Author Topic: ENOUGH!!!!!!!  (Read 12944 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2007, 08:47:39 AM »
so the manipulation of the American citizens is nothing new !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline prairiedog555

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2008, 01:01:13 PM »
I still am at a loss to understand why the Northern industrialists wanted to curtail economic growth in the South.  I know that rich bastards wanted to profit on the war, but why destroy a customer, the South, that buys your goods?

I think it was more about the overwhelming religious opposition to slavery.  People were much more dedicated then than now in their beliefs.  If you look at Kansas you will see that thousands of people from the North moved here just to vote against slavery.  That amazed me.  And in turn many Southerners moved to Kansas to promote slavery. 

One thing for sure, that kind of dedication to ones values, North and South, was very commendable.  Not like now.
If people got fired up over issues that effect our country like in the 1860's we would have a better country I believe.  And crooked politicians, child molesters, drug dealers and the like would be dealt with accordingly.  I am ready for a stout rope and a strong limb.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2008, 07:33:29 AM »
the slave was of little use in the factory as their education was not advanced at that time in history was the reason the north had no problem with wanting it ended ! As we were told in the 60's and 70's public schools of the South !
now that may or may not have been true as the duties they preformed in the  South seemed to take knowledge !
at any rate the slave was little more than a pon in the political scene of the pre War Of Northern Aggression . Not much has changed today ! the south had other Markets than the North , taxes and other political interest may have seemed favorable to the South or not , like the fall out from the war of 1812 etc.
to place the burden of the Civil war on the backs of slaves is BS !
The bottom line is many things needed to be straightened out or thrown out , slavery was only one !
in the finial analysis north or south will have to admit we became a stronger country !
being a son of the SOUTH I for one realize the north could not have made it without the South !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline phalanx

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2008, 11:21:41 AM »
New Guy here ,i have been reading this all for about an hour. Our Government is slipping  into something neither North or South wants to see ,or ever intended to happen. Everyone in the world it seems wants to cut our throat ,and they could care less if we are Blue or Gray . Our Borders are open to about anything ,and as a result our entire culture is changing. In every war this Nation has had sense 1865 every American has died ,And if we hadn't been America, North and South ,Hitler would have had it made everywhere.My family came here as Solders during the American Revolution ,yes Red Coats , Many of them were Hanged for siding up with this new country ,or not following orders they felt were wrong against a people who had Befriended them. Or were left behind to die after England fled this land. Likewise Many relatives died wearing Blue and Gray. This is fun to talk about but come on ,it ain't worth a fight. just my 2 cents.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2008, 01:16:48 AM »
I don't believe anyone fights the war with a straight face today !
we all repeat the same thing that was said a thousands times before !
and i believe in THE U.S.A. today ! especially THE SOUTHERN PART !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline deltecs

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2008, 05:01:17 AM »
I don't believe anyone fights the war with a straight face today !
we all repeat the same thing that was said a thousands times before !
and i believe in THE U.S.A. today ! especially THE SOUTHERN PART !

When I grew up in the 50's the Southern States were predominantly Southern Democrats.  Now it appears like they are all right wing conservatives.  Has the South changed its political mentality or have the Northern States lost its industrial mentality?  As a yankee right now I'm all for Southern conservative values.   ;)
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline phalanx

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2008, 05:05:43 AM »
OH i totally agree on the Southern part , Funny how the states that Succeeded are the ones who now are doing what they can to Keep it America.
The States in the Mid West are also , The American Indian is so fed up some of them are saying the people who are running the show now ,are not the ones they made treaty's with,making those Treaty's null and void.
The North East is so far left now days it almost resembles the old Soviet Union.
About the only place where you don't see the Constitution trashed or ignored is in the South and west.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline deltecs

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2008, 05:22:48 AM »
OH i totally agree on the Southern part , Funny how the states that Succeeded are the ones who now are doing what they can to Keep it America.
The States in the Mid West are also , The American Indian is so fed up some of them are saying the people who are running the show now ,are not the ones they made treaty's with,making those Treaty's null and void.
The North East is so far left now days it almost resembles the old Soviet Union.
About the only place where you don't see the Constitution trashed or ignored is in the South and west.


