Author Topic: Octagon Barrel.....Part 2 (Read 4919 times)

quickdtoo · « **on:** April 29, 2011, 02:45:46 PM »

In my first octagon barrel project several members suggested a traditional tapered octagon barrel as opposed to the straight barrel I made, so I decided to try one, I used my 405 Winchester Target barrel because I'd really like to hunt with it, but it's so heavy I've never wanted to carry it. Well, it's not so heavy any more!!!

I cut it at the length I can do in two bites on the mini-mill which is slightly over 23½", I tapered it from .860" just ahead of the chamber swell, to .700" at the muzzle. But I'll tell ya, it was a real PITA!! Working with a straight barrel from the get go would be easy, but dealing with the already tapered barrel was really labor intensive to set it up using shims to get just the right amount of taper, a lot of trial an error, heavy on the errors!

The straight barrel was easy once I had one flat done, from then on it was smooth sailing, but there was no smooth sailing trying to add taper to an already tapered barrel. Needless to say, I won't be doing another tapered barrel.

It didn't come out quite as good as the other barrel, but like I said for it, it's good enough for who it's for!

I slapped a little cold blue on it for better pics, once I get it all sanded down, I'm going to nitre blue it, I have 10lbs of potassium nitrate coming from an aquarium supply house, and I have a 40" carbon steel hot blue tank from Midway already, just need to dig my camp stoves out to heat the tank using Marshall Stanton's procedure. FYI, stump remover isn't $3 a pound, the cheapest I found was $8, I paid $3 a pound plus shipping which came out to $4.50 a pound total shipped cost.

Tim

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/58

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2011, 02:58:58 PM »

Dang Tim your becoming quite the machinist.Looks real good.I'm saving my pennies for a small lathe and mill.Would love to try some of this stuff.I can butcher wood pretty good,but I'm more of a blacksmith than a machinist.I do have a close tutor though.Retired after 40 years running a shop.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2011, 03:35:15 PM »

You get big points for going for it!
The jigging up is time consuming, and if you did a couple more you would have improved tooling, jigs and methodology

, just do more

.
Or, maybe next you could do a 'swamped' barrel

.
BTW, how was the chip cleanup?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2011, 03:37:58 PM »

Nice work Tim!

All this talk about cutting off barrels and removing metal has got me lookin' for a new hacksaw blade. First Handi that looks at me wrong is go to get it's nose cut off.

BB

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #4 on:** April 29, 2011, 04:30:57 PM »

Once again, good work Tim. The transition looks a tad bit different on this one. Did you use a larger radius cutter on that part?

Bill

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2011, 04:43:24 PM »

I LIKE IT TIM!!!

~~GOO...~~ ANOTHER GREAT JOB!!!

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:54:47 PM »

Bill, I used the same ½" ball end mill to make the transition, the step is just smaller.

Quote from: gcrank1 on April 29, 2011, 03:35:15 PM

Or, maybe next you could do a 'swamped' barrel .
BTW, how was the chip cleanup?

That thought crossed my mind more than once while cleaning up some of the "errors"!! Shop vac works great for cleaning up the swarf.

Thanks guys,

Tim

Lon371 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2011, 12:37:04 AM »

I was going to hit the "LIKE Button" but I can not find it. Good work Tim.

Lonny

Farrier Matt · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2011, 05:39:00 AM »

Thats sharp Tim. Looks real good.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2011, 12:27:47 PM »

One of those 'nail magnets' with the release handle is great. Gotta watch out though, it will grab tooling too.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2011, 10:33:39 AM »

Fantastic job Tim! Got any hair left under that hat, or did this barrel get the rest of it?

DP

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2011, 11:02:23 AM »

Nope, not much hair left at all, in fact, I haven't been to a barber for over 8yrs, every 3 weeks of so cut it all off myself, then shave it bald!!

