Author Topic: Winchester's New Haven plant done (Read 2726 times)

myarmor · « **Reply #30 on:** January 19, 2006, 07:24:54 PM »

I too hate to hear about this turn of events for Winchester. They have been around for so long and have so much history, especially in American firearms. They lost a lot of respect from dedicated fans when they sold the name years ago and made partners.
From the Old West to Jack O'Connor to Carlos Hathcock. They made their mark.
Hate to see it all gone, and over to overseas brands.
-Aaron

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #31 on:** January 22, 2006, 11:35:43 AM »

Quote from: Slamfire

All you Tikka, CZ, Howa, etc buyers. I hope your neighborhood don't git run down because of the loss of jobs in America. :roll:

I don't know about that. I bought my Howa from a sporting goods store in Pennsylvania, USA, from an American sales person. They ordered it from an American company, Legacy Sports, in Virginia, USA. I'm not sure that I see the "loss of jobs in America", sounds like they may have created some.

MH

DavOh · « **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2006, 12:59:00 PM »

Quote from: Maryland Hunter

Quote from: Slamfire
All you Tikka, CZ, Howa, etc buyers. I hope your neighborhood don't git run down because of the loss of jobs in America. :roll:

I don't know about that. I bought my Howa from a sporting goods store in Pennsylvania, USA, from an American sales person. They ordered it from an American company, Legacy Sports, in Virginia, USA. I'm not sure that I see the "loss of jobs in America", sounds like they may have created some.

MH

There's a difference between some schlub behind a counter who just wants to make a sale, and someone who's proud of what they do, and proud of the job they get done at the end of the day. America is now a consumer based society, and unless we the consumber public start buying American MADE products EN MASSE... well.... let's say history repeats itself. America is the Rome and or Greece of our day... and unless we learn to satisfy our needs/wants domestically, then we will suffer the same fate as those "magnificent" societies. Only much sooner. I'm not talking about militant empirial dominance, but rather the economic DEPENDANCE on foreign trade, labor, and money.

"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future."
-??? I dont remember

And WalMart is leading the way down this dark and treacherous path.

TomC1426 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 24, 2006, 07:00:33 PM »

Visited my local dealer the other day and he had just got back from a show. What he told me was he heard a humor that Winchester would be back in two years, but would be made in Japan.

As far as overseas vs American made, it is just my opinion, but it reminds me of the early '70s when the American car industry were producing poorly designed cars competing with the Japanese cars. The American consumer turned their collective backs on the big 3, and starting buying Japanese cars because they were better quality at lower prices. After losing a good portion of the market, they started producing better quality.

This to me only shows that the big 3 were living off from their name and brand loyaty. Not that they could not make good cars, which they've shown lately, but they weren't motivited. So for my hard earned dollar, I find myself agreeing with Bladerunner.

Tom

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #34 on:** February 01, 2006, 08:33:56 AM »

[/quote]

There's a difference between some schlub behind a counter who just wants to make a sale, and someone who's proud of what they do, and proud of the job they get done at the end of the day.[/quote]

That "schlub" behind the counter can be just as proud of what they do, and proud of their job at the end of the day, too.

MH

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 11, 2006, 09:19:26 AM »

No need to say anything against salespeople, but if our nation does nothing but buy and resell, not produce anything, we're in for trouble. WHAT IF something happened and our borders were cut off? Could we survive? That's the big deal.

azmike · « **Reply #36 on:** May 12, 2006, 07:56:37 AM »

Quote from: TomC1426

Visited my local dealer the other day and he had just got back from a show. What he told me was he heard a humor that Winchester would be back in two years, but would be made in Japan.

As far as overseas vs American made, it is just my opinion, but it reminds me of the early '70s when the American car industry were producing poorly designed cars competing with the Japanese cars. The American consumer turned their collective backs on the big 3, and starting buying Japanese cars because they were better quality at lower prices. After losing a good portion of the market, they started producing better quality.

This to me only shows that the big 3 were living off from their name and brand loyaty. Not that they could not make good cars, which they've shown lately, but they weren't motivited. So for my hard earned dollar, I find myself agreeing with Bladerunner.

