Author Topic: H&R Ultra Hunter .308 Accuracy problems (Read 4290 times)

northjdr · « **on:** October 09, 2006, 07:32:24 AM »

I'm frustrated with the accuracy of my month-old H&R .308. With about 200 rounds down range I am having difficulty getting 5 shot groups off bags smaller than 4 MOA@100yrds. The typical (but not always) pattern is this. The first 2 shot might be within 1". Then next shot might be 2" high. Next shot might be 2" low. So, in a total of 10 shots I might have 5 or 6 within 1.5" with another 2 or 3 high by 2" and 2 or 3 low by about 2". Vertical stringing seems to be more of a problem than horizontal. I am not an expert shooter but I have no problem getting sub-moa groups from my Savage .223 or my H&R Mach2. I have a new, securely mounted 3X9 Nikon Monarch scope. I don't usually fire more than 2 shots without waiting at least five minutes to cool down barrel. I clean religiously and I've read the FAQ's on this site about making the gun more accurate. So far I've tried the O-ring floating on the forend (no better or worse). I've moved the rest position forward and back on the bags. It seems to like it over the chamber the best. I've used mostly good ammo. Blackhills 168gr & 175gr Match HP, Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr. I've also shot some cheaper 150grain Federal soft points. The trigger pull is about 5 lbs. I haven't done anything with the latch as I don't want to goof something up. But I try to close the gun with consistancy every time. I've varied from a light grip to a relatively heavy grip. Deer season is now 3 weeks away and I'm afraid to take a shot longer than about 150 yds with this gun. Am I wrong to expect better accuaracy with this inexpensive gun? Frustrated in Minnesota

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2006, 07:51:41 AM »

Welcome to GBO! Check to see if the latch has oil on it, one of the most common problems that H&R's gunsmiths see is oil on the latch which may cause inconsistent accuracy. Most of us store our rifles muzzle up, that allows the oil in and on the barrel to run down into the frame and on the latch and latch shelf. Make sure they're dry and oil free before you shoot. Some have reported that putting oil on the latch helped to improve accuracy, so that's always an option, but H&R recommends it to be dry.

Have you shot the rifle without the forend on? How's the barrel break open? I like mine to have just a little resistance when opening, so the barrel drops open by itself, but not loosely. If it's real tight, remove the forend spacer and flat sand the surface the fits against the forend, this will reduce the pressure the forend puts on the barrel and frame. If it's too loose, place a shim tween the spacer and forend, I use aluminum furnace tape, it's not expensive and it's impervious to weather, I cut it just a tad smaller than the spacer so it can't be seen.

Other options are to bed the forend, one easy method is with RTV silicone which is covered in the FAQ, but permanent bedding will work too.
Other possible issues are bad scope, ring or base problems, you'll know more once you've check the issues I've pointed out, don't assume the scope is not to blame, it happens.

A trigger job is also in your future if you want the best accuracy, not hard to do following the instructions in the FAQ, many novices here have done them with excellent results.

Hope this helps,

Tim

northjdr · « **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2006, 09:18:17 AM »

Thanks for the excellent ideas and for the welcome. What a great resource this site is.. I will try it with the forend off and use some gun scrubber to make sure the latch is oil free. I might swap scopes with my NEF M2 (I have a Nikon Prostaff on the M2 and I've done return to zero testing have had no problems with that scope) My gun opens fine, with gravity, but not too loosely. When I read between the lines of your answer, you seem to be saying that I should be able to get better accuracy out of this gun. Is 2moa reasonable or attainable if I can do my part? I do know that you often get what you pay for. If you think I can obtain this level of accuracy or better, then I'm willing to devote some time to the home amateur gunsmithing. If it's unreasonable for me to get at least this level of accuracy then I'd just rather sell it or trade it now than spend another $200 on ammo testing my fixes. Thanks again for your thoughts. JR

myarmor · « **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2006, 09:44:07 AM »

Let me be the 2nd to Welcome you to GrayBeards.
I, like many here, can feel your frusteration. We have almost all been there at some point or another. Here is another couple questions for ya...
-When you push the release button, and the barrel breaks open, does it happen to "fall" to one side or the other?
- How about when it's completely opened up, can you wiggle the barrel side to side?
A poor fit will destroy accuracy.
-How about the crown on the muzzle, and nicks or burrs?
-When you shoot do you pull all the way through the trigger to the end? So that after the round has fired off, and you release the trigger, you hear the little click of the transfer bar falling back into place.. a 5lb trigger is way more than I like, though I know of some people that shoot heavier triggers decently.
-All my Handis shoot their best with a fouled barrel, the fouling shots will be EVERYWHERE!!! So have you tried shooting 4 fouling shots..let the barrel cool... and then try grouping the next shots in sucession-not counting the first 4 shots out of a clean barrel?
The good news is that you are working with a Laminated stocked Handi. These are much easlier to fine tune, in my opinion.

