Author Topic: Octagon Handi Barrel  (Read 8841 times)

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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2011, 12:27:44 PM »
Got the barrel rechambered, took 3½hrs and a couple blisters even wearing gloves, I'll never do another 44mag to 444 Marlin rechamber by hand again, just too much metal to remove.  :'( The chamber did come out good, polished it a little with a piece of 600 wet/dry affixed to a bore mop, looks good, with just a very faint ghost of the original chamber, not near as much as was left in my 357Mag to Max chamber.  ;)

To locate and help maintain the position of the forend stud for reattachment, I made a simple fixture using ¼x1 mild steel and a .375" pin from True Value, it worked sweet, once the mounting surface of the stud is prepared, in this case milled flat, I tinned it and the barrel, then clamped it in position with a spring clamp, heated the barrel with a propane torch, when the silver solder melted and the clamp seated the stud, I applied pressure to the end of the fixture towards the pivot to make sure the stud was in the right place, once it was cool I could push the pin out of the pivot and the stud was perfectly positioned, the forend fits perfect.

Last night and this morning I made a fixture to help mark the barrel, it's just a piece of 1" electical conduit split lengthwise with a slot cut in it, to that I soldered a piece .375"x1" 4140 that I milled on once side with a 1" ball end mill, then "adjusted" the edges of the cut so it fit the contour of the fixture, it has a ¼" "window" milled in it to help align the steel stamping tools which are ¼" square, the fixture can be pushed onto the chamber swell and stays in place while doing the marking. My first attempt marking the barrel is much better than any I've done before, but practice makes perfect, making sure the stamp is held at the same angle is much easier than doing it free hand, not perfect, but it's good enough for who it's for!!  ;D

Tim

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline mechanic

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2011, 12:34:13 PM »
Man, if you had a full machine shop, you'd be competin' with those guys on TV.  The Sons of Guns folks.  No telling what you could turn out.  When you finish this project, I've got a couple I'll send you......... :D

Great job Tim, can't wait to hear how it shoots.

Ben
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2011, 12:35:36 PM »
Tim,

Nice work, can't wait for the finished product.  BTW, what's the rental rate on the two "fixtures"?

BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2011, 12:50:14 PM »
Lookin' GOOD!
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2011, 12:52:26 PM »
BB, I'd rent em for shipping and a donation to GBO. ;)

Thanks guys, I have to proof the barrel next, may even forego the cold blue, been researching proof loads, apparently SAAMI uses 33-44% over a nominal load which I think means start data +33-44%, but not sure about that yet, anyone know? I did some checking with Quickload, 30% over the H4198 start data puts the pressure at just over 60kpsi CIP which is about 2kpsi over the 30-06 max CIP of 58740kpsi, they don't give the SAAMI PSI rating of the 444, just CIP.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2011, 02:07:28 PM »
I did some checking with Quickload, 30% over the H4198 start data puts the pressure at just over 60kpsi CIP which is about 2kpsi over the 30-06 max CIP of 58740kpsi, they don't give the SAAMI PSI rating of the 444, just CIP.

Tim

Do you have video capability? ::)

BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2011, 02:36:56 PM »
To me, proofing a barrel with 'blue pills' is separate from proofing the action/frame. I wonder what kind of fixture they might use at the barrel making facility? Maybe, unlike some other countries, since we have no proof of 'proof' requirement it does not really get done at the factory (definately not at any kind of a 'proof house' here).
Again, to me and this is just me, overstressing something, even if it doesnt give out on that test, is taking it how far toward failure; maybe the next shot I take with my face behind it?
Ive built up a few things, and modified some others, then tested with 'top book loads' to my satisfaction, but thats just me...........
Now that I have made that confession, bring on the flaming brands.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2011, 03:40:23 PM »
I dunno for sure what the factory uses, probably a machine rest of sorts, but I'll use the lead sled, strap the rifle to it, then pull the trigger remotely with a string, real high tech, eh!!  ;D

Since the SB2 frame is good for 270 Win at 65kpsi and the breech force at 60kpsi is the same as the 30-06 with identical case head size, there shouldn't be a problem with a max 444 Marlin load and then some, so what I'll probably do is just a maximum load and go from there, the hunting load I ultimately want to shoot is a 275gr Hawk bullet and a case full of RL7, the 280gr cast loads by Marshall Stanton and Powderstuffer look like good "proof" loads to me, I'd work the jacketed loads up based on those loads.

