Author Topic: What's up with all the high powered magnum rifles? (Read 4358 times)

sgtt · « **Reply #30 on:** July 03, 2004, 08:16:46 PM »

I agree with Redhawk, however..........

"Magnum" is a marketing ploy to make one's subconscience mind believe that it is somehow better. I own some and occasionally use them. I try to fit the firearm to the task at hand. The word has lost some of it's impact and thus the "Ultra Magnum" is born.

I disagree that up north in Minnesota a 30-30 is all you need. I have used one extensively but, I have also passed up opportunities that I would of taken had I been armed with a 30-06.

My daughter has used a 257 Roberts, based on a 98 Mauser platform. This yr she wants to use a 30-06. Her decision is based upon a "guy at school", who uses that caliber. He hasn't killed anything with it........but, she is not one to let a male one up her. The same reason she wanted to start field dressing her kills. Ain't peer pressure great? I did point out to her that the 4 deer she has taken in her 4 yrs of hunting were as dead as any dead deer I have ever seen. She replied, "Can we bring them both."

I have hunted a lot out in WY. My fav. is the 25-06 out there. My longest shot was with a 243 Win. I will not say what the electronic rangefinder said as I believe that the skill of the hunter is based on how close you can get. I have also used a 7MM TCU. The distance........ 25 yds.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #31 on:** July 04, 2004, 03:54:59 PM »

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the Win Mags, Weatherby Mags or newer RUMs. But no, they are not generally necessary. In fact, the real reason for them, IMHO, is to extend your hunting range - or more correctly, your hunting area.

As I have said on other posts or forums, its kind of like comparing a 9" and 12" pizza. The radius ("range") of the larger pizza is only 6" compared to 4.5" for the smaller one -- an increase of only 33%. But the total AREA of the larger pizza is a whopping 77.8% greater.

There is, however, the law of diminishing returns. At some point you have a cartridge that shoots flat enough that most hunters will never shoot game beyond its capabilities. The reason may be that they don't feel competent at further ranges, or maybe that they have no problem simply closing the range. But there are others who practice the long shots and are competent to take them. If they are hunting an environment where longer ranges are to be expected, I see no reason why the Magnums are not appropriate.

One should always remember, too, that the Magnums can be downloaded if desired, but the standard cartridges can never safely reach Magnum performance.

So what do I shoot? A couple of Marlin lever guns (.375Win and .45-70), a couple of muzzleloaders (both .50 caliber), a .44 Mag carbine, a .257 Roberts and a 7mm Mag. Longest shot I have ever taken was 350 yards for a 6x5 bull elk, one shot, and about 290 yards for a buck antelope - everything else was 215 yards or under.

So, no, I don't have any super-whiz-bang-ultra-mags, and no, I've never needed one -- a .30-06 would have done everything I ever needed. But that doesn't mean I won't get one. Kind of have my eye on the .338 and .375 RUM. Why? Because. And thats all it takes to make them "sensible" cartridges, IMHO.

Oh, yeah - one other thing...

Recoil on the super-whiz-bang-ultra-mags? Take an unscoped Marlin 1895 with the standard hard rubber "pad" and drive a 460g hardcast to around 1812fps. :shock: Then come talk to me about "recoil". :wink:

magnum308 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 04, 2004, 04:33:22 PM »

Coyote Hunter,

Good post. Though, I thought the comment that began this tread was questioning the relevance of magnums in general rather than the new, what me might call ultra mags. These include the 378 Weatherby derivatives, 300 RUM and 338 Lapua, et al.

I agree with you 100%, although if anyone wants to fund the future of powder and barrel companies that's their business as long as they don't shoot them from the bench next to me when I'm at the rifle range.

I've had, what you might call, standard magnums for some time (more than 20 years) and one of them is my favorite rifle to shoot both at the rifle range and the bush. Although, here in Australia there is even less a "need" for these rifles than in the US. Some would say that with the possible exception of sambar deer and water buffalo there is no earthly need for any type of magnum, with the excetpion of the 222 Magnum. In fact, I was at the rifle range only last week working out a good hunting load for my 308 Win for pigs (boar) in Western Queensland and received a comment from someone there that it was overgunned for that animal. It wasn't too long ago that if you had anything larger than a 243 Win people wondered about you. Now I see much more prevalence of calibres like 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag. In fact if you go to the following website: http://www.deerhunter.com.au/nuke7/modules.php?name=Forums
which is predominantly established by sambar deer hunters in Victoria, Australia you will notice that the 375 H&H is used by some to hunt this animal, Australia's largest deer. There is even an Australian establised webforum for big English "Nitro Express" rifles, see: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat= )

This all just demonstrates that if you want something that's a bit different then there will always be others who will enjoy it with you. If there is enough of you then there will be always someone who will see a commercial opportunity in catering to your want. That's free enterprise. Socialism on the other hand always seeks to restrict your choices and to make you fit the mould of the majority. Nonconformity is punished severely.

