Author Topic: Deer bullets in .223 Handi? (Read 4004 times)

Handi-Fan · « **Reply #30 on:** July 02, 2010, 12:59:36 PM »

I'm new to the forum and I will probably get my toes squashed. But I believe the caliber of choice should the individuals. NOTE: If you have the skill to harvest a deer with a 223 then shoot a 223. I personally use quite a few calibers that wouldn't be everyones perfect choice. But I like them 25-20, 32-20,223,22-250,25-35,256win. I could name a few more. And last year I took out my trusty 308 loaded with 150gr.HornadySST shot a nice buck through the lungs and he decided to run 400 yds. So, it doesn't as much about the caliber as it does the shot placement and the animals will to survive. And please understand this is one opinion based on 35yrs. of experience.

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #31 on:** July 02, 2010, 01:53:58 PM »

Welcome Handi-Fan!

I doubt you'll find your toes being squashed, too much. You will find many here that have used the .223 many times for deer and many of the youngins they have under their wing have had their pictures posted on this forum with their "first" deer kills using the .223

Bill

montveil · « **Reply #32 on:** July 02, 2010, 02:56:07 PM »

I hear many quotes about hitting in the neck region--- The neck is quite a large area and just where is the best point of aim??

Handi-Fan · « **Reply #33 on:** July 02, 2010, 03:08:07 PM »

The aiming point of the neck will depend partly on how you face the deer, From the front, quartering, broad side. If you're familiar with the skeletal of a deer from broadside the spine will not be centered in the neck, it will be a little more to the back of the neck. facing or from the rear I aim for the center of the neck. Hope that helps some.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #34 on:** July 02, 2010, 07:08:56 PM »

Well, I just read all the posts here and I was really surprised it did not turn into mudslinging about the 223 being inadequate for deer.

I have not hunted deer yet, nor anything else worth killing, but it is in my near future.

I have read enough discussions about 223 good/bad for deer, to draw a conclusion that bullet technology appears to have finally caught up with a caliber that used to be considered inadequate.

Well why not? Everything else in shooting is advancing in leaps and bounds, and so have bullets.

From what I have read, I would not hesitate to take a 223 afield for Missouri whitetail using the right loads, and would not worry if I met a few of their boaring friends along the way and dispatch them too.

Just want to say thanks on behalf of all us newbies here...every day I log on I learn something useful.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #35 on:** July 03, 2010, 05:42:58 AM »

Fellas here's a HUGE thread with a wealth of firsthand information on various 223 bullets and loads on deer with lots of nice gruesome pics no less

The last submission is mine

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=23&t=626832&page=8

montveil · « **Reply #36 on:** July 03, 2010, 06:22:24 AM »

With a neck shot, I assume I am targeting the spine. If I err on the low side with a broadside neck shot I figure the bullet will tear into arteries and veins windpipe. With this kind of hit, how long would you guess the deer run before dropping?
Is the shock with this kind of hit enough to paralyze the spinal column?

It seems to me that a shot for the spine would result in a drop but if the shot was high a miss would result in an uninjured deer which is OK with me-- I'm a clean kill or no kill guy
Your thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks

MSP Ret · « **Reply #37 on:** July 03, 2010, 06:44:43 AM »

Krocus, good info and pictures. I did not know you were addicted with BRD as well as being a Handiholic, however I am beginning to believe they may be closely related maladys. I also visit arfcom but have never thought of an AR as a deer rifle, keeping it for coyotes and fun shooting. For deer hunting with a rifle I have always tended towards one of the larger diameter calibers, 45-70 or .35 Remington. It might be interesting to try a retro A1 I have built up in the deer woods for a day or so this year...Thanks....<><....

Frank V · « **Reply #38 on:** July 05, 2010, 11:50:58 AM »

If I were going to use the .223 on Deer (I'm not going to get into the yes we should, no we shouldn't) I'd use the Barns TSX .224 52gr bullet. You can't blow that bullet up. I've used it for years in the .375H&H! It's all copper & just simply will not blow up. It will penitrate all out of porportion of it's caliber too. Give it a try.
No I don't own stock in Barns!

Frank

gstewart44 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 05, 2010, 12:41:15 PM »

I have used the .223 on many of my hog hunts over the years, but no deer. I don't know why, it's just the way it turned out. That being said I use the Winchester 64 gr PowerPoint - it is very accurate and has taken hogs from 80 - 180 pounds at ranges of 50 -200 yds. All shots but one were head or neck shots. I did shoot a single 80 lb sow in the heart/lung area quartering toward me. She kept running 10 yds after hit but I don't know how. Upon dissection her heart and one lung were found to be jelly. The head and neck shots were DRT. I wouldn't choose the 223 as a first choice for deer but if I was out hog hunting during deer season and an opportunity presented I wouldn't hesitate at a good shot with the 64 gr PP.