Most Handi's that are tuned and many out of the box can reach 2" at 100yards easily.
-Aaron

E Rex B · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2006, 10:07:06 AM »

Northjdr,
Vertical stringing was cased by no oil on my Handi 223. When I oiled the lock up shelf the problem went away. These things all seem to be a little different. Let us know what worked for you.
Rex

coop2564 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2006, 10:46:37 AM »

I had simular problems with my 308 Most of my problems were with how I rested my forend on the sand bags. When I started resting right on top of the forend screw ever time my groups got more consistant. If I rest just a half inch infront of the screw my group grows to 4'' or more. It doesn't seem to matter if I go back of screw but I cant go in front of screw also pulling thru the trigger instead of squeezing it helped also. You need to hold the trigger thur the shot with these transfer bars. If I watch these things I get about 1.5'' avg groups.

Fred M · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2006, 11:53:30 AM »

northjdr
The accuracy problems you describe are caused by loose joints. That is the latch, the hinge pin seat, or insufficient latch compression spring pressure, gap in the standing breech.

Go to the FAQ and read about Accurizing the Handi rifle. Take one step at a time and eliminate the problem. Also check you scope mounting system and loose screws. My handi's shoot best with a fully bedded forearm with uplift pressure at the forearm tip.

With this system you can support your rifle anywhere on the forearm where it is convenient.

acloco · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2006, 12:34:47 PM »

Hmmm...sounds like my 204 Handi.

I bedded the receiver, as I used to have slop side to side. Locks up fine, but the barrle locks up in different places in the receiver, left to right. But, it has been raining off and on for the last couple of days....so no fun for me and my handi!

northjdr · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2006, 02:18:17 PM »

I'd be letting you all down if I didn't try to solve this problem so I'll try. I'll re-read your posts and try to take things a step at a time. Now, to answer some of your questions. When I open the action, it doesn't wobble (no side to side play). I can't feel any burrs or nicks in the crown but I'm not an expert at detecting these. I clean from the breech and work carefully. When I pull trigger I haven't concentrated on pulling through. I breath, hold it, gently apply pressure, concentrate on target, and get surprised by the boom. I'll try to remember to pull through. I've probably put 1500 rounds through my NEF Mach2 and I'm able to consistantly get 1 to 1.5 moa @ both 50 and 100 yrds. One reason I got the H&R .308 is that I thought that shooting the M2 would help me with my trigger pull on the .308. I haven't tried anything with the forearm except the o-ring floating. It didn't seem to make much of a difference. When th o-ring was in place I could slip paper though the forearm up to the barrel lug. The first shot or two seem to be the MOST accurate. Things don't seem to improve after fouling shots, even after waiting for barrel to cool. I think it likes to rest behind the barrel lug, but it still strings even there. I'll re-read the accurizing FAQ's. I'm no gun smith but I'm not afraid to try things and I can follow instructions. I can appreciate the post of 308Win. I know this is not a long range sniper rifle. I promise to keep you all posted with my findings but it might be a week before I'm able to get back to the range (busy at work) and it get's dark too soon. Thanks again. Hoping to post a picture of my first whitetail in next month. John R.

poncaguy · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2006, 03:34:08 PM »

My 308 was a Survivor model, switched stock and forearm to Choate Varmit set up, shoots MOA, which all my Choate stocked Handis do.think it's the forearm.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2006, 07:53:26 PM »

Try a different ammo...Almost every 308 barrel I have seen has a very long throat in it...I recommend some relatively inexpensive 150 grain Winchester Power Points...They have given sub 1/2" groups out of my 308 Bull Barrel...You stated this..

Quote

The typical (but not always) pattern is this. The first 2 shot might be within 1". Then next shot might be 2" high. Next shot might be 2" low. So, in a total of 10 shots I might have 5 or 6 within 1.5" with another 2 or 3 high by 2" and 2 or 3 low by about 2".