Alaska is still pretty Constitutional and except for the metropolitan areas of the State, fairly conservative.  I agree with the western part of your post with the exception of the West Coast States.  California, Oregon and Washington are all fairly liberal states.  As for the North East, I couldn't agree more.  I'm originally from PA when it was conservative.  I cannot believe the liberal mentality there now.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2008, 06:35:39 AM »
Today JFK would be REP.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline phalanx

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2008, 06:55:32 AM »
deltecs : I live in a Mid west state ,and what i said about the Native American tribes is true.
Here it is the Apache ,They have a long hatred of Mexico dating back long before the White Man ever showed up.
And they are furious that our Gov. isn't stopping the migration of Illegals coming from Mexico.
The treaty they signed stated that the Federal Government would protect their land from any further encroachment,or loss.
Illegals cross into their land constantly and they feel the US Gov. is doing little, if anything to stop it.
The Apache was also guaranteed the same right as you granted by the 2nd Amendment.
And they feel that no man can tell another man he can not defend his, or his family's safety ,with what ever weapon he sees fit.
Or to be able to hunt to feed that family.
If they had not been given that right ,they would not have signed that Treaty, only have been left defenseless to their enemy's, or the ability to feed themselves.
And they will never give up a right they have had sense their beginnings.
I have heard them make this speech.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline deltecs

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2008, 11:56:06 AM »
deltecs : I live in a Mid west state ,and what i said about the Native American tribes is true.
Here it is the Apache ,They have a long hatred of Mexico dating back long before the White Man ever showed up.
And they are furious that our Gov. isn't stopping the migration of Illegals coming from Mexico.
The treaty they signed stated that the Federal Government would protect their land from any further encroachment,or loss.
Illegals cross into their land constantly and they feel the US Gov. is doing little, if anything to stop it.
The Apache was also guaranteed the same right as you granted by the 2nd Amendment.
And they feel that no man can tell another man he can not defend his, or his family's safety ,with what ever weapon he sees fit.
Or to be able to hunt to feed that family.
If they had not been given that right ,they would not have signed that Treaty, only have been left defenseless to their enemy's, or the ability to feed themselves.
And they will never give up a right they have had sense their beginnings.
I have heard them make this speech.

Makes a pretty strong argument in favor of 2nd Amendment rights everywhere, doesn't it?
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline phalanx

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2008, 12:53:30 PM »
deltecs: A joke around here is , what stupid ,poor, Law enforcement officer is going to have the unfortunate job of going onto the Apache , or worse the Sioux nations , and tell them . People i am here to tell you you have got to surrender your firearms to me now ? Or later if they put a grace period on it ,and none of them comply ?  Guys i am here to pick up ,well about all of you ? We need a bigger bus. Dose the name Custer mean anything to you ? I think most of America will surrender their guns ,From the ones i know on the Res.none of them will.
This was not in their treaty ,or their history ,or their culture ,and would be the last slap in their face.
These are not the round face ,get drunk and sleep on the road people you have heard of,these people look like a night at the WWE.
Like one told me ,This is not going to happen to us again , We exist as a nation ,as a people ,or we don't exist at all.
Its the young ones ,the educated ones, and from the Money they rake in on gaming ,they have had years to spend it well ,On who knows what.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline phalanx

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2008, 01:29:30 PM »
Also i have asked the young ones ,Lawyers ,Teachers ,How they feel about the whites. They smile and say we were the stupid ones.
And they say if it hadn't been you ,it would have been someone else.
The way our people were 200 years ago ,there is no way they could have stood for long against much.
At least it wasn't Mexico ,They saw us as nothing but slaves for the Rancho Grandies.
And like what is happening to your culture ,they would have taken ours over also ,except by force.
You gave us a nation ,Small as it was ,it was still ours.And many of our young men died fighting wars to protect the Nation that protected ours.
You seem to have a short memory of the ones who died for this Nation ,or the reason they had to die ,and allow those who are not your brothers in spirit , to make you forget those who were.