Tim

http://www.loadswap.com/comments.php?table=Rifle_Data&id=143

http://www.loadswap.com/comments.php?table=Rifle_Data&id=160
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2011, 03:57:47 PM »
Nice job Tim :D
I think the 444 Octagon will handle a lot more pressure than the guy on the recoil end can  ;D
Looking forward to the followup reports
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2011, 04:13:53 PM »
Just want to make sure George, I don't know for sure what steel H&R is using in that barrel, used to be 4140, but with cost cutting efforts they may have went to 1137 for the 357 and 44 mag, probably not, but I'd at least want to shoot it remotely with a healthy load to make sure there's plenty of chamber and barrel wall left after the weight loss program!  ;D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Mike H

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2011, 06:48:57 PM »
Nice job Tim.  Everything looks good.  :)

Offline Spanky

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2011, 06:59:32 PM »
It's really coming along great Tim. That fixture for the barrel stud is so simple it's genius. ;D ;)
Nice work.



Spanky

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2011, 09:33:30 AM »
Just to clarify: What I was referring to is not the idea of a machine rest/lead sled which tests the whole action/frame & barrel assembly, but a fixure which holds only the barrel to proof. I know its not likely anybody here will build such a thing, I only pitched it out as speculation that the barrel plant, if they proof test barrels at all, may have an adjustable rig they 'strap' a barrel into. I rather doubt the action/frame & barrel are 'proofed' after fit up on the line. I suspect that the best they do is test fire with factory ammo.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2011, 10:14:49 AM »
I kinda figured that's whatcha meant, thanks.  ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2011, 05:02:46 PM »
Tim,
 I totally agree on the caution you are taking on making sure it will be safe under  shooting conditions.When I build my ultra lite 357 stubs I start with 38 Special target loads and work up to the "Proof Loads". I use a modified Shooting rest with the rifle clamped in and a Long piece of cord to pull the trigger!If you have a piece of the barrel material that you have cut off I have access to a Rockwell Hardness gauge that I would be happy to check it with.If you do not maybe another member that has cut a similar barrel off could send me the cutoff to check.(Sure is nice to have a son that runs a MEGA dollar machine shop ;D)
The more I see the pictures the better it looks!
George
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2011, 12:07:00 PM »
Here are some more pics, barrel is done except for the final finishing which I'll do after test firing, slapped some cold blue on it for now, but it needs some more sanding, the bluing really makes the scratches show up!  ???

George, I don't have a section of this barrel, I haven't cut it shorter yet and don't plan on it, the muzzle looks fine to me, I was concerned how well it would look since it didn't remove all of the round contour, but thanks.

It weighs 6lbs-6oz as shown, so no need for more weight loss.  ;) I have another TDC stock coming with a BC Carbine forend that may end up on it if it matches one of the stocks. I used a Numrich scope rail, it's perfect for the compact scope, I cut it down a bit so it sits a little lower, and put an addiitonal slot closer to the front also, used low Burris Zee rings, sure wish they still made extra lows.  :-\

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2011, 07:16:28 PM »
Oh Tim!  That is so cool!  You done good!   ;D
Richard
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2011, 07:23:18 PM »
Thanks Richard, it will be real cool if it actually works!!  ;D

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Spanky

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2011, 07:44:56 PM »
It looks great Tim. ;D Are you gonna polish it up real good and send it out to be hot blued?