Thanks,

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:40:49 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 01, 2011, 11:02:23 AM

Nope, not much hair left at all, in fact, I haven't been to a barber for over 8yrs, every 3 weeks of so cut it all off myself, then shave it bald!!
Thanks,
Tim

There ya go, putting an innocent barber out of work!!........ I do the same myself

That's a nice looking barrel. I wish I'd have learned those skills in my younger years.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2011, 02:30:29 PM »

It's never too late to learn new tricks Pete.

Thanks,

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2011, 02:35:10 PM »

Quote from: petemi on May 01, 2011, 12:40:49 PM

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 01, 2011, 11:02:23 AM
Nope, not much hair left at all, in fact, I haven't been to a barber for over 8yrs, every 3 weeks of so cut it all off myself, then shave it bald!!
Thanks,
Tim

There ya go, putting an innocent barber out of work!!........ I do the same myself

That's a nice looking barrel. I wish I'd have learned those skills in my younger years.

Pete

Same here fellas!!

Cut it all off back in 1993.... gone from a flat top or "high N tight to "peach fuzz" ever since... For the past six or seven its been shaved everyother day.

CW

petemi · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2011, 02:37:59 PM »

Perhaps we ought to start a forum for skinhead handiholics

Pete

bikerbeans · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2011, 02:51:41 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 01, 2011, 11:02:23 AM

Nope, not much hair left at all, in fact, I haven't been to a barber for over 8yrs, every 3 weeks of so cut it all off myself, then shave it bald!!

Thanks,

Tim

I stopped going to the barber also, but my hair (or beard) didn't quit growing. My wife says I scare our dogs and small children.

BB

knight0334 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2011, 04:15:20 PM »

Since you went through so much work, you might as well polish the living heck out that barrel on the outside to give it a mirror-like finish after bluing like how the Colt Pythons had.

SlimPigguns · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2011, 04:55:35 AM »

Great work. An octagon barrel Handi is on my wish list.
I'm another of the skin head mob, though only partially by choice.
Pete

gcrank1 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2011, 05:35:49 AM »

Ive still got hair, but I know its thinning.
Qestion is, if I butch it will I find an octagon head in there?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2011, 06:25:40 AM »

600 grit is as far as I'll go on this one, did 400 on the other one, and it looked great. I'm having second thoughts about doing the nitre blueing with my existing heat sources, the temp is very critical to get a specific color, I dunno if I can maintain the heat the same in the entire tank using multiple heat sources, just a few degrees difference will make the barrel different colors, and going too hot will make it a light blue which I don't want, I'd likely end up with a barrel with multiple colors!

I'm thinking on using a longer BBQ burner to see if it will do the trick, the one I use now just barely boils water, but it's a small burner.

Thanks,

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12501/guntechdetail/NitreBlue_Bluing

Degrees Fahrenheit Color Of Steel
430 Very pale yellow
440 Light yellow
450 Pale straw-yellow
460 Straw-yellow
470 Deep straw-yellow
480 Dark yellow
490 Yellow-brown
500 Brown-yellow
510 Spotted red-brown
520 Brown-purple
530 Light purple
540 Full purple
550 Dark purple
560 Full blue
570 Dark blue
640 Light blue

jon f · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2011, 12:36:42 AM »

Tim, I've seen a home made gas burner made out of Galvanised pipe with holes drilled in it. Worked very well. Had a Gal cap crewed on the end to plug it. Just need a piece of pipe as long as your tank.
Regards Jon

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:47:43 AM »

I researched the burner yesterday, found many experiements, lots that didn't work because the orifice size is critical for proper air mixture, but I just happen to have the parts of an old grill that I think I can make work, copper or iron pipe seems to work best, but for about $25, I can buy a burner that's big enough that has the proper venturi already built.

I used to have a Lyman casting thermometer , found my Lee lead pot, but can't find the thermometer!

So I ordered one, but just got an email that it's backordered for a week or two.

thx,

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2011, 06:33:36 AM »

Tim
That little hobby mill did a very nice job, though very labor intensive. As you know I made two Handi 24" octagon barrels but used a big shop milling machine with an index head. Did the cutting on the side with a 4" carbide cutter 2" end radius. The set up on that big mill is quite easy.Did the job with four tapered passes to reduce heat and also used contineous cooling water. I was abit worried about the non stress relieved steel. The rebore job was done after the octagon milling. This turned both barrels into super accurate specimens.