I know which system I would prefer to live under.

Magnum

RamJohn · « **Reply #33 on:** July 18, 2004, 03:56:02 AM »

MMM....Magnums...
I'm just glad we have the choices we do. Thats what makes this life great. If you you want a Magnum, by all means get one (I did). Don't let anyone make your choice for you. Do I really need one...probably not, but I wanted one....my choice. I have a 30-06 that that I'm happy with also. But I wanted better downrange performance, and before you say "What??" look at the ballistics charts.

Will a "magnum" make you a better shot at long range? Maybe, maybe not. The round will be more accurate, statisticly, but its only as accurate as those pulling the trigger. Would you (hypothetically) be more comfortable shooting a flat magnum or a round that drops 40 inches at 500 yards? A round that has 1150ftp at 500 yds or 2000ftp? (speaking big game here)

To me, I'd rather have the power and flat trajectory, and not need it, than not have it and wish I did later. Use the right tool for the job, for instance, a .270, to me, is not an ethical choice for anything over 300 yards, but a .300WM IS. On the other hand, is a .300WM overkill for medium size deer at 100 yards? Some may think so. Personally I'd never hunt with anything less than .30 caliber. I will and do own smaller calibers, but they are my "fun" guns.

As for bow hunting...been there still do that, but you can't compare bows to guns..each are capable of killing as they are designed to do, when used responsibly. Can a bow kill an Elk at 25 yards?...of course, but not at 400...apples and oranges. Just my .02 cents....

To each his own, it's your choice.......
Safe shooting to everyone....

sgtt · « **Reply #34 on:** July 18, 2004, 07:01:47 PM »

RamJohn is exactly correct about the person pulling the trigger.
I have seen far too many "hunters" at my range during the public shooting times with a gun that is beyond their capabilities. The guy with the latest .338 super/ultra/fastest ever/holds a ton of powder/will kill, field dress, and skin your deer with one pull of the trigger/ cartridge is not doing himself any favors when he clenches his teeth, closes his eyes, jerks the trigger, and hopes he hits the paper. Almost invariablly, during the resulting conversation it will be discovered that he will be hunting deer with the longest shot about 100 yds. Well, you can't grill 'em till ya kill 'em. Chances are he won't be doing much grilling.

Questor · « **Reply #35 on:** July 19, 2004, 05:42:53 AM »

My opinion on magnums is that if you need them, you need to learn to shoot them. But most of us don't need them.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 20, 2004, 07:11:49 AM »

Needs...or...Wants...who's to say for another...only the person who's shooting them can answer that question and to apply your logic for another person is not quite right.

Everyone has choices to make...be it for a Magnum or a standard caliber...please do not apply your standards to me...they don't fit me as well as they do you.

I thought for a long time that the Magnums were not really needed unless you were going after very large criiters...but after having the opourtunity to aquire a Weatherby Magnum,I deceided to get one and use it for a while...will I need it for shots under 100 yards...probably not...but I still can use for that distance...but when I get to go out west where 300-400 yard shots are the norm...this is where it will really be nice to hold dead on and pull the trigger...and I do plan on going out there someday to hunt.,in the mean time I'll beome proficent with it and find the right load for whatever I deceide to hunt with it.

Mac

mountainview · « **Reply #37 on:** July 20, 2004, 08:35:33 AM »

Decided to chime in and add to the fray. I agree to each his/her own and I enjoy having the wide selection to choose from. Yes the mags etc are a marketing ploy by the manufacturers since they want to stay in business and continue to offer us the excellent hardware and accessories that they do. If they don't make money, they fold. Remwinmosstik are not charitable organizations that exist for the benefit of the shooting public, they exist to make money.

Some interesting info I came across (forget where but I think it was an anti web site of all places) is:

1) Number of new shooters entering the sport is not growing, it is flat and expected to decline in the future.
2) Firearms (with proper care) last a lifetime and manufacturers make money on sales of new, not used firearms.
3) To keep a reasonable market for new firearms, manufacturers have to sell guns to existing owners which necessitates creating new niches. I is there is a limit as to how many Tikka 30-06s a person wants?

Plus how many interesting forum posts could be generated if we only had the 30-06, 270, and 30-30 to work with?

Safe shooting.