He went on but, i think you get the point ,Like in portions of the South ,what is it the Nations are telling us ,what is happening here ?
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Online Dee

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2008, 01:44:29 PM »
OH i totally agree on the Southern part , Funny how the states that Succeeded are the ones who now are doing what they can to Keep it America.
The States in the Mid West are also , The American Indian is so fed up some of them are saying the people who are running the show now ,are not the ones they made treaty's with,making those Treaty's null and void.
The North East is so far left now days it almost resembles the old Soviet Union.
About the only place where you don't see the Constitution trashed or ignored is in the South and west.


phalanx, I am one of those "native Americans" whose ancestors sided with the Confederacy. I am Cherokee, and not only proud of that fact, but of our alliance with the South. Foremost, I am an American, and I will NOT give up my God given rights. I despise political correctness and refuse to participate.
In your opening remark here, you state that it is funny how the states that Seceded are the ones whom now are doing what they can to Keep it America. I would contend that, with the exception of slavery that, that is precisely what the southern states were doing when they seceded. Keep it America! You know. States Rights, individual rights, less government ect. That is what that war was actually about, and what the next one will be about also.
Apathy, and hopelessness has taken over most of the populace but, not all. Sometimes men and nations have to find themselves on their knees before they realize it is time to stand for what they believe, instead of talking about what they believe. I have four children, and only one seems aware of our situation as a country. The other three seem absorbed in the carnality of present day America, and are as apathetic as the rest of America. My 8 grand children I hope do not follow suit, but they are young yet.
When the man rides upon your porch, and you hand him your gun, he will be back for something else. I have never known the government to give back any thing it ever took. So, one must be willing to sacrifice every thing to retain one's dignity. With out dignity, then there is nothing left worth having any way. At least that is the way I see it, I'm old now, and the loss, won't be missed anyway. My dignity, and that of my family is important to me, and I will fight for it, if for nothing else. I suppose I have become a modern day dinosaur. :(
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline phalanx

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2008, 04:18:27 PM »
DEE :
I am proud to know you ,and i wish you and yours the best that is. I do not know your Nation , But i have read of it.
Yours unlike others were not allowed to settle in lands that were yours ,or not much of them.
For to many years the Nations have been deplicted in a way not befitting your morals or honor.
You have survived through times that most people would have collapsed under ,and have only been seen as the lies that were written about you ,by those who had no idea,as did the South.
I am not your Liberal from California ,that thinks by acting like you ,i may become like you,to somehow make myself better to the Earth,without the knowledge of who you really are.
I came here when i was young from England ,and my kind tauted me as ,red coat, My friends became the Apache ,and the Britt's like you were on the side of the South.
And i never stood there and said ,Hay i have Indian in me too !! as the Apache say so many whites say,they just respond  ,yea so do i.
In a lodge ,there is a copy of the Treaty they made with the US Government ,i have read it ,and the things granted them are almost being tread upon.
And yes the South was trying to uphold the way America was meant to be , But the way the South ,like you ,have been portrayed,in the past ,perhaps isn't what the History books say it was.
 i was trying to make a point of who is doing what is right,so those who believe what was said in the past ,may see who is doing what needs to be done now ,casting doubt on all that was said before.
The ,,People i know ,,feel the same way you do ,and they, like you fear for their children,and it is their birth right to own a weapon.
A right that goes back Century's  before anyone wrote the 2nd Amendment.
Remember ,it was my kin ,who ran the Naval blockades to supply the South. The same ones who granted the South safe Escort in international waters.
And at the end of the War ,Escorted some ships to safety.
I like you am an American ,i was born in Texas, but at 2 years old i went to England.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2008, 03:04:51 AM »
DEE !
NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and about giving up the gun thing , wouldn't bet on it ! the felons are not allowed guns and most seem to have them !
you might just start a new class of criminal that's all !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2008, 09:38:55 PM »
OH i totally agree on the Southern part , Funny how the states that Succeeded are the ones who now are doing what they can to Keep it America.
The States in the Mid West are also , The American Indian is so fed up some of them are saying the people who are running the show now ,are not the ones they made treaty's with,making those Treaty's null and void.
The North East is so far left now days it almost resembles the old Soviet Union.
About the only place where you don't see the Constitution trashed or ignored is in the South and west.