Tom

Yup.

Now it 2006 and you can buy your Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans made in the USA. But one of Ford's largest plants is in HERMOSILLO, SONORA, MEXICO. I believe in buying American, and I hold my nose every time I pass a Walmart, but I will go to great lengths to avoid spending my money on a product by a US company that has shut dowm stateside and outsourced prime manufacturing jobs (but I am a hypocrite I suppose. I'm sure my Dell PC was made in the PRC or India. Sometimes you are just stuck with what is on the market).

You should see the trainloads of Fords that come north from Mexico. Those trains are almost always empty going southbound.

Rant off. Sorry for the temporary hijack.

I for one am sorry to see Winchester go, even though my only one was made in 1906.

Mike in Ct · « **Reply #37 on:** May 15, 2006, 11:45:28 PM »

It is just a name..the quality & innovation was gone years ago...Lawyers & unions & the bottom line guys saw to that...business in these united states must produce $$$ big money to stay here..guess how they do that...Either they get a competitive edge production wise,by investing in the best tooling/machines..not likely..or they build what looks like a quality product in a familiar package..There is nothing in this world you can't make worse for a dollar less...We know they all cut corners on everything made in USA..they have to...Labor & energy costs are too high to really produce quality here at an affordable price...Sad thing is most americans [sportsman would pay a few dollars more] to buy a really nice american made high end rifle...I sight the Cooper rifle as one of the biggest bargains out there...Take any odd remchester with a just so so barrel & trigger & crappy walnut stock...700 bucks ?? OK ?? add a custom barrel & trigger job...You could have bought a Cooper...MADE IN USA made right the first time for that kind of money...Winchester & remington should be producing a high end custom finished rifle on the call/demands of the customer...They could & should have but don't...People will pay & pay well for upgrades on specialty items like rifles..Yes you should have the basic well made platform to start with.. but to not have 3 or 4 upgrades available is just bad business in that market...When these execs see a Sako selling for more than twice the price of the REMCHESTER & they can't figure it out they deserve to be on the unemployment line...These fat cat bottom line morons ran COLT into the ground & then winchester..whos next

..mike in ct...PS I know bottom line is everything but the execs who fail to build what consumers want to buy & keep costs under control to only protect shareholder "perceived" value instead of building a real product deserve that fate...

msorenso · « **Reply #38 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:33:47 AM »

Has any other company been looking at Winchester?

Lone Star · « **Reply #39 on:** May 16, 2006, 03:59:58 AM »

Mike is right. While missmanagement plays a big role in the decline of many US companies, one reason for the sad state of GM - for example - versus the Japanese companies is labor costs. No, not wages - benefits. GM now spends more money on Human Resources than it does building cars. How can they ever compete with firms which do not have this burben? The answer is simple - they cannot. To stay in business they have to compromise quality and design. The results are obvious. To blame them for not building cars today of the same quality or design as current foreign makers ignores the economic facts - they cannot do it because the cars would not compete in price.

Years of strikes and bullying by Big Labor, along with spineless management willing to postpone the pain, got GM to this point. GM is hardly alone - the same issues plague many US companies, including gun makers. Using class envy to blame the "rich guys" is akin to being an ostrich, unaware of the real problem.

This post is not anti-labor by any means, it is simply meant to open the eyes of those who close them to facts in favor of emotional class hatred.

Syncerus · « **Reply #40 on:** May 16, 2006, 05:01:39 AM »

Start rant here.

This is the natural consequence of Socialism. Just because we, in America, refuse to call a policy Socialism for political reasons, doesn't mean that it isn't Socialism. And it doesn't mean the policy won't produce the same effects as Socialism (failure).

End rant here.

I'm just as bummed as you guys are about the end of Winchester as we know it.

Syncerus

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 16, 2006, 07:37:12 AM »

Apparently some of these companies DON'T know how to watch the bottom line, because their bottom line is going bottom up.

People forget that quality is part of the bottom line. When they forget that, those who don't forget that get the business and their bottom line shows it.