25-06 vs. .308 for deer.... any thoughts? worthy of p'dogs?

[DavOh]

I'm looking at numbers on various different calibers and am... ahem... considering getting a new gun for my self. I've hunted with a Remington 788 in .308 for most of my hunting experience, and a .243 before that. I'm reluctant to put that old .308 out to pasture as it's produced more venison over the years than probably ever will.  But, I'm curious about the .25-06 as it seems a great comprimise between the .308 and the .243. Very nearly as flat shooting as the .243 and close to the energy of the .308.(less energy out to about 300 yds, then more but with a 120 gr as apposed to the 150 gr .308) Now, I'm comparing the two based on Remington's website and ballistics charts. Anyone have practical experience with one or both calibers for comparison? Prefferably on Whitetail.

[Dave in WV]

The most impressive cartridge for whitetail deer I have used or witnessed used is a 25-06.

[one eye joe]

I have been using a .25/06 since the early 70's. Most Deer never take a step. I use 120 grain bullets, while my dad and brother both use 100 grain in theirs. For Deer and Antelope it is hard to find a better round for open areas. I do not feel it would be my primary choice for woods hunting. As for the .243, I have one. I have also seen and heard of more Deer wounded with this round than any other two rounds. Most of this is poor bullet choice, but I prefer the .25 calibers.

[Butler]

I have shot the 30-06 for deer with excellent results for years,this year I gave it a break and used a benelli sluggun for deer,taking a muley and a nice whitetail.I also have a 375 for moose and bears.I wanted a good long range rig that could be used for coyotes and deer.I went with the 25-06 for the caliber and am currently working up loads.Thank goodness the weather is so wonderful here in alberta to allow this at this time of year.So far I am very impressed with the accuracy of this round out of the little stevens and the trajectory is VERY PLEASING!! The recoil is next to nothing as well. I am using 100 grain bullets.Makes me smile every time I pull the trigger and is a cartridge not everyone has at least up here..Old 30 will have a few more years rest with this new addition I think..

[beemanbeme]

The best compromise between a .243 and a .308 is a 7-08.  THE primo deer rifle.

[bladerunner]

I bought a Tikka T3 lite,and they only come in one action length (long) so a 7MM-08 wouldn't have shortened the rifle any....so I got the 25-06...I like this caliber very much and don't think you would go wrong with it.....but a 7MM-08 is a very fine choice as well

and yes,I'd say P-dogs are definatly on the 25-06 "prey" list

[Coyote Hunter]

DavOh -

Do yourself a favor and get off the dime.  The .25-06 is a great cartridge. They represent a watershed as far as I'm concerned, the largest caliber really suited for varminting, yet large enough for mulies. And with good placement and good bullets, they will reliably take elk.

The only reason I don't have one is I stumbled into a minty .257 Roberts with a Leupold scope at a price I couldn't refuse while on my way to get a .25-06.  The Roberts has a 22" barrel yet the published +P data and my loads are not far behind the .25-06.  It has become my favorite shooter in a bolt gun.  I think the same would be true if it was a -06.

[mountainview]

25-06 was my first "deer rifle" in my youth, it dropped deer, chucks, and crows for me with authority back then and continues to do so. It is a great round and like so many of us, you'll likely be pleased with its performance. Like One Eye Joe, most of the deer never moved after I pulled the trigger.

[Norseman112]

I have taken many deer with my 25-06 and they drop like thunder with a 120 gr speer sp. I use 75 gr v-max on yotes, very flat shooting rifle.

John

[Zachary]

There is little practical difference between the .308 and 7mm-08.  That said, I still prefer the 7mm-08 as a whitetail cartridge.

Don't necessarily look at the "numbers" when trying to decide between cartridges.  I made this mistake many times when I was younger.  I first bought a 7mm Rem Mag because it had the best numbers (next to the .300 Win Mag).  Let me tell you, that gun knocked the snot out of me. In recent years, I have wised up to the "myth" of the "numbers."

Don't get me wrong, there is SOME value to the numbers, but your best bet is what you are doing - ASK PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR ON HAND EXPERIENCE!!!

As such, I can tell you that the .25-06 is an excellent whitetail rifle with 115+ grain bullets.  This is not to say that the .308 not good.  I would consider the .308 for use starting from deer up to elk (yes elk, if shot at relatively closer distances with use of heavy premium caliber bullets.)  With the .25-06, you can use the rifle from varmints (which is what you want), up to mule deer.  Does that mean that you cannot use a .25-06 on elk?  No, but the .25-06 is not as good of a choice on elk as is a .308, a .30-06, etc.

As such, for your intended purpose, I would get a .25-06.

Zachary

[lgm270]

For open country deer hunting and varmint shooting, the 25-06 is  a better choice than the .308 and a vastly better choice than the overrated .243 Winchester.  