Since it is a random pattern...I would say your not pulling through all the way and allowing the rifle to jump in the bags sometimes...(also) don't shoot off a hard front rest You have to be very consistant when benching these rifles...otherwise you'll end up with "patterns" instead of groups...A solid cheek weld is also important...and I recommend using either a Uncle Mikes shell holder with some soft foam under it...or one of the Bear Tooth's adjustable spacer type...both will allow you to have a solid cheek weld without giving you face slap in the process...Next...I suggest you get yourself into a more upright position...these rifles are easier to shoot from a high rest position instead of being hunched over...and will allow you to have the same head position on the stock everytime...

Mac

northjdr · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2006, 04:30:37 AM »

Last night I couldn't sleep much so I checked the rifle over more throughly. I opened and closed the action. There is no wobble and no observable gap in the standing breech when closed. I don't own gap gauges but could see no light top or bottem. I try smoking it next. Overall, a good, tight, lock-up. No discernable play open or closed. I removed light residue from the latch and recess with Gun Scrubber and will try shooting without oil in this area. I removed my scope and checked the mount. I have some purple locktite but no blue so I didn't apply any yet., (Is blue preferred?) I didn't have the materials to lap the base. I'll do that in the future. My scope rings are thick and each have 4 screws (2 at the rail, 2 on top) There is a small cross peice of metal with V's cut out of each end. These V's fit into the ring sides and into the groove of the rail. I did notice that this cross piece is narrower than the groove in the weaver rail. I don't know if this is normal or a problem but I shimmed in a small peice of metal to fill this gap. The reason I noticed this initially was that I heard those pieces rattle when I turned the gun over, even though everything was tight. I remounted and snugged everything down tight. I also observed that I could get 2 layers of tinfoil under the front set screw. I understand this gap is supposed to be .0015". I cut an 1/8" piece of rubber and inserted in the forearm recess and reattached forearm. I read all of the bedding information from Fred (?) at will tackle this in the future. However, I will shim the barrel lug as soon as I get some shimming metal. I read Mac's post.The gun does tend to hop when shooting. I use a prefilled Caldwell bag as a front rest. Is this too hard? Should I shoot off of foam cushion? How do you stop the hop? Softer rest? tighter grip, more upright position, better cheek weld? pulling through. I'll try ammo you suggested. Probalby enough changes for now. I'll keep you posted.......

myarmor · « **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2006, 06:22:44 AM »

Man you are on top of things aren't you?

Keep this up and you will find the problem quickly.
I personally don't use Lock-Tight on my rifle bases, SuperGlue is cheaper, and has worked fine for me for years. Nothing against LT, just and old Smith told me to try it, and I still use it today.
I use the Caldwell DeadShot bags, and love them! You can really sink a Handi by the receiver nice and firm in them, just make sure they allow your receiver to slide a bit forward and backward.
As for the front screw, on all my wood stocked Handis..and with a good lock up, the O-Ring has worked on all of them. Just sand down the barrel channel to make sure no wood has contact with the barrel, if needed. This has worked fine with all the rifle barrels I have tired. But I have heard it hasn't worked for a few members here, so I won't say it's the best method by anymeans.
This is a great site, with tons of info and some good shooters willing to help. I learned most all I know about them here. Stick with it, and you should be able to trace down the problem, be it man or machine.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2006, 08:55:03 AM »

Quote

Should I shoot off of foam cushion? How do you stop the hop? Softer rest? tighter grip, more upright position, better cheek weld? pulling through. I'll try ammo you suggested. Probalby enough changes for now. I'll keep you posted.......

I shoot free recoil with mine off a rest...and use both the Cadwell bags and a Lyman front rest with it's bag...I use 1 finger above the barrel just in front of the scope just barely grazing to barrel...not enough to move it when looking tru the scope but enough to stop it from jumping on firing...this allows the rifle to recoil backwards and into me....and by sitting upright..I can shoot effectively this way..A good cheek weld is needed to shoot any rifle accurately and the rifle will slid on your sheek...this is why a padded cheek rest works well....and if you have a death grip on the stock...you are sure to torque it off to one side or another pulling your shots...many people do this and not even know it...because it is in anticipation of the shot and you imvoluntaraly grip it harder just before the hammer falls....Everything has to be consistant...from your ammo to your shooting technique...if it isn't...niether will your groups be...

Try 1 thing at a time...not several...see what helps...and see what doesn't...

Mac

nyhunter863 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2006, 09:16:30 AM »

I gotta tell you fans of these NEF/H&R rifles, there sure seems to be WAY too much that could be wrong with these rifles that will make them poor shooters! It seems like one needs to check this, correct that, oil here, remove lubrication there before one can expect even a mediocre group from these guns. I honestly don't know why someone should buy one and then have to go thru all these shananigans to get a decent group when one could buy just about any bolt action out there that will perform way better without any tinkering. I was considering buying one of these a while back, but I'm sure glad I reconsidered. Don't have the time and even less patience to fuss with a gun before it will do what it should do from the get go! You can buy a lower end Savage or Remington rifle for a little more and will be spared the headaches, I can assure you!!

45/70fan · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2006, 09:36:25 AM »

I had a Browning A-bolt that wouldn't shoot a factory load under 2" groups at 100yds. It took a ton of handloading work to get things right. My 45-70 handi stays around 1" with factory Rem 300's and 405's and will cloverleaf my handloaded 300's. I haven't "tweaked" a thing. So much for bolt actions "out of the box".

nyhunter863 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2006, 09:49:58 AM »

There will be clunkers in all types, but I still would bet that if you took 100 bolt actions of various make, and 100 NEF/H&R's, the bolt actions would win hands down in accuracy "right from the box"! The NEF/H&R's are supposed to appeal to the entry level hunter/gun buyer especially because of the price, but in my opinion they would not be a good choice mostly because of their lack of accuracy. The new hunter does not have the know how to make them shoot right, so in my opinion they are a poor choice for them. Even the more experienced shooter will burn up more ammo trying to make them shoot right that would have been better spent on a more expensive gun that will most likely not exhibit the many problems an NEF/H&R is likely to have.

northjdr · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:00:59 AM »

But if everthing worked the first time, I wouldn't have had all the fun I'm having trying to get things figured out(ok, some frustrations as well) Plus I wouldn't have gotten to know some nice folks and learn a bit more about accuracy and shooting in general. I have a Savage VLP .223, and I bought it to be an out of the box tack driver, and it is. Sure, I would have loved to get close to moa out of the box with my 308, but (get ready for syrupy stuff) sometimes the joy is in solving the problem and making something better, and learning about stuff......I'll buy more expensive guns in the future, but I suspect none will teach me as much as working on this .308 H&R.

northjdr · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:11:24 AM »

Quote from: northjdr on October 10, 2006, 10:00:59 AM

But if everthing worked the first time, I wouldn't have had all the fun I'm having trying to get things figured out(ok, some frustrations as well) Plus I wouldn't have gotten to know some nice folks and learn a bit more about accuracy and shooting in general. I have a Savage VLP .223, and I bought it to be an out of the box tack driver, and it is. Sure, I would have loved to get close to moa out of the box with my 308, but (get ready for syrupy stuff) sometimes the joy is in solving the problem and making something better, and learning about stuff......I'll buy more expensive guns in the future, but I suspect none will teach me as much as working on this .308 H&R.

Plus, how does a new shooter (like myself, only been shooting rifles for year a or so) ever learn how do to shoot better and how things work without doing it. When I first starting bicycle riding, the thought of getting a flat tire on a longer ride even scared me. Now, after several years in the saddle, I'm able to assist other bikers with their flats and other stuff. Ok, enough. I guess I'm just feeling philosophical do to my lack of sleep.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:21:54 AM »

nyhunter863,

You've said your piece, obviously you are no longer interested in H&R/NEF rifles, it's time for you to move on, if you have nothing to contribute to this forum other than dissing these firearms, leave, if you do continue with your provocative posts, you jeopardize your membership at GBO.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,76317.msg470707.html#msg470707

myarmor · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2006, 10:58:21 AM »

Most newcomers post here with problems, and seek a way to fix them. I was one of them

Nothing wrong with that what so ever and it's encouraged. Look at any of the other Forums and you will find simuliar post with any brand. This forum gets the most traffic, and thus more people come here seeking advice.
There are many MANY people out there that own a NEF or H&R that are completely satisfied and have never heard of GBO. I believe if you were to take the numbers of satisfied Handi owners - to owners with problems, there would be a small ratio with ones that "just won't shoot".
I find it nice that there are more ways to make one shoot better. With a Bolt, it's straight forward and there's only so many things that one can do and go through to make it a shooter. With Handis there are little "fixes" here and there that can compensate for some other area.

