure and velocity.

I'm rebarreling my 338-06AI to a shorter, lighter 22" barrel in 338-06 and looking for a little less than 2700FPS with the Barnes 210grain TSX bullet. It will be sesveral poinds lighter than my big boomer and hit harder than my .308 mountain rifle at typical hunting ranges. So, in my case, it fills a gap in the battery.

YMMV

Zachary · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2006, 06:16:50 PM »

I don't reload, so that's in part why I have a .338 Win Mag. However, even if I did not reload, I would still get the .338 Win Mag. When hunting, you really won't notice that much of a difference in recoil.

Zachary

Drilling Man · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2006, 06:25:54 PM »

Quote

When hunting, you really won't notice that much of a difference in recoil.

I agree, but i wouldn't hunt with a rifle that i don't practise with, let alone hunt dangerous game with that rifle!!! The last tihing i need is a rifle that i'm not comdortable takeing to the range and shooting at different ranges on a regular basis...

Guys that don't shoot there big game rifle regularly was the reason i was in the alders looking for that wounded bear in the first place...

DM

nasem · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2006, 06:39:45 PM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on December 24, 2006, 06:25:54 PM

Quote
When hunting, you really won't notice that much of a difference in recoil.

I agree, but i wouldn't hunt with a rifle that i don't practise with, let alone hunt dangerous game with that rifle!!! The last tihing i need is a rifle that i'm not comdortable takeing to the range and shooting at different ranges on a regular basis...

Guys that don't shoot there big game rifle regularly was the reason i was in the alders looking for that wounded bear in the first place...

DM

This is such a true statment ESPECIALLY for long range hunting (if one ever needed).... I know a full load 225 gr 338 RUM is flatter than, say a 338 win mag or even a 180 grain 30-06, but does this mean I can practice long range shooting with it more than the '06 ? nah...

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2006, 06:57:23 PM »

Quote from: Zachary on December 23, 2006, 06:16:50 PM

I don't reload, so that's in part why I have a .338 Win Mag. However, even if I did not reload, I would still get the .338 Win Mag. When hunting, you really won't notice that much of a difference in recoil.

Zachary

Does this mean you REALLY, REALLY don't reload?

I knew what you meant, but I could not resist.

Merry Christmas

shilo · « **Reply #17 on:** December 25, 2006, 05:28:34 AM »

I'm looking at the Kimber rifles. Winchester style action and safty, which I am very used to and like. The 8400 Classic (26" wood stock) weighs 7lbs 4oz and the 8400 Montana (26" synthetic stock) weighs 6lbs 13oz. So the weight advantage of the 338-06 really isn't an issue. These rifles are about as light as I'd want in 338.

deltecs · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2007, 07:47:44 PM »

Interesting question. I think one is beating a pretty dead horse either way. The 338 Win has achieved classic status for downing game. The 338-06 has similar ballistics to that of .333 Rimless Nitro, which has classic status in Africa as a medium bore for plains game and could be used in a pinch against DG. The same can be said for the 338 Win. I'd chose the 338-06 A Square for the ease in handloading and efficient use of powder burn. You can carry more rounds in the firearm normally, and perceived recoil is less. I don't think that has an effect on hunting though. I'm too excited by the game to think about recoil and after I've shot, it didn't matter. The .338 Win rounds are probably more common if your ammo got lost and that is a favorable condition. The ballistic advantage of a 22" barrel versus a 24" barrel are not really worth debate between the 2 calibers. However, the efficient use of a 22" barrel in the tag alders after a wounded bear is an advantage worthy of note. When that happens, I prefer to have a 9.3x62 in my hands. It hits harder than either with a 22" barrel at close range. Pick the one you like and go hunting with it. You can have confidence with either on the game you plan to hunt.
Greg

Zachary · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2007, 09:18:54 AM »

Quote from: Drilling Man on December 24, 2006, 06:25:54 PM

Quote
When hunting, you really won't notice that much of a difference in recoil.

I agree, but i wouldn't hunt with a rifle that i don't practise with, let alone hunt dangerous game with that rifle!!! The last tihing i need is a rifle that i'm not comdortable takeing to the range and shooting at different ranges on a regular basis...

Guys that don't shoot there big game rifle regularly was the reason i was in the alders looking for that wounded bear in the first place...

DM

I understand your point and totally agree. However, at the range, I always use recoil reducing devices (i.e. recoil shoulder pads (towels), etc.). As such, there is hardly any recoil when I shoot at the bench. In addition, I have learned to better control my flinching. As such, when it comes time to hunt in the field, given that my practice at the bench does not remind me of any bad recoil, I don't necessarily expect it in the filed, and I can thus shoot it just as accurately.

Zachary