Author Topic: .30/06 to .338/06  (Read 2092 times)

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Offline tanoose

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.30/06 to .338/06
« on: September 03, 2005, 06:53:19 AM »
Could someone tell me what has to actually be done to to do this to a Remington 700 BDL 30/06 do thay rechamber and put on a 338 barrel or can they actually rebore the 308 to 338 and does it pay to do this with a 22" barrel . What has to be done? Thanks Tanoose

Offline Lone Star

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 10:42:26 AM »
I had my M7600 in .30-06 rebored to .338-06 some years ago and it worked okay.  No other mods were needed on that rifle.  One problem with a rebore is that if the cutter catches on a hard spot it may cause a small gouge in the bore.  Internal finish may also be lower with a rebore, but that depends on who does it.  

Installing a new barrel means chambering it, headspacing in on the aciton, contouring the barrel, bluing it, and installing sights if needed.  It's usually - but not always - more expensive than a rebore.

Offline handirifle

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 05:20:10 PM »
Over on the H&R/NEF forum there is a guy "quickdtoo" that sent off a H&R 25-06 barrel that was re-bored to 338-06.  Outstanding performance from it.  Get ahold of him for the smith name if you wish.  Not sure if the barrel has to be removed or not.

Cost was about $300 I believe.

This is an email I got from another smith for the same job.  Never used his work but he was reccomended to me by Lee Shaver, a smith I have used and did excellent work.




From: "Norman Johnson" <nrjonsn@westriv.com>

Scott.......The charge for reboring and rerifling is $135.00 with $45.00 for
the neck and throat work and $20.00 to remove and reinstall the barrel. None
of the above prices include return shipping. I am currently at a turn around
time of from 18-22 weeks.
I cut rifle all my barrels and I match the twist rate to the intended use.
For the 338-06 I would use a 10 twist unless you wanted to use the lighter
bullets in which case I could put in a 1 in 11 or 1 in 12
twist............Norman


I believe his price has gon up a little, but not much

Here is his addy
HIGH PLAINS REBORING AND RERIFLING,
243 14 AVE. NEW.,
TURTLE LAKE, NORTH DAKOTA  58575-9410
Sorry no phone number has been given yet.
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Offline panhandle

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30/06 to 338/06
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2005, 12:31:17 PM »
I had one of these built 1 1/2 years ago and am very pleased with the results.  Mine was a very slow 270 Win in a Remington 700 with a 22 inch barrel.  I sent it to Dan Pedersen at Classic Barrel & Gun Works in Arizona, ph 1-828-772-4060 or dan@cutrifle.com.  He reamed and re-rifled the barrel and chambered for a little less than $300.00.  I shooting a Speer 225 Grand Slam at 2620 fps and 3 shot groups stay right at 1 inch.
This is a fairly light rifle and recoil is very acceptable.  I'm using 60.0 grs of RamShot Big Game powder.  Other powders didn't give much vel. but this powder really seemed to work in my rifle.  Good luck with your project.

Offline Lawdog

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2005, 12:51:04 PM »
When switching from the standard .30-06 I prefer to re-barrel/chamber to any of the knock off larger bore '06' offspring(.338-06, .35 Whelen, etc.).  This way I can always go back to the .30-06 if I so want.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: .30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2005, 01:22:31 PM »
Quote from: tanoose
Could someone tell me what has to actually be done to to do this to a Remington 700 BDL 30/06 do thay rechamber and put on a 338 barrel or can they actually rebore the 308 to 338 and does it pay to do this with a 22" barrel . What has to be done? Thanks Tanoose


What is the advantage of the .338/06 over the 30-06?
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Offline jro45

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2005, 09:23:40 AM »
Redhawk,   It would be more powder behind the bullet. You could shoot heaver bullets faster. How much faster I don't know. :D

Offline Lawdog

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2005, 11:10:09 AM »
Quote from: jro45
Redhawk,   It would be more powder behind the bullet. You could shoot heaver bullets faster. