Varminting rifle opinions

[Warlord]

I'm about to start some varmint hunting of my own.  I live in southern Missouri and would be hunting in woods/farmlands with plenty of long shots available.  I've read a great deal about predator calling, and am interested in trying my hand at coyote/fox hunting, as well as sniping a few woodchucks.  

I currently own a Remington 788 in .243 with a 18.5" barrel, a .270 Browning A-bolt II, as well as the usual .22s and shotguns.   My natural inclination would be to use the.243--it's quite accurate and it fits me pretty well.  My concern is that the 18.5"  barrel's muzzle blast, when fired to any real extent, would damage my hearing,  so I thought about maybe getting a .22-250 of some sort (probably Savage for accuracy) and use that instead.

Do you guys think that I should use the .243 or buy something different?

[tominboise]

The obvious answer is to buy another.  I'm surprised you had to ask that questions :wink:

Buy a .223 or .22-250 bolt action and put a good scope on it (mine is a tikka .22-250 w/ B&L Elite 3200 4-12X).  they will all shred your ears, however, so wear hearing protection if possible.  It's tough when you are hunting, but for varmints, you usually shoot more then once or twice.  

Tom

[Ron T.]

Warlord....

If you can afford it, buy another rifle.  If you can't afford it, use the .243., but regardless... get some ear protection.  Like Tom said, they'll all blast your ears and you SHOULD wear some good ear protection.  Even my little .222 heavy-barreled Sako is LOUD!

If you are going to buy another rifle and the area where you hunt is NOT very populated, a .243... or better yet, a 6mm Remington whose case has a somewhat larger powder capacity than the .243 Winchester and gives a muzzle velocity of about 50 to 80 more feet/per/second (“fps”) than the .243 Winchester with the same bullet with a 26-inch barrel would put you in good shape for about any "varmint" you wanna hunt.

The .243 Winchester is more popular due to Remington's mistake of bringing out the .244 Remington cartridge, but offering their rifle for it with a 1:12 twist to their rifle's barrel which did a good job of stabilizing the 90 grain and lighter bullets while Winchester "won the game" by bringing out their rifle with a 1:10 twist that would give good accuracy and stabilize the 100 grain and heavier bullets that the .244 Remington wouldn't shoot accurately.  The 6mm Remington cartridge and the .244 Remington cartridge are the SAME cartridge... the only "difference" being the 1:12 vs. the 1:9 twist of the rifle in which they're fired.

If I were choosing one or the other, I'd choose the Remington 6mm since it will yield a somewhat higher muzzle velocity using the SAME weight bullets as compared to the .243 Winchester.  Of course, I handload and can take full advantage of the extra powder capacity of the 6mm Remington cartridge case.  Incidentally, the .243 is a .308 Winchester case necked down to .24 caliber whereas the 6mm/.244 Remington is a 7X57 Mauser case necked down to .24 caliber.

In such a rifle, I'd suggest a Tikki, a Remington 700 varmint rifle or a Savage heavy barreled varmint rifle (a variation of the Model 110 Savage bolt action rifle).  I think the Tikki would be hard to beat for a smooth action, excellent accuracy and a "good" trigger, but the Savage 110 varmint rifle variant is also a very accurate rifle and considerably less expensive than either the Tikki or the Remington.  You might feel the action isn’t quite as smooth in either the Remington or Savage vs. the Tikki (made by Sako).

The money you save if you bought the Savage could be put towards a high-quality variable scope... the high end of which should be at least 15x or even a 6x-24x variable scope.  Be SURE to get a scope with an ADJUSTABLE OBJECTIVE (front) TURRET to correct for parallax... VERY IMPORTANT!  And get a scope that you can buy extra "sun shades" for... one that you can screw two or three sun shades together on if necessary... you can't HIT what you can't SEE in varminting… and sometimes, those sun shades will be of considerable help in keeping the sun off the objective scope lense.

The 700 Remington is reknown for it's out-of-the-box accuracy, but in all honesty, I doubt that the Remington 700 varmint rifle is quite as accurate than the Tikki or the Savage.  But it is a fine rifle capable of excellent accuracy.

As concerns caliber in a new rifle... I'd stay with the .24 caliber rather than the .22 calibers (actually .224").  Why?  The effects of the wind and a slightly heavier bullet (in the .24 calibers) which will not only "buck" the wind MUCH better, but maintain it's velocity better due to a higher ballistic coefficient.  I seriously doubt that many people could "tell" the difference in the "blast" of a .22/250 vs. the muzzle blast of a .243 Winchester Or a 6mm Remington..

The .22/250 is a .300 Savage case necked down to .224-inches... and, as I already explained, the .243 case is a .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) necked down to .24 caliber.   The "difference" in the powder capacity of the two cartridge cases is about 10%... with the powder capacity of the .243 Winchester cartridge being slighty greater, but NOT by MUCH... certainly not enough to be concerned about.

The .223 Remington (aka 5.56mm M-16 round) has a considerably SMALLER powder capacity than the other two previously-mentioned cartridge... more on the order of about HALF the powder capacity of the .22/250 OR either of the previously discussed .24 caliber rounds.

The little .223 firing a 50 grain bullet out of a 26-inch barrel will have a muzzle velocity of about 3400-3450 fps compared to a .22/250 firing the same bullet at about 3800-3900 fps depending on the powder used and the barrel length.

Moving up to a 55 grain bullet (the .22/250 factory ammo and handloader/shooter is more likely to use the 55 grain bullet), the smaller cased .223 Remington slows down to about 3300-3350 fps vs. the .22/250 which gets about 3675-3725 fps.

However, a .243 Win. or a 6mm Remington will put out a 70 grain bullet at approximately 3575-3640 fps (add 50 fps for the 6mm) that is NEAR the same velocity as a 20% lighter .224” bullet out of a .22/250… and the .24 caliber bullet will retain it’s velocity much better while bucking the wind better as well.  And we haven’t even discuss “killing power” yet.  Obviously, the .24 calibers are much superior to the .22 calibers.

If money is no REAL object, I’d go with the Tikki with at least a 5x-16x scope in 6mm Remington with a 26-inch barrel.  And if shooting ranges might reach out to 350 or even 400 yards, I’d go with a 6x-24x scope.

If noise is a factor and shooting ranges won’t exceed 250-275 yards, I’d go with the Tikki in .223 caliber.

If money was somewhat of a factor, I’d go with the Savage in 6mm Remington and still buy a reasonable good scope.

If money is a BIG factor, I’d use the short barreled .243 by adding a good 5x-15x scope… OR… tune up the .270 Winchester and put a 6x-24x scope on it… it might surprise you if you do a good job of free-floating the barrel from the recoil lug forward… and make sure the action is well-seated in the stock and the trigger “crisp” and at less than 2 lbs.  That short barrel on the .243 is losing you about 30-60 fps for every inch the barrel is shorter than 24-inches.

Of course, for best accuracy, you’ll have to handload for any of these rifles, but this would be especially important with the .270… plus if you do a lot of shooting with the .270, your shoulder is going to let you know it.  The noise level is also going to be greater than with any of the other calibers, but you should be wearing very good hearing protection in ANY case with ANY of the rifles/calibers mentioned.

There’s a LOT of factors that can change what I’ve written here… but a big one is that .24 caliber rifle could also serve as a fine, long ranged deer or antelope rifle… none of the .22 calibers could.

Good Hunting!

Strength & Honor,

Ron T.

[Zachary]

Wow Ron, I think you get the award for the longest post.

Tom and Ron pretty much said it all, but I just want to reiterate and highlight certain points.

You are talking about getting in a very specific type of hunting.  As such, I comment and recommend the following:

First of all, you need a dedicated cartridge.  The .223 and .22-250 and .220 Swift are ideal.  I would recommend the .22-250.

Second, you need a dedicated rifle.  Regular contoured barrels will work, but since varmint shooting is fast paced, you need a heavy barrel and, if possible, have it fluted.  In addition, you would want to have the barrel as far away from you as possible, so 26" barrels, although not necessary, would be a benefit.  Based on the foregoing, I would recommend the Savage Varmint Rifles - like the 12FVSS, or 12BVSS with the new Accutrigger, the Remington VS SF, and the Tikka Varmint.

As for scopes, get the Elite 4200 4x-16x-40mm or the lesser expensive Elite 3200 5x-15x-40mm.

Zachary

[D Pete]

I just bought a Remington 700 in 223 w/varmint barrel  topped it with a Bushnell 4200 6-24x40. The action sure is smooth. Have to wait 10 days to shoot it though!

[urika20]

D Pete

Did you get a vls? I might be selling my model 7 223 to my brother this week and I was thinking of getting that one in 223. Although, I am leaning towards a Tikka which would save me a hundred $.

[D Pete]

Yes on the VLS blued/w laminated stock. It's heavy but all the varmint barrels are. I looked at several but could'nt find a Howa or Tikka in my area to check out so decided on the Rem @ $599. I like the CZ but the Varmint barrel comes with a composite stock ( I prefer wood ) The Winchester to many $$, Rugers action isn't nearly as smooth as the Rem.

[urika20]

D Pete

I'll probably end up with the vls. The shop has 'em on sale for $549 until the end of this month. Checking other forums around the net, other shooters are getting 1/2 out of the box. I think I'll go with the Tikka in 243 for my boy and as a ground hog shooter also. Shooting my 7mm express with 100 gr hollow points is a bit much since the majority of shots are under 350.

[jerrl]

I'm surprised at some of the answers here.  First of all let me say this, there are few varmint hunters that I know that don't have a .223.  They usually have others as well but mostly hunt with the .223.  Yes the .223 contains only half the powder as other cases.  This means twice the bangs per pound of powder.  After all a prairie dog does not know the difference between a 55 grainer at 3600 fps vs a 50 grainer at 3400fps.  Some guys I know may shoot over 200 rounds a day and stay 6 days.  The lower recoil and boom does make a difference.  I say buy the .223, you will probably wind up with one anyway.  Oh yeah, some of the really fast guns have a barrel with a accurate life span of hundreds of rounds while the old .223 might stay sub MOA for thousands of pops.

[handgunner]

I owned a VLS in 243 and was very,very unhappy with it.I shot all different ammo through it from 75gr-100gr Federal to 100gr Hornady and everything in between and could not group better than 2 inches at 100 yards off a rock solid bench.I bought the rifle after talking to alot of realy knowledgeable folks that said they were the best buy for the money,and all I have to say is ha ya right!! Im not saying Remington doesnt make a good rifle but alot of guys think that the quality has realy slipped.Then there are guys that swear by em.I traded that gun and bought a Styer 243 sbs that makes one small hole at 100 yds and havent looked back.JMHO

[Majic]

Not all varminters shoot at prairie dogs. Here in the east we hunt groundhogs and crows. We hardly ever get to shoot 200 shots per day, even when hunting ground squirrels, and that's with a .22lr. Some hunters use .223's, but I think the vast majority of us uses .22-250s or .243s for those long beanfield shots. If the whistle pigs are close to the house, barn, or farm animals we switch to a .22mag or better yet a .22 Hornet. You choose a cartridge that best suits your shooting enviroment.

[longwinters]

I have a Tikka 243 and it is great to shoot and to hunt with.  But if I was going to go to a real varmint rifle it would be a Tikka in 223.  Cheap ammo, good range, low recoil and long barrel life.

[Mark]

My vote goes to the Remington M 700 VSSF  22-250.
Top with a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24X40 scope and adjust the trigger for a more reasonable pull.  Groundhogs, crows, and others beware!

[Five O in ND]

I'm with Mark on this one.  I own the VS SF in .22-250 and it'll shoot circles around most of my other rifles w/factory ammo.  But I'll say one thing.......hang onto that 788.  I have one in .22-250 and just can't give it up.  It shoots like a MF and it's fast.  Stiff as hell and butt ugly, but a great gun.  Your 788 in .243 would make a great coyote/white tail gun if you're not already using it for that....

Good luck!

[Dogshooter]

I vote with the 223 guys. Ammo is abundant, cheap, and generally accurate enought for most of the guys here. As for a rifle. I have gotten rid of all of my heavy barrel varminters and replaced all with sporter weight weapons. I couldn't see a difference in the accuracy until after quite a few round in rapid succession and when is that really necessary? Oh I guess there will always be those times when you stampede the whole herd of prarie dogs and HAVE to shoot all 200 to save life and limb. For the rest of us, light barrels work just fine, and I'd sure as hell rather pack what I have now.

[Questor]

I like the idea of the .243 because it's a good varmint round and it's a favorite of people who take longer shots.  I've been thinking of what kind of center fire rifle my kids should have and I'm looking at a 243 bolt action. We can load it for deer or prairie dogs.  Bulk packs of varmint bullets are available.  The extra powder isn't a huge expense vis a vis the .223 or 22-250.

[BNoz01]

You guys have done a good job at reiterating all the old arguments, save one.  I own 223 and 22-250 varmint rifles.  I think one aspect of the 223 makes it much more enjoyable over the 22-250.  I can shoot any 223 and retain the sight picture through the recoil.  This allows me to enjoy watching the bullet impact.  

I've yet to be able to shoot a 22-250 rifle, even very heavy ones, and retain the sight picture through the recoil of the rifle.  In this case I have to rely on a spotter to tell me how to adjust fire, and to describe the "fireworks" of the round hitting.

If you're new to long range varminting, you will learn quicker of  you can see your own impacts.  In that regard I vote for the 223.

B. Noz.

[hillbilly]

Ilive in east central Alberta where i hunt just about everything that walks or flies up here. during our long cold winters i hunt song dogs, but in spring and summer i'm out after gophers(Richardson ground squirrel), crows, magpies,and coyotes.
I had a 22-250 built on a FN mauser with a 26 inch bull barrel, 3-9 monoscope, harris bipod, buttstock shellholder, the dang gun weighed in at 13.5LBS, just try to lug that a spotting scope, binos, 200 or so rounds and a canteen over the bald prairie in 100degree heat. it ain't no fun. so i purchased a remington 700 vs with the sporter contour barrel threw on a tasco 6-24 tactical( I know tascos cheap but remember Bushnell is now makeing them.)lost the bipod now i've got what I'd call a "walking varminter". sure it'll heat up with sustained fire, but after 5-7 shots sit back have a drink and enjoy the scenery. as for bucking the wind my handloaded 52gr Speer HPBT match at 3300fps only drifts 8-9 inches in a 15mph wind at 350yds. and with the mil-dot reticle hold over or "hold beside" is no problem.
remember it's about the shooting, the hunting, the enjoyment, as the old saying goes "dance with the one that brung ya", so use what you want, use what you got, heck my brother hunts gophers with his P-17 enfield 30-06 150 remington bronze points. besides if you shoot out your barrel its a great excuse to get a new gun.

remember keep your cross hair staight and your eye on the target.

[hillbilly]

i forgot one thing i've got one of the new 17HMR, in the savage  great gun for closer range gophers 10-200yds.  and absolutly killer on crows but i've found it lacking for coyotes. I called one in for my brother in-law, and he shot it at 15 yds, it was running like heck to jump on that wounded rabbit, me. my guess was he hit somewhere low in the chest. as it dropped like it was poleaxed. but jumped up and bolted, before i could swing my weapon on it. so it may work on foxes, gophers crows magpies but we grow so big dang dogs up here in the great white north. and really it doesn't do anything the 22 centerfires won't do, and with reloading it's not any cheaper. Have you fellas in the States had any trouble with ammo supple for the 17HMR, up here its dang hard to find ammo and when we do it at $20 a box. so all things considered I'm thinking i might sell the 17, and buy some more 22-250 reloading supplies.

talk to ya'll later

[gunnut69]

I have killed a lot of coyotes with the 222, 223, 22-250, 220 and inside of 300-350 yards they work great, with 222,223 class cases inside of 200-225 yards. Even at those ranges they need decent hits, as does anything. The 243-6mm give a bit of edge. Their extra damage on impact will deliver deadly damage with poorer hits and at extended ranges. For coyote hunting I really prefer the 243-6mm class rounds.  Also for your info the 244 did change into the 6mm Remington but the twist rate in the 722 chambered in the 244 was changed to 1-10(or 1-9) after only a few months of production. This is a rare combo- the M722 Remington in 244 Remington caliber with the 1-12 twist. If you check you can oftimes pick up quite a bargain.  I recently bought a 722 in stock configuration and mint condition at a greatly reduced price. The gentleman was being quite honest and told me 3 times that the rifle was equipped with the fast twist barrel and wouldn't shoot worth a hoot with heavier bullets. After the purchase I explained myself. I wanted a rifle for coyotes and would never fire a round loaded with anything heavier than an 85 grain bullet anyway and besides that- this variation has to be one of the least produced of any Remington production rifle!!  I mounted a 12x scope and worked up a load featuring the 75 Sierra HP bullet. The little 244 will put 3 of them into 1/2-3/4 inch at 100 yards and has been fairly stable as to point of impact...just what the doctor ordered. Woodchucks are considerably easier to kill and Pdogs easier yet. But a coyote can pack an awful lot of lead and travel a long ways, the 243/6mm's are better choices. I now need to decide if I like the 244 better than my 220's or 22-250!

[Smallie34]

I love my VS in 223 and cant say enough good things about the rifle and the caliber, I also have a VLS in 22-250 that does its job, but the 223 loaded with 40gr V-Max has been many a groundhogs doom around these parts.

[hillbilly]

gunnut69
 
I've hunted song dogs for years by either calling, or stalking. up here in Alberta generally the farthest shot on a calling stand should be no more than 300ydsmaybe a bit moreif the coyotes already turned tail and bolted. and that's if you fouled up the stand(moving around, the dog catches your wind, etc.)I've had them come in to 10 FEET. and sit down and look at me with tilted heads. A split second before i dropped the hammer on them. and the farthest stalking shot I'd guess was about 375yds my longest shot on anything bigger than a ground squirrel. my farthest running shot was bang on301yds ranged after with a bushnell laserpro.(it was actually caught on tape) I know several guys locally that drive around the back roads and blast away at coyotes from their truck windows heedless of whats over the next hill. or how far the dog is, just as long as they've got ammo they're blastin' with everything from old 30-30's to 300 win mags. besides a coyote running full out can hit 30mph and at 350yds thats like a 30ft lead take into account wind drift, bullet drop but if you know your surroundings, your gun, load, you can make the 400yd shot. or if you know your surroundings, gun, load, and most of all your quarry hold out for that 10 ft shot. in my opinion that makes you a HUNTER, not just a shooter. but hey what do i know. just to let you know i use a remington 700 in 22-250 with a 55gr V-MAX at 3600 fps zeroed for 200yds.[/b]

[jdt48653]

i hear them new wssm`s in 223 and 243 are up around 4,000ft sec.
been hearing good reports on them!

[OOBuckshot]

Check out a Ruger #1 in a 220 swift. Then look to see who is chambering six millimeters. My Ruger #1 in six mm.  is a tack driver with a Leubold 6.5x20. What ever you get, good hunting.     OOBuckshot

[His lordship.]

Ammo is getting alot easier the last few months for .17 HMR.  Try the gunshops as they now have the CCI, and Remington brand as well as abundant amounts of the Hornady in the Minnesota area.  It was alot tougher 6 months ago to find the ammo.

I now have 2 rifles in .17 HMR, a CZ 452 and a Ruger 77/17.  Both are still in the break in period, but low and behold while adjusting the scope on my brand new Ruger, a crow landed on a low branch 90 yards away, allowing for the windage being off on my scope as it was not fully adjusted yet, I hit him.  That cartridge really tore him up good, dead before he hit the ground.

I went with the .17 because of low recoil, low cost of the guns and ammo, and the rifles are light to carry for those 6-10 mile walking hunts.  I mostly hunt crows and smaller rodents from gophers to woodchucks.  If I was to go after a coyote I would want my 30-06 or would buy a .223.

The whole idea of the centerfires with costs of around $700.00 to $1,000.00 apiece with scopes for the cheapies, up to $5,000.00 for custom guns was just too much for me.  True, I won't be able to hit a prairie dog at 500 yards with a .17WMR, but then again I can save alot of money, and then can sneak closer to them.  And isn't that what hunting is all about?! :-)