I've never hunted with a 25-06 but I have hunted with companions who did and I have never had to chase a deer wounded by a 25-06.  I have chased many deer wounded by other peoples' 243 and  after a number of exasperating experiences I had to deliver an ultimatum to one of my oldest, and dearest friends:  Get rid of your .243, go back to  an adequate deer caliber or get someone else to go hunting with. It's not fair to ask those of us who shoot adequate rounds to spend our valuable hunting time trying to chase down cripples wounded by the .243...a vaster overrated caliber in my personal experience.  

In my observations, the 25-06 (in the hands of someone who is a good shot) kills as reliably as a 270 and is vastly superior to the pathetic 243.  

I know the 243 cultists are very zealous in their devotion to this caliber and will say no more in the interests of not being lynched.

Try the 25-06 with the 90 grain Barnes X bullet.  You can get 3,400 fps or so and the Barnes X bullet will perform well on deer sized animals unlike other  87-90 grain bullets which are intended only for shooting varmints.

The .308 will also kill deer sized game reliably, but is not as fast or flat shooting as the .25-06.  

Best to you regardless of which choice you make.

[DavOh]

LGM 270....

I understand your stance on the .243 as this is for most people a valid concern....

HOWEVER.... I NEVER Lost/wounded/or even had to trail a deer.  Every one dropped in their tracks. 11 deer in 3 years... but then, I do my part and use a proven projectile. Shot my first deer when I was 9.

I think alot of people with the 243 make the mistake of shooting the wrong type/wt of bullet. My uncle and grandfather have/had taken more deer than I can count with a .243 win. I probably saw more deer run as a result of a small .270 bullet than ever with a .243.

Of course, there's the .223 we could bring up.......

 
[/b]

[Zachary]

I'm originally from Houston, and we used to go deer hunting all the time.  Texans love .223s and .22-250s on deer.  Me?  I would never use either one.  I have seen people use .222s (not even .223s) on wild boar - they just shoot them in the ear, and they drop.  Again, I use MUCH bigger guns on wild boar - even up to .375H&H.

I don't remember me personally shooting a deer with a .243, but I think that, with a good 100 grain bullet, like a partition or Barnes-X, or equivalent, with good shot placement and relatively close shots, like 100 yards or so, a .243 should be fine.  Heck, I have witnessed my uncle take2 big 10 pointers at about 200 yards away and they dropped straight down.  I don't want to mislead people that a .243 is a magical cartridge, though.  I just want to comment that, in the hands of a skilled shooter, a .243 is fine for deer.

Zachary

[Don Fischer]

I am not a big fan of the 243 but I also know that if you do your part a 22LR will drop a deer like lighting. Also if you DON'T do your part, a SAC missle will allow a deer to run off with a wound. The ability of a cartridge to kill doesn't lie in the dia or even the weight of the bullet; it lies in the ability of the user to understand how to best use what he has and to carefully choose his shot, or her shot.

With that said, the 308 only really makes a better woods cartridge because it's avaliable in better woods rifles. And for most of us the 25-06 offers no open practical country advantage over the 308. The big plus for the 308 is that it works well in barrels only 20" long. You can go shorter, I just don't like shorter as a personnel preference. That means that the rifle can be made shorter and quicker handling. Same can be said for the 243, 260, 7mm-08, 7x57, 8x57 and 358 win. Of these the 243 using such light bullets really should preform better with a longer barrel and even tho they come in short barrels, they are castrated that way. This does not even mention the shorter 308 action length, which I find a minimal advantage if any.

I have used both cartridges on deer and as near as I can tell, the deer are always just as dead with a good shot placement from either one. When I hunt open country, my choice is my 25-06 with it's 24" barrel and 3x9 scope. When I hunt timber, my choice is my Rem 660 in 308 with an old Redfield 2 3/4x widefield. You could do as well with either rifle in a number of different cartridges.

[lgm270]

LGM 270....

I understand your stance on the .243 as this is for most people a valid concern....

HOWEVER.... I NEVER Lost/wounded/or even had to trail a deer.  Every one dropped in their tracks. 11 deer in 3 years... but then, I do my part and use a proven projectile. Shot my first deer when I was 9.

I think alot of people with the 243 make the mistake of shooting the wrong type/wt of bullet. My uncle and grandfather have/had taken more deer than I can count with a .243 win. I probably saw more deer run as a result of a small .270 bullet than ever with a .243.

Of course, there's the .223 we could bring up.......

 
[/b]

I've seen posts by numerous people like you, who profess to have enjoyed great success with the .243 on deer.  I've noticed that they have a number of things in common.  1.  They are usually good hunters.  2.  They are either hand loaders who use Nosler partition bullets or they are knoweldgeable shooters who carefully choose their ammunition and 3.  They are good game shots or.  4.  All of the above.