phalanx, I am one of those "native Americans" whose ancestors sided with the Confederacy. I am Cherokee, and not only proud of that fact, but of our alliance with the South. Foremost, I am an American, and I will NOT give up my God given rights. I despise political correctness and refuse to participate.
In your opening remark here, you state that it is funny how the states that Seceded are the ones whom now are doing what they can to Keep it America. I would contend that, with the exception of slavery that, that is precisely what the southern states were doing when they seceded. Keep it America! You know. States Rights, individual rights, less government ect. That is what that war was actually about, and what the next one will be about also.
Apathy, and hopelessness has taken over most of the populace but, not all. Sometimes men and nations have to find themselves on their knees before they realize it is time to stand for what they believe, instead of talking about what they believe. I have four children, and only one seems aware of our situation as a country. The other three seem absorbed in the carnality of present day America, and are as apathetic as the rest of America. My 8 grand children I hope do not follow suit, but they are young yet.
When the man rides upon your porch, and you hand him your gun, he will be back for something else. I have never known the government to give back any thing it ever took. So, one must be willing to sacrifice every thing to retain one's dignity. With out dignity, then there is nothing left worth having any way. At least that is the way I see it, I'm old now, and the loss, won't be missed anyway. My dignity, and that of my family is important to me, and I will fight for it, if for nothing else. I suppose I have become a modern day dinosaur. :(

Dee it's great to know you and in my humble opinion you are no dinosaur. Those who sit in silence, praying not me, are the dinosaurs. I know it seems bad because the media plays up all the bad. Just think of all the fine young men and women stepping up to the plate in service of our great country. I don't know where they come from but it just seems that when most needed they step up, God bless them all.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2008, 04:46:29 AM »
The states that succeded did so to keep it American back in the day ! ALSO !!!!!!!!!!!
STATES RIGHTS VS. Federal control !
Slavery was but one issue !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Ga.windbreak

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2008, 07:52:58 AM »
The states that succeded did so to keep it American back in the day ! ALSO !!!!!!!!!!!
STATES RIGHTS VS. Federal control !
Slavery was but one issue !

You hit the nail squarely on the head and since we lost it's been all down hill.
"Men do not differ about what
Things they will call evils;
They differ enormously about what evils
They will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton

"It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners. Anytime you quit hearing "sir" and "ma'am", the end is pretty much in sight."-Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men

Private John Walker Roberts CSA 19th Battalion Georgia Cavalry - Loyalty is a most precious trait - RIP

Offline ironfoot

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2008, 03:39:11 AM »
The states that succeded did so to keep it American back in the day ! ALSO !!!!!!!!!!!
STATES RIGHTS VS. Federal control !
Slavery was but one issue !


"back in the day" states rights was code word for the right to maintain slavery.
There were other issues, but slavery was THE issue.
Act the way you would like to be, and soon you will be the way you act.