Spanky

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #79 on: April 09, 2011, 08:01:19 PM »
Yes, after I make sure it's going to be shootable, I have a lot of finishing to do on it first tho, it's very labor intensive, just don't want to spend all that time on it if it's gonna blow up on me!  :o

I also want to try another cold blue that looks very promising, check out the videos, I made a hot water tank out of a section of galvanized gutter with end caps soldered on, holds 1 gallon of distilled water, heat it on the BBQ, the Belgian Blue will be here next week, I just used Oxpho Blue on it so far to see what it would look like, but that will come right off with white vinegar. I made the water tank 30" long so I can do a 24-26" octagon 45-70 BC barrel....if I decide to! ;)

Thanks,

Tim

http://www.artsgunshop.com/site_map_MediaCenter_Video.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrdESVrBA_Y

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=belgian+blue&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_en___US424&q=belgian+blueing

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7604/Product/BELGIAN_BLUE

http://www.brownells.com/1/1/40995-express-blue-1-4-oz-express-blue-1-mark-lee.html

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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2011, 05:41:58 AM »
Between GBO and your projects, I don't know when you sleep Tim.  It looks fantastic, at 6lb, 6oz. she's gonna let ya know it's not a 22 settin in your hands. :o   I do like the 444 chambering better than the 45-70 myself.  I think ya made a very wise choice. 8)  DP
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2011, 03:11:11 AM »
I do like the 444 chambering better than the 45-70 myself.   8)  DP

careful DP, folks have been tarred & feathered around here for statements like that! ;D

BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2011, 03:35:58 AM »
I do like the 444 chambering better than the 45-70 myself.   8)  DP

careful DP, folks have been tarred & feathered around here for statements like that! ;D

BB
I know :o, I'm not real quick anymore, but still pretty sneaky. ;)  DP
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2011, 05:55:49 AM »
One word DP, retirement!!  ;D 

Thanks,

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2011, 06:21:36 AM »
Very nice Tim  Very nice. Kurt
Deceased 2/16/24
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2011, 07:07:17 AM »
I do like the 444 chambering better than the 45-70 myself.   8)  DP

careful DP, folks have been tarred & feathered around here for statements like that! ;D

BB
I know :o, I'm not real quick anymore, but still pretty sneaky. ;)  DP



Thanks DP... I just choked on my oatmeal when I read that. ;D ;D That's darned funny!!



Spanky

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2011, 07:52:52 AM »
I also want to try another cold blue that looks very promising, check out the videos, http://www.artsgunshop.com/site_map_MediaCenter_Video.htm

Very interesting Tim!  While I wouldn't really call it "rust Bluing" it definately looks like it would be worth a try.  I'd love to hear a detailed report on the stuff!  Please let us know how it turns out!
Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
Support your local US Military Vets Motorcycle Club

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2011, 09:20:58 AM »
Thanks!! ;)

Richard, I tried a form of homemade "rust" bluing before I did the Oxpho using the hot water tank to test it and the procedure itself, 1 cup H202, 1 tsp white vinegar and as much sea salt salt as I could dissolve in it, it goes on and immediately turns rusty, then turns black in the hot water, but it was real uneven and took several repeated cardings and still didn't get even close to an acceptable look that the Belgian does with the same work, the Oxpho was much better with a lot less work, I repeated the treatment 6 times with the homemade formula, but it wasn't very promising, dunno if my H2O2 is too old or the sea salt wasn't the right kind, but I'll be sure post the results of the Belgian blue, the reviews on it were all excellent at Midway. I have several other barrels that I want to do, so this barrel is my guinea pig!  ;D

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=958388
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2011, 12:19:29 PM »
 Tim, that came out great! Congrats

Lonny

Offline Metaldoc

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Re: Octagon Handi Barrel
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2011, 01:14:53 PM »
The galvanized tank may not be a good idea.   I used to have a bluing setup and made all the tanks from steel and was told at that time to not use galvanized steel.  I did some googling and found this warning on a bluing how to site...

Quote
Never allow salts to come into contact with any galvanized metal. The
reaction is violent and the fumes are deadly.

Maybe this doesn't apply to the method you plan to use, but don't want to see ya get hurt!

Edited to add link to bluing tutorial.        Hot Salts Bluing