Dillohide · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2006, 11:08:18 AM »

Northjdr, you said the first couple of shots are most accurate ... side by side, I believe. Is this relatively the same point of impact each trip to the range barring any scope adjustments you may have made? Is this with a clean barrel and no oil? If so adjust your scope to that point of impact and enjoy hunting with your new rifle. You can worry about vertical stringing later. By the way, a lot of hunting rifles have that problem, bolt actions included. If you can't fix it you learn to adjust to it but it's usually only a problem at the range. Normal hunting shots at one target might be two if you are lucky ... usually one. The first shot is the one you want confidence in, especially with a single shot.

acloco · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2006, 11:34:08 AM »

Quote from: northjdr on October 10, 2006, 04:30:37 AM

Last night I couldn't sleep much ............. I have some purple locktite but no blue so I didn't apply any yet., (Is blue preferred?) I didn't have the materials to lap the base. I'll do that in the future. My scope rings are thick and each have 4 screws (2 at the rail, 2 on top) There is a small cross peice of metal with V's cut out of each end. These V's fit into the ring sides and into the groove of the rail. I did notice that this cross piece is narrower than the groove in the weaver rail. I don't know if this is normal or a problem but I shimmed in a small peice of metal to fill this gap. The reason I noticed this initially was that I heard those pieces rattle when I turned the gun over, even though everything was tight. I remounted and snugged everything down tight. I also observed that I could get 2 layers of tinfoil under the front set screw. I understand this gap is supposed to be .0015". I cut an 1/8" piece of rubber and inserted in the forearm recess and reattached forearm. I read all of the bedding information from Fred (?) at will tackle this in the future. However, I will shim the barrel lug as soon as I get some shimming metal. I read Mac's post.The gun does tend to hop when shooting. I use a prefilled Caldwell bag as a front rest. Is this too hard? Should I shoot off of foam cushion? How do you stop the hop? Softer rest? tighter grip, more upright position, better cheek weld? pulling through. I'll try ammo you suggested. Probalby enough changes for now. I'll keep you posted.......

I mounted a new scope on my Handi last night. Of note, the cross lock did not fit all the way into the slot in the Weaver style base. Kept one side of both mounts from grasping and sitting square on the rail. The machining on the factory Handi base needed the slot filed so that the cross lock would sit all the way down on the base.

Look at your scope base with a light, if the mount is not grabbing most of the rail, this might be the ticket, as your round has more recoil than mine.

northjdr · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2006, 12:06:52 PM »

My scope rings had the opposite problem. The cross-block (if that's what you call it) was too loose rather than too tight.The rings are very secure and completely grip the rail but even at their tightest, they weren't enough stop this cross block (recoil block?) from rattling when I held my rifle upside down.So I shimmed it. when in doubt, shim it. a shim is sort of like duct tape. Many useful applications. You are right Dillohide. I only really care about the first shot. But know that I know more improvement is possible, through better technique on my part, or minor modifications then I'd be foolish not to try to wring as much accuracy as I can out of the little 308. I noticed a thread here where people are naming their guns. If I get my 308 issues resolved I'll call it " Ye Olde Tackdriver" if not then the moniker will be "The one hit wonder"

jack19512 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:06:13 PM »

Quote from: nyhunter863 on October 10, 2006, 09:49:58 AM

There will be clunkers in all types, but I still would bet that if you took 100 bolt actions of various make, and 100 NEF/H&R's, the bolt actions would win hands down in accuracy "right from the box"! The NEF/H&R's are supposed to appeal to the entry level hunter/gun buyer especially because of the price, but in my opinion they would not be a good choice mostly because of their lack of accuracy. The new hunter does not have the know how to make them shoot right, so in my opinion they are a poor choice for them. Even the more experienced shooter will burn up more ammo trying to make them shoot right that would have been better spent on a more expensive gun that will most likely not exhibit the many problems an NEF/H&R is likely to have.

I beg to differ with you. I have a .223 Ultra Varmint that is extremely accurate and I will put it up against any brand .223 you want to shoot. Just the other day I shot a 3 shot group from 100 yards that would easily be covered with a dime and I have a witness to this. It has shot like this right out the box when new as long as I do my part. This is off the hood of my truck using a bi-pod.

In all honesty most of these rifles will shoot well enough right out of the box than most shooters are capable of shooting anyway. It isn't until one becomes an accuracy nut like myself that I feel the need to tinker with the rifle. That is one of the reasons I started handloading. I have had a lot of bolt rifles that wasn't any more accurate and some not as accurate as my NEF rifles.

northjdr · « **Reply #25 on:** October 12, 2006, 03:54:07 AM »

Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm working on some of the recommended inhancements. I'm in the process of shimming the barrel action lug for a snug fit. Fred's artcles in the FAQ section are great. I simply purchased an inexpensive feeler gauge and have used a couple of it's blades as shims. For now I am only going to RTV silcone bed the barrel in the forearm; Although Fred's method of using foam and upward barrel pressure makes a lot of sense as I think it would make the rifle less finicky about where it's rested on the forearm. I will also be lapping and remounting the scope rail. I was going to fill the ugly overhang with the same silicon. Does anybody simply cut some of the extra overhang. It seems to me the only down side is if you get a longer scope, but I assume you could simply purchase a new rail in that case. I'm also going to re-set and bed the hinge to the forearm as explained by Fred. I'm a bit nervouse about bedding the action and between the hing lugs. As my skills improve perhaps I'll consider this. Tommorow ans Saturday I hope to catch a few more muskies similar to the one I'm holding. Thanks again. John R

northjdr · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2006, 04:27:19 PM »

Hip Hip Hooray for all the people who have offered suggestions for my balky 308. Well, I finally got to the range today to see if any of the changes helped. Here's the minor tweeking I did. I free floated the barrel with some rubber on the forearm lug(no silicone yet), cleaned the locking latch, shimmed the barrel lug, lapped and remounted the scope rail, remounted the scope. I was also very careful to"pull through" on every trigger pull. I shot Winchester 150gr. power point (recommended by someone) Well, I'm not going to win any shooting match but I'm very pleased with the improvement. I am attaching a photo of four consecutive 5 shot groups @ 100yards (1.6", 3.8", 1.8", 2.3"). I only cleaned between the first and second groups. while cleaning I got some gunk on the latch which I only discovered after shooting the 2nd group. After cleaning up the latch I shot groups 3 and 4. Once again, not world class, but it's 1/2 the size of the groups I was getting earlier and it's with relatively cheap ammo. So I'm pretty happy. No more tweeking until after deer season. But then I might try some of Fred's other ideas. My Thanks to all of you.

Kydogduster · « **Reply #27 on:** October 22, 2006, 04:26:22 PM »

Northjdr,
I may have missed in the post how many rounds have been fired thru your Handi. I have had 5, 4-223's and a 270. All were good shooters with a little work. But, I spent $100.00 on a new Remington 700 VS to get it to shoot under an inch at 100yds. My 270 Handi was all over the target. I had tried to trade it, then decided to work it out. I took it to a gunsmith for a trigger job. Then I took a short piece of 1" metal conduit, wrapped some 80 grit sand paper around it and opened up the barrel channel. Removed the JB Weld I had used to bed the barrel lug, and put a 1/16" O ring between the lug and the forend. Cleaned the barrel, I mean CLEAN. After the barrel was cleaned, I made about 30 passes thru the barrel with a brush with a patch wrapped around it, covered with Flitz. nice smooth passes from breach to muzzle. After that, it shoots great. I can shoot 2" and 200 yds off bags. Sweet little rifle.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:41:58 AM »

Way to go northjdr....glad your seeing some good improvements with it...They can be tempramental from time to time...but for the most part are good shooters...If the 150's are shooting pretty good for you...you might also try some of the Fusion ammo as well...Many of us have good luck with it too...

Mac

northjdr · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:35:06 AM »

Thanks, I picked up some Fusion 150gr on Sunday (after I was already done shooting) and haven't had a chance to try them yet. I did shoot 5 more 5shot groups with the Win 150gr power points and they averaged just under 2" @100 ( My best was 1.3"). This is consistant with my results on Saturday. I did experience one more bad group (about 4") which was solved by carefully cleaning the latch. My next 2 groups were 1.3" and 1.6" Clearly my ultra doesn't tolerate any gunk on the locking mechanism becuase my groups have always improved greatly after cleaning it. I'm anxious to see how the Fusion 150's will shoot. when I open the boxes I noticed that the tips seemed rough and irregular so I carefully sanded each tip smooth with some 600grit paper. To answer Kydogduster, I now have about 150 rounds through the rifle. My first 60-80 rounds were wasted until I discovered my new Simmons scope was not working properly. Thus the switch to the Monarch. I think I'll do more work to the forend after deer season. (only 2 weeks!!!!). I'm pretty fusey about cleaning and copper removal and I won't stop until it comes out clean. Probalby one more trip to the range to test the Fusions and do a final zero. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm so happy with the results that I'll soon be purchasing an extra 223 barrel to use on the sod poodles as a back- up for my Savage VLP (26" stainless, fluted barrel)Thanks again.