Offline BBF

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2008, 05:58:06 AM »

I'm amazed how often and in how many forums the name Hitler comes up regardless whatever the topic was. ::)
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Online Dee

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2008, 11:16:08 AM »

I'm amazed how often and in how many forums the name Hitler comes up regardless whatever the topic was. ::)

I am NOT AMAZED, that a Canadian whom has already given up most of his rights, would naturally NOT understand Americans being indignant when someone wants to take theirs.
I am an American sir, and Hitler and his friends tried with little success to kill several of my relatives. He and his kind are NOT spoken of well down here, so get over it. I would imagine that he is a folk hero to YOUR government.
In Canada they jail preachers for speaking out against gays, and they REGULATE whether your worthy of owning certain guns, and DIS ALLOW you to own certain other guns. ::)
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2008, 07:55:41 AM »
Dee ! good post !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BBF

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2008, 09:50:20 AM »
I believe you are going to have much more to worry about what rights Canadians have given up,the type of firearms a civilian has any use for and can own or what preacher gets jailed. As far as Hitler or the use of the name is concerned,  there are other individuals prior to and after that have had deplorable conduct. I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to you when the Russian bear growls again. The Soviet Union is gone but not the people that were in power, they just use a capitalist system now. Red China, a real threat, Hitler was nothing compared to what is coming, and Obama will be in the WH unless he has an accident IMO
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Online Dee

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2008, 02:22:37 AM »
Forget history and you are condemned to repeat it! That is the issue of Hitler. If Russia and China come here, they will probably cross Canadian soil to get here. What KIND OF GUNS one has use fo,r is not a question to be answered, or decided by the government, UNLESS one is in Canada. YOUR GOVERNMENT has RESTRICTED YOUR GUN OWNERSHIP AND YOU HAVE ACCEPTED THEIR JUDGEMENT! ::)
That Obama will be in the White House is a real possibility, but the true American conservative will not hand over guns just because the government says to, as the Canadian has.
Your government OPELNLY ALLOWS known terrorist organizations to exist in Canada. Although feebly I too believe, we at least try to rid ourselves of them.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline SouthernByGrace

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2008, 05:21:33 PM »
Ironfoot, I'm new to this "discussion" and I can't help but wonder; where are you from? Not to belittle your points mentioned earlier, but, DUDE! ... I'm being as polite as I possibly can... You are in dire need of a TRUE History Lesson. I say this with a grin on my face, as I'm very aware that the "history" you've learned was surely derived from a text book written... let me see... somewhere in the North. Now, as we all know (or should know) that the history of armed conflicts (i.e. wars) is always written by the "victors". We also should realize that 99% of The War For Southern Independence (or The War of Northern Aggression, as some people call it) was fought entirely in the South, thereby making it a war of aggression on the part of the North. That being said, there are some key FACTS you should be made aware of. The Library of Congress would be a great place for you to check these facts. I did. They are ALL there, preserved for all who will look. Let me start with the root cause of the war. It was over MONEY, just like every war that has ever been or ever will be fought. Let me explain. In the 5 to 10 years leading up to the outbreak of the war, more than 80% of all tax revenue in America was paid in by the Southern States, while they realized practically NO benefits from these taxes. The money was used to build infrastructure (i.e. roads, railways, modernizing cities, etc.) ONLY in the Northern States and none was spent in the South. The Northern ports had raised their tariffs so much the southern goods had to be sold where the producers could see the highest profits, overseas. The Northern States tried to dictate to whom these southern goods be sold to, thereby forcing the producers to sell to the north and pay higher tariffs to enter northern ports. (Does taxation without representation ring any bells?)
THAT being said, let's move on to the issue of slavery, which has always been taught as being THE one and ONLY cause of the war.
First point... not one single slave was ever brought to the South through a Southern port. Why not? It was illegal. The Confederate Constitution actually outlawed importation of slaves 7 1/2 years before the U.S. did.  Only the Northern ports were allowed by the government to import slaves. They were actually owned by the Northern business people until they could be "sold south" , thereby creating a very lucrative market for them up north.