Couger · « **Reply #40 on:** July 05, 2010, 02:17:48 PM »

A .223 will kill the biggest deer out there - provided the shot is well made with a bullet up to the job!

But I'd recommend ammo used be specifically "built" by a reloader for killing a deer.

Only three-best bullet choices exist in my opinion ......

1. The Winchester 64 grain Power Point spitzer is a proven deer-slayer that seems to hold together well and makes a classic would channel through the vitals (lungs and heart).

2. The Nosler 60 grain Partition is specifcally designed for use in the .220 swift and .22-250 to kill deer, holding together well upon expansion.

3. The Speer 70 grain Semi-Spitzer is specifically designed for use in the .220 Swift and .22-250, but I killed a mature Mulie doe with .223 ammo relaoded with this bullet in 1981. I was well pleased with the performance! Doe only traveled 50-60yds after being hit by a complete pass-through. Left a tennis ball sized hole under the hide where the bullet exited. Sprayed hair and blood for 8-10 feet beyond the exit wound. Estimated MV was right around 3000fps. Shot was at 125-150 yards with a M788 (a great rifle I foolishly sold).

petemi · « **Reply #41 on:** July 05, 2010, 02:43:11 PM »

I'd highly recommend a .308 168 gr. BT, I don't know how you could stuff it down a .223.

Just me I guess. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why folks want to kill something with the teeniest bullet available. There is no such thing as overkill. You want the critter dead..right there. I won't use anything less than .30 caliber on deer. I've got a lot more capeable rifles than my .223. What's the point? Why use something marginal? Use a .45-70, lift them off their feet and lay them down on the spot. It seems I've been through this .223 discussion a hundred times. My remaining question is Why.
Almost all of us own better deer rifles.

Pete

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 05, 2010, 04:58:53 PM »

A .223 is legal for deer here in NH so I'm not one to tell you not to use one if your kid can shoot it well. There are other options for recoil shy kids, though. I have 3 very recoil sensitive children, 2 girls ages 14 & 11 and an 8 year old boy. I personally would not pick a .223 for them to use mainly due to the noise. I have found that it's not so much the recoil that bothers them, it's more the loud report even if they're wearing plugs and muffs. You mentioned that your shots will be around 50 yards so you might want to consider a pistol caliber rifle such as a .44 Magnum, .45 Colt or .357 Magnum. These are all reliable deer killers from a rifle, are relatively quiet compared to the standard deer hunting rifle calibers and the main thing is they each have next to nothing in the recoil department. My 8 year old boy has no problem shooting my .45 Colt Carbine.

nicholst55 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 05, 2010, 05:58:35 PM »

Quote from: briannmilewis on July 02, 2010, 07:08:56 PM

bullet technology appears to have finally caught up with a caliber that used to be considered inadequate.

Well why not? Everything else in shooting is advancing in leaps and bounds, and so have bullets.

I think Brian hit the nail square on the head here; 25-30 years ago, I flat out considered the .223 to be only very marginally adequate for (very small) Central Texas whitetail deer. A big buck might weigh in at 100 pounds, field dressed. The only bullet that I was then aware of that was suitable was the 63 grain Sierra SMP.

Well, it's not 1980 any longer, and there have been tremendous improvements in bullets in general, and .224" bullets specifically. With our Army and Marine Corps scrambling to find a suitable bullet for the war in Afghanistan, that trend continues.

I still would not personally choose a .223 for deer, but that's a personal choice. I don't run around thumping my chest, shouting that the .223 is only suitable for rodents. If all I had or could shoot accurately was a .223, that is what I would use - with suitable ammunition.

Too many people have been turned off from shooting because of recoil! IMHO, probably the worst thing a mentor can do is to force a new shooter to shoot a gun that they're frightened of - be it recoil, noise, or whatever - that's frightening them.

Shot placement is king; penetration is queen; everything else is just angels dancing on the head of a pin. Regardless of what caliber you're shooting.

Sourdough · « **Reply #44 on:** July 05, 2010, 07:38:02 PM »

I own several .223s, but no way I would let a kid go deer hunting with one. For kids to go deer hunting I use a .35 Whelen, down loaded to pistol ballistics with 180gr pistol bullets. Even small framed little 10 year old girls have no problem with this rig.

60gr of H4831 pushing a Nosler 180gr partition HG bullet at a little over 1900 fps. 18" barrel on a Mauser action, dropped in a Bell and Carlson. Kids love that gun, as does my 4'11" wife.

This load has brought down a few Caribou, so whitetail should be no problem.

wreckhog · « **Reply #45 on:** July 06, 2010, 05:14:11 AM »

Quote from: Couger on July 05, 2010, 02:17:48 PM

A .223 will kill the biggest deer out there - provided the shot is well made with a bullet up to the job!