Dogshooter · « **Reply #38 on:** July 20, 2004, 03:39:39 PM »

Magnums have their place. Maybe that place ain't in Minnesota or Ohio, but where I live they do come in handy. I have everythging from a 17 Rem up to a 338 Win Mag. I don't shoot prairie dogs with the 338 and I don't shoot elk with the 17. I always consider the game I am going after as well as the terrain I expect to hunt in when I choose which weapon I will take on any given hunt. I also shoot ALL of my rifles a LOT during the off season and for sure before I take one of them hunting. I don't reccommend magnums for anyone who can't handle the recoil. Elk and moose are killed here every year with 270's and '06's but if you can handle the recoil and can accurately shoot a magnum, I feel that we owe it to these animals to dispatch them with all the authority we have at our disposal. I have killed elk with a 243 and a 44 mag but will always opt for bigger calibers when I have a choice.

crazyjjk · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2004, 03:06:01 AM »

Only problem I see with magnums is with the once a year shooters. The people who come hunting season blow the dust off their gun and go hunting. Many of these people believe the magnum will make up for poor shooting skills People who shoot regularly (like most members of these forums) have the experience to know if they need a magnum or not and if they can handle it or not. I think though that the advertising for the magnums is geared towards those once a year shooters. It's kind of like the many people who buy SUV's and than the only offroad they see is the parking lot for the mall, or Wal-Mart. And then they are ready to sue because they flip one because of there high center of gravity As for the magnums in experienced hands they do the job they are intended for. In inexperiened hands with the increased recoil & noise they are disastor.

Zachary · « **Reply #40 on:** July 21, 2004, 03:29:14 AM »

When the magnum craze was at it's highest peak, about 2 or 3 years ago, I went the other direction and bought a .260 Remington, a 7mm-08, and a .308.

I have to admit that later on I myself bought some of the ultra magnums - .270WSM, .300WSM, 7mm Ultra Mag, and .300 Ultra Mag. However, it seems that I buy these guns because I'm not necessarily a gun COLLECTOR, but rather a gun ACCUMULATOR.

Still, I went through the mag phase and it's now over because I recently bought 3 more rifles: a .17HMR, another 7mm-08, and a 6.5x55, none of which are even close to being classified as a magnum (except, perhaps, the .17HMR which is a baby rimfire magnum. :wink: )

Zachary

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #41 on:** July 25, 2004, 08:59:02 PM »

Firstly I own a 30/30 that gets used a couple times a year, an old 06 that I have the utmost respect for, I shot since I was a kid but no longer gets fired and of course my 7mm Remington Magnum which to me is kinda comparable to a 30-06 but using a flatter fliing .284 cal bullet and a little more punch. Also I shoot it weekly or more...I can shoot from 25-500 yards comfortably. Sometimes people ask me if I think its over kill I just smile and say "The deer don't seem to care"

+ with experience there is NO meat damage.
If you can handle it and make clean kills without wasting meat go for it!!!

Cabin4 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 26, 2004, 03:31:00 AM »

Ditto on the magnum mania going on. All you read about in the gun rags are ultra mag this, ultras mag that, WSM this and that. I think anyone who would trade in a 270 or any other gun for its updated wsm or ultra brother really has been hipnotized by the gun rag writers.

What the heck is going on? and who the heck needs this stuff to kill a deer or anything that can run in front of your sights in NA ?

Whats wrong with the challenge of using a standard cartridge for big game ? Anyone of the old standards will kill anything we have. Granted, you may have to get a bit closer.

Mauser · « **Reply #43 on:** July 26, 2004, 05:10:04 AM »

My only problem with magnums has nothing to do with the cartridges themselves but rather with some of those who buy them. I think some guys buy magnums because they think velocity and energy makes up for poor shot placement, ie: the cartridge is more forgiving of a lesser shot. These are the same guys that you'll hear say, "this will knock an elk off his feet at 500 yards" or something similar. It is my experience that these people are often flinching when touching off their cannons.

Why do I care about what someone else uses for hunting? Because the hunting world is not exactly swimming in goodwill these days. I would much prefer that "hunters" first perfect their hunting and shooting skills such as the four basic shooting positions (no bench in sight), doping the weather, ballistics, animal vitals, tracking, scent control, movement and cover and concealment, etc. It is probably too much to ask that folks read some books about it also. I somethimes just wish people CARED about these things. No magnum made can make up for a lack of these basic hunting skills and they are much better learned with a 243/30-30/etc.

I'm sure many on this board have, at some point, had the following experience. I met a father and son at my range, a couple of springs ago, who were trying out the 15 year old son's new 7mm mag Rem M700 apparently received for CHRISTmas. The kid went to this from a 22 LR (which I don't think he used much). He didn't much like the recoil and muzzle blast, which I suspect disappointed his father somewhat. Daddy wanted him to use a "man's gun" for the kid's first fall deer hunt in Wisconsin. Why not start the kid off with a .243 or some such cartridge? A "man's gun" is one that is used by a man whether it is a 257 Roberts or a 375 H&H.

If someone has become an accomplished hunter/rifleman and wants some additional range because of where they hunt and are unaffected by the additional recoil, then a magnum might be a sensible option. Sadly that probably accounts for a minority of magnum sales these days.