Second point... less than 6% of Southerners even owned any slaves. Would it make any sense for 94% of the population to fight to preserve something they had no part of? This 94% fought to defend their homes and families because the Union forces literally invaded the South. It was not until 1863 that Confederate troops entered Pennsylvania (Gettysburg).

Third point... Slavery existed in the North DURING the war. Look it up. Ulysses S. Grant owned slaves until after the war. 
The South pleaded with Lincoln (who was openly racist; read his campaign speeches.) to allow the same form of abolition as the North was privy to. The laws in the North allowed that "any slave born into slavery before (a certain date) in 1838 shall remain a slave for life. Those born after this date shall remain in slavery until the attained age of 21, thereby allowing the Northern slave owner to have such opportunity as to not lose the value of his "property". But guess what happened just prior to the 21st b-day of these oh-so-fortunate slaves... you guessed it... they were "sold South", guaranteeing the property owner would not suffer any monetary loss whatever. Why would they, our freedom loving friends from the north, do such a thing?  MONEY! If these slaves were allowed to remain as freemen in the North, they would be in competition with whites for jobs. Plain and simple.

Fourth point... Abraham Lincoln had almost NOTHING to do with freeing the slaves. Have you actually ever READ the Emancipation Proclamation? It freed absolutely NOBODY!! First of all, it was NOT a legal document. It was a political ploy by "Honest Abe" to stop England and France from giving their support to the South. It had no legally binding authority. Secondly, the CSA had been a separate country (had its OWN government and Constitution) for more than a year an a half. The E.P. had no more legality here than it would have in Russia or Spain. The very slaves that remained in the North  (or Northern controlled territories) are actually EXCLUDED from freedom... Imagine that... He was trying to free people he had no jurisdiction over while leaving those he could free in bondage. Hmmm... Thirdly, The slaves were not freed until 1868, three years after Lincoln's death, when the 13th Amendment to the Constitution was enacted.

I could go on and on about this, but there isn't enough room here. I try to at least show a well researched viewpoint in a way such as not to insult anyone.  I hope you can at least partially see my point. Nobody I know of today believes slavery should still exist. Every expert I've spoken with agrees that had the war never been fought, slavery would have ended naturally within 15 years because of the advent of machinery and technologies being introduced at the time. These same experts also say that had the South won their independence that reunification of the two countries would have occurred well before WWI, out of necessity.
Don't get me wrong. I am PROUD to be American. I am also PROUD of my heritage. I know from documented evidence of many many more truths of this terrible time in our history that will never be allowed to be taught to the youth of today. I encourage ANYONE who seeks the absolute, documented truth on this to read it for themselves. The Library of Congress is a perfect place to start. (www.loc.gov
"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees..."
Final words spoken by Gen. Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson, CSA

Online Dee

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2008, 02:10:53 AM »
The South seceded because of EXCESSIVE TARIFFS on exports of textiles to Europe, which Lincoln promised to double if elected. Your trying to re-write history my friend with a Lincoln-Northern slant.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2008, 01:48:22 AM »
Dee the slant is to justify their actions . Greed looks bad but freeing slaves sounds Noble !
One only need look at the civil rights abuses in this country to see that whole races of people were abused after the war much like the children of divorced parents . Realize that the freeing of slaves or anyone else for that matter was BS on old honest Abe's part !
Look at native Americans or the Chinese !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Online Dee

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2008, 12:22:09 PM »
SHOOTALL, I am, as they like to say NATIVE AMERICAN. I am Cherokee. My father was a full blood. I am well aware of civil rights abuses.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline littlecanoe

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Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!!
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2008, 03:38:08 AM »
Just found and read this post.

SouthernbyGrace, EXCELLENT overview!!! I live about 30 miles from Lincoln's birthplace here in KY.  I had the northern view crammed down my throat all through school and it was only as an adult, looking back for myself, that I came to a purer understanding of the truth of the war.

Dee,  I'm finding that you and I stand on very common ground in spite of some theological differences. ;)  I like your spirit.