But I'd recommend ammo used be specifically "built" by a reloader for killing a deer.

Only three-best bullet choices exist in my opinion ......

1. The Winchester 64 grain Power Point spitzer is a proven deer-slayer that seems to hold together well and makes a classic would channel through the vitals (lungs and heart).

2. The Nosler 60 grain Partition is specifcally designed for use in the .220 swift and .22-250 to kill deer, holding together well upon expansion.

3. The Speer 70 grain Semi-Spitzer is specifically designed for use in the .220 Swift and .22-250, but I killed a mature Mulie doe with .223 ammo relaoded with this bullet in 1981. I was well pleased with the performance! Doe only traveled 50-60yds after being hit by a complete pass-through. Left a tennis ball sized hole under the hide where the bullet exited. Sprayed hair and blood for 8-10 feet beyond the exit wound. Estimated MV was right around 3000fps. Shot was at 125-150 yards with a M788 (a great rifle I foolishly sold).

Bought a box of the Speers 70's this w/e. Part number 1053. Gets great reviews on Midway. Got great reviews from the shop I bought them from. We shall see.......

billy_56081 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 06, 2010, 05:17:19 AM »

I think there is a trophy bonded bear claw bullet avaiable in .224 also that would work fine for deer too.

gunnerguy · « **Reply #47 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:45:28 AM »

I have used Barnes 53 gr TSX on mule deer and a wolf. Works just like you would expect a Barnes bullet too. Complete penetration with massive internal damage and a dead animal. I found X-terminator, from Ram Shot Powder to give the best accuracy and velocity with my rifles.
Good luck and get those kids out HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!!

J. J. Magnum · « **Reply #48 on:** July 07, 2010, 10:02:10 AM »

Teaching youngsters to shoot is both a noble and should be a required task. Start them on low to no recoil options like a 22 lr. then move them up to something more substancial. Recoil sensitivity is something I think is more of a head problem than a physical issue.

Growing up here in the lower palm of the big mitten we kept two hunting guns available; a 22 rifle and a shotgun (usually 12 or 16 ga.). The rifle was used for squirrels or rabbits (without dogs); precision with the 22 meant that you could hunt those animals only. If you couldn't hit flying (moving) targets with the shotgun you didn't hunt for anything else. My Dad did his best to teach me to use a 410 but I found it too difficult to hit flying targets with one, so his alternative was a 16 ga. Almost immediately I started to hit flying clays to the point where a box of shells became an investment in developement rather than a waste of money. Our deer hunting around here was the same; you were restricted by law to use a shotgun. Every one of my peers that hunted did the same. Some of the girls used the 20 ga. but for the most part we used 12's or 16's.

I guess my point is perhaps if the youngster does not yet posess the physical development to handle a shotgun then perhaps they are not yet ready to take on big game. Anyone that can handle the recoil of a shotgun can certainly handle the recoil of a 243 or 30 caliber rifle. A 20 ga. Handi will take down a deer quite surely; my 14 year old hunts with such a shotgun.

Handi-Fan · « **Reply #49 on:** July 07, 2010, 12:32:21 PM »

Wreckhog,
I shoot those 70gr. Speers in my 22-250 absolutely marvelous on whitetail. They just don't have what I want in my 223. But, the 65gr. sierra gameking and 55 barnes TSX are outstanding. But my 223 just did'nt have the twist to stabilize the 70's.

Lonnie · « **Reply #50 on:** July 07, 2010, 12:42:51 PM »

Here in TN any centerfire cartridge is legal for use. I would think that a .223 would do the job with well constructed bullets put behind the shoulder in the heart/lung area. You may have a tracking job with little blood flow externally though. I can however, picture the inside of the rib cage filled with blood. I personally would use a Limbsaver slip on pad on the 30-30 and possibly use the reduced recoil loads by Remington. I have used them for my son in a 30-06 and he was by no means a large child at that time and I know they work at the distances you describe for hunting. The good thing about the reduced recoil loads are that you shouldn't have to change your point of impact on your sights with them. This is just my opinion and I think that whatever you choose to do will be O.K. as long as he practices to the point that YOU feel confident in his abilities. Either way you go, Good Hunting! Lonnie.

wallacem · « **Reply #51 on:** July 08, 2010, 04:23:51 PM »

Use a 26" bbl, 55 gr bullet, load it to the max in .223, and you have a fine deer bullet. UYou can get somewhere around 3500-3600 fps with that combo. I killed 40 deer with my 22-250 loaded same speed, same bullet. It did fine, and I did not learn to track a wounded deer till I switched to a Contender pistol. Wallacem