I respect the skill and success of these expert shooters and hunters.    I can only say that my observation of the .243 in used in western mule deer hunting has revealed it to be a dismally inadequate caliber.  I'm referring to the larger bodied mule deer found in colorado, wyoming and utah.  I've hunted in west Texas and some guys used the 243, and the 22-250 for that matter, with success.  There is a vast difference between a 125 lb. West Texas white tail and a 250 lb. Rocky Mountain Mule deer.  

One of the 243 fans in the West Texas hunt on a private ranch showed up a couple of years later on a guided mule deer hunt on a private deer ranch in Colorado where the deer are about twice as big.  His little 243 that performed so well on smaller Texas deer was a dismal failure on big Colorado mule deer.  He had to empty his rifle twice to stop a medium sized mule deer buck.  This guy was an experienced hunter and an excellent game shot.  He owned a farm in Michigan and was a year 'round sportsman who shot varmints, game birds, etc. as well as deer.

I repeat:  In my experience the 243 is not an adequate round for larger western mule deer, or large deer anywhere for that matter.  

I've known several guides who offered guided hunts for wild hogs on private ranches.  Overwhelmingly, both said  the 243 was just not up to the task on large wild hogs.

[DavOh]

Granted that WhiteTail is the largest animal I hunt. So I understand and anything bigger especially mulies or some of the larger hogs or even elk, its to the .308 I would go. Maybe someday I'll get to go after one of those. Even with whitetail, I havnt used the .243 since I picked up the .308 ten or so years ago.

I plan on a .243 for my wife for next year because of the recoil, or lack there of.  She's never shot anything but a little matthews target bow before, so I'm going to start her on a 22lr for technique this spring. When she startes printing good groups with that, I'll move her up to the .243 this summer for practice for next year. She doesn't know for sure if she will actually pull the trigger on a deer, but she said she'd try. Which makes me a happy camper since 3 1/2 yrs ago when we got married, she couldnt understand why I hunted. (Due to the lifelong brainwashing efforts of my anti-hunting in-laws) I'll never forget the look of her mother's face when my wife told her she wanted to hunt.  :-D I tend to bring the subject up from time to time just to bug her.  :-D Not in a rude way, but in subtle little ways.

But like I said, .243 when properly handled is plenty suited to central texas Whitetail. Oh, and I always used Remington 100 Gr. Soft Point Core Lokt ammo. Accurate and hard hitting. Never had a deer that the bullet at least wasn't just under the skin on the other side. Even on the one I shot at about 250 odd yards. Hehe, that was the one I learned to make sure the muzzle is awayfrom the truck mirror when you shoot....  :oops: First shot, one dead mirror, second shot, one dead spike.

-Davoh

[Don Fischer]

How long do you have to hang a mirror befor you cut and wrap it?

[mitchell]

For open country deer hunting and varmint shooting, the 25-06 is  a better choice than the .308 and a vastly better choice than the overrated .243 Winchester.  

I've never hunted with a 25-06 but I have hunted with companions who did and I have never had to chase a deer wounded by a 25-06.  I have chased many deer wounded by other peoples' 243 and  after a number of exasperating experiences I had to deliver an ultimatum to one of my oldest, and dearest friends:  Get rid of your .243, go back to  an adequate deer caliber or get someone else to go hunting with. It's not fair to ask those of us who shoot adequate rounds to spend our valuable hunting time trying to chase down cripples wounded by the .243...a vaster overrated caliber in my personal experience.  

In my observations, the 25-06 (in the hands of someone who is a good shot) kills as reliably as a 270 and is vastly superior to the pathetic 243.  

I know the 243 cultists are very zealous in their devotion to this caliber and will say no more in the interests of not being lynched.

Try the 25-06 with the 90 grain Barnes X bullet.  You can get 3,400 fps or so and the Barnes X bullet will perform well on deer sized animals unlike other  87-90 grain bullets which are intended only for shooting varmints.

The .308 will also kill deer sized game reliably, but is not as fast or flat shooting as the .25-06.  

Best to you regardless of which choice you make.

so i guess your a big fann of the 243 arn't you??? :-D

[MikeyB]

Really depends if you want to stay with a short action or go to a long action. Both will serve you well. I have a 25-06 but don't hunt with it, the stock doesn't fit me and I don't want to butcher it up to do so.
I think the .270 Win is a little more versatile than the 25-06 but that's just me.

MikeyB

[DavOh]

How long do you have to hang a mirror befor you cut and wrap it?

huh wha??? :?

[Grizzly_A]

The 25-06 is an excellent round for deer.  My father-in-law's Ruger prints dime sized groups at 100 yds.  It's his favorite deer rifle and it's taken his fair share of the deer he's pointed it at.  My brother-in-law uses a 308.  

It's an excellent caliber for deer, it's also a excellent caliber for p-dogs...but in a different sort of way. (www.dogbegone.com comes to mind) Everyone has their little favorites though.

