Reloading 45-70 for SB2 handi?

[tacklebury]

Longtom: The reason is that the caked nature of the pellets controls the burn rate somewhat.  With loose black powder it all goes up very quickly causing pressure spikes.  This is what I've read elsewhere anyway.    Plus the pellets typically have a hole down the center to start the burn radially from center to outside. 

[bikerbeans]

Longtom,

Let me know what Hodgdon says regarding using pyrodex pellets in a BPCR.  A friend gave me a container of 30 grain Pyrodex pellets that are for a 44/45 caliber revolver.  Might be fun to put a couple down a 45/70 case, but I would want Hodgdon's input before trying it.   I have already using BH209 (loose powder) in 45/70 & 45/120 cartridges and it was fun but not so accurate.  After reading Junior1942's article on loose pyrodex in a 45/70 cartridge I think I know why I had problems.  Great, now I have another reason to shoot powder that costs $30/10 ounce.

BB

[Squib]

I made some more of those 500gr hornady interlock loads again.  I'll post up the info after this run gets used up tomorrow (I made two variations this time to check for performance variables in crimping and powder compression). 

[gcrank1]

FWIW: The particles you find in the barrel after a shot arent 'unburned' (knock them out and take a look under m'scope) but it is dirty and in the bore and I dont like it either. So I up the charge or switch to a faster burn rate powder.
Regarding black powder: yes, we often see 'load by volume', but the marks on BP powder 'measures' do roughly (very roughly) correlate to weight and vary mfr. to mfr. and which grade (FFg or FFg, etc.) you use.
Long range BP shooters, muzzleloader as well as cartridge, weigh each load and dispense into the case.
BP is fine loaded by volume for average shooting and easy to live with. A friend loaded his first 45-70 loads with his ML tube measure and did fine.
Now, where the 'load by volume' is important (VERY) is using BP substitutes that have been formulated to match the BP pressures at those volumes. You can dispense those with a regular reloading measure if you first find the proper volume and then weigh it, then set you measure to throw that weight.
So, yes, you can use something nicer and more accurate that a volumetric only 'measure'.

[LONGTOM]

I have read that Pyrodex pellets can be used in loading brass cases in the 45-70.
If this is true then why doesn't the air space around the pellets cause any problems?
Any ideas?
LONGTOM

I've got a partial answer. Why not call Hodgdon and ask them? I've called them before with questions and they have always been very willing and able, besides, if anyone would know it should be them. Hodgdon-7:00am to 5:30pm Central Monday-Thursday : 913-362-9455
Don

Update:

OK, just got the straight dope from DAVE at HODGDSONS.
Pyro pellets are fine in cartridge cases.
Even with the air space between the pellet and the bullet.
He said it is OK because the pellets are already compressed.
So even if the pellets rattle in the case they are fine to shoot with no harm to the case or the gun.



Frank                                                   aka   LONGTOM

[Squib]

2.758 inches is the total overall length of my hornady 500gr interlock.  varget powder charge weights the first time were 40.7-41.3.  this (second) time they were 38.7 +/- 0.1gr.  the recoil was a bit softer, terminal effects into bowling pins and tree trunks were alright.  they went into wood just fine, tended to lose their jackets quickly though.... I don't think a deer is tough enough to rip those jackets off.  the expansion on the one we actually recovered was over an inch.

[bikerbeans]

I have some 397 grain, .458" LRNGCs and an unopened box of 30 grain 44/45 cal. 30 grain pyrodex pellets.  Will load some up and head to the range shortly.  Will be using a 18.5" 45/70  so hopefully will not start a major brushfire.  Magnum LR primers and away we go.  If this works okay will try these in the 32" 45-120.

BB

[LONGTOM]

My shorty is finished yet so that will have to wait.
May play with the BC.
Still haven't done the 120 yet.
You play with the shorty, I think I am going in a different direction with the pellets.
Might try some in one of my .500s and see how that goes.
I like the smoke and I love a really big hole! 



LONGTOM

[bikerbeans]

LT,

I loaded up 6 rounds with (2) each of the 30 grain 44/45 Pyrodex pistol pellets.  I used fired and unsized 45/70 brass so I could finger seat the bullets on top of the pellets w/o crushing them in my press.  After seating I used a LEE FC die to crimp.  I used Remington LR Mag Primers. 3 rounds loaded with 397 grn LRNGCs, OAL of 2.48" & 3 rounds with 535 grain Postels, OAL of 2.90".  Went to the range and all 6 fired fine, recoil to me was trapdoor level.  The 397 grainers I fired at 25 yards  so I sure to be on paper, 2 rounds in the same hole and one an inch away because of operator error.   I was doing to shoot the postels at 50 yards but the high winds blew my target over so I shot them at my 100 yard target.  My shorty is zeroed @ 100 yards with the postels on top of 35 grains of H4198.  The pyro pellets & postels shot a 3" group @ 100  yards, but about 8" below my POA.  Probably not a fair test for the pyro pellets shooting them in 18.5" barrel.

I am going to continue this experiment with my 45-120, 32" barrel as this should allow the pellets to burn completely.  Will also keep using the pistol pellets as that is all I have.  3 of the 30 grain pellets fit inside a 45-120 case with headspace.  4 pellets fit but don't leave enough room to seat any of the 45 cal bullets I have.  Hodgdon says okay with air gap between bullet & pellet so will run with 3 pellets.  Frank, did you ask Hodgdon about 777 pellets in cartridges?

BTW,  Junior's barrel cleaning using dish soap and the kitchen sink works great but make sure you finish before your wife gets home.

BB