I have a Ruger#1 in 9.3x74R that has a very heavy barrel and is very unbalanced for me, I may cut the barrel octagon. I also have a 6.5x284 26" that I made octagon and the ballance of this rifle is just outstanding.

I think the Belgium Rust blue job is the way to go, I did a barrel in that fashion many years ago and it did turned out ver well. You only need boiling water to neuter the rust.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2011, 08:51:53 AM »

Quote from: Fred M on May 03, 2011, 06:33:36 AM

Tim
That little hobby mill did a very nice job, though very labor intensive. As you know I made two Handi 24" octagon barrels but used a big shop milling machine with an index head. Did the cutting on the side with a 4" carbide cutter 2" end radius. The set up on that big mill is quite easy.Did the job with four tapered passes to reduce heat and also used contineous cooling water. I was abit worried about the non stress relieved steel. The rebore job was done after the octagon milling. This turned both barrels into super accurate specimens.

I have a Ruger#1 in 9.3x74R that has a very heavy barrel and is very unbalanced for me, I may cut the barrel octagon. I also have a 6.5x284 26" that I made octagon and the ballance of this rifle is just outstanding.

I think the Belgium Rust blue job is the way to go, I did a barrel in that fashion many years ago and it did turned out ver well. You only need boiling water to neuter the rust.

Fred,
It's good to read a post from you again! Your expertise is missed. At least I have missed your posts if you have been in other areas of the board.

Don't be such a stranger !!

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2011, 09:09:24 AM »

Thanks Fred, I'm going try the nitre blueing on at least one barrel, will do at least one frame too to see how it looks.

What CW said!!

Tim

AtlLaw · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2011, 10:53:54 AM »

Hey Tim, is that Belgium Blue worth setting up a tank for? $:-\$

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** May 03, 2011, 01:31:01 PM »

The Belgian Blue is what I used on the other octagon barrel, all it requires in boiling water, I made a tank from a section of galvanized gutter with end caps soldered on, cost less that $8, I used a micro torch to solder the ends on using plain old acid core solder. I just modified my gas grill to heat it up to near boiling.

This barrel will be nitre blued which uses melted potassium nitrate, since it needs to be around 600º, the gutter water tank won't work due to the soft soldered ends, and I don't think the galvanized metal would be a good thing either. I'll be using the tank I bought from Midway for that, I'm cutting it down to a more useable length, then welding an end back on, 40" is way more than I need and makes it harder to heat, I'm thinking 25" which will do my 23½" barrel over my 24" grill.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #28 on:** May 03, 2011, 02:52:17 PM »

cwlongshot.
As you may know I go to AZ for the winter and the internet there is not very good and may people usining the computer and keep screwing up the computer. I have given up to use it. Other than that I am around the H&R
forum but have not much to say. Still after so many years the same old problems come up. Not much improvement as far as new Handi's are concerned. Still a lot of poor shooting Handis coming from the factory.

I see you are from Conneticut they make some very fine shotguns there. Saw a very beautyful 20 SXS at the Yuma Gun show. Would have bought it if I could bring it back to Canada. The same factory also makes the Model 21
Winchester SXS same as the origional to your specs.

Well I try to do a few more posts if I find a subject to write about. There is so much talk about ejectors and extractors, myself I would not have a Handi
with an extractor. Fred M.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2011, 06:02:52 PM »

Fred, any subject you talk about, I'm all ears! Glad to see ya back on line, we miss ya during the winter. I too prefer ejectors to extractors, if I lose a piece of brass, not a problem. I want the brass out of the chamber when I open the action, most of the time, not needed, once in a while, it is. Tim, your project is coming along great, congratulations, yer gonna have a one of a kind Handi. (Just like you, my friend.

) DP