[robk]

my round my all around round is the 308. whether your after hotes or elk that is what i shoot. i would also recommend you getting some of the new accubond bullets and throwing them down range when you go. you will find out that he accubond is a great all around round for you. if snipers have used the 308 round for all these years then they must know something and i can say this. i have not found a factory or reload that won't shoot great out of my encore.
308 is a great caliber and you will always find a 308 round in an emergency
rob k

[fun_gunner]

I have both rounds, only in 30-06, not 308.  My experience has been that the 30 cal in 165/168 gr is devestating on deer.  They just drop - even with belly shots.

The 25-06 with 120gr Nosler Partition is also devastating - I've shot deer at 240m and had the round go all the way thru them, but they drop like rocks.  There soomething about that bullet - it hits hard at high velocity.

This year I took a doe with a 100gr Sierra SPBT; about 210m, perfect vitals shot.  The darn thing jumped straight up, then ran about 10 feet.  The bullet went trough that deer and made a very little exit wound.  I know it's only a sample of one, but I prefer the 120s.  

BTW - I also have a BLR in 243 and it is a great dog gun - very handy and the 243 with light bullets is a great perfomer on varmits.  With 107s, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer.

I'm from Nebraska and many out in the western part of the state hunt deer with 22-250.  I guess it's wide open enough in the sand hills its easy to find them when the run off.

[longwalker]

The 25-06 will serve you well. I have a Ruger M77 MKII shoots very well with 100 grain bullets and 56 grains of IMR 4831. I have used it successfully on Mule Deer, White Tail Deer, Antelope and Prairie Dogs. IN my way of thinking The 100 grain bullets give me the extra speed and thus slightly flatter trajectory I bought the rifle for in the first place. The Deer both died very fast. Antelope dropped on the spot even out past 350 yards. Prairie dogs? Just have fun, but watch the heat. The 25-06 burn a much larger powder charge tha most "varmint" rifles. The advantage when you want to take that really long shot you can be a little more instinctive. In my opinion.

Good luck,

Longwalker

[rs]

had my first custom wildcat built in 1960 it was a 25-06 this caliber has been one of my favorites for varmits ,whitetails ,muledeer,antelope and most any light to medium game,its never let me down,shoots very flat.and is very accurate........!

[lilabner]

The 25-06 is outstanding on deer - sudden death in most cases. It is also quite accurate. Recoil is not at all bad because of the light bullets, but it would not be my choice for shooting prairie dogs as it burns a lot of powder, is louder and has more recoil than the 22s.

[Lawful Larry]

As you can see, many guys are telling you how good the .25-06.  Well I went with the .25 WSSM and love it.  I took a nice doe at 180 yards and she went right down.  

I am very impressed with this caliber.  Look into it.  It has the same ballistics as the .25-06, but in a short action.  

[handirifle]

In my opinion, "based soley on the numbers" since I have never owned or shot a 25-06, is stick with the 308.

Let me quote you the nembers pasted right from the Remington site ballistics comparitor.

First off, let me suggest dropping the 150gr loads for a 165gr one in the 308.  This is a comparison of rem factory ammo with the 25-06 and 100gr loads and the 308 with 150gr flat base and a 165gr boattail.  I know the boattail had the advantage over the flat base and the 25 could have the same thing.  I just say this cause ther is no need to buy a new rifle, UNLESS he just wants to.

That said, here are  the numbers. Also, not maening to start any war, as BOTH are proven deer killers.

Also, please note that with the boattail bullet there is only a whopping 3.4" difference trajectory, AT 400 YARDS, when zero'd at 200.

Numbers below are listed in Velocity first then Energy, then trajectory.  The 120gr listing is the 25-06.

Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R25063 Remington® Express® 120 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.362
R308W1 Remington® Express® 150 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.314
PRA308WB Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.447


Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 120 PSP CL 2990 2730 2484 2252 2032 1825
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2820 2533 2263 2009 1774 1560
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AT BT 2700 2501 2311 2129 1956 1792

Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 120 PSP CL 2382 1985 1644 1351 1100 887
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2648 2137 1705 1344 1048 810
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AT BT 2670 2292 1957 1661 1401 1176


Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 120 PSP CL 1.6 1.4 zero -2.8 -7.2 -21.4 -44.1
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2.0 1.7 zero -3.4 -8.8 -26.2 -54.8
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AT BT 2.0 1.8 zero -3.4 -8.6 -24.8 -50.1

Like I said, these are the "numbers".  The 308 is hard to beat when using a 165gr load.

[Butler]

I do find my 25-06 with 100 gr bullets at around 3200 fps much easier on my shoulder than a 30-06 or 308 for extended shooting sessions.Love the 165 gr hornady in my 30-06,never seen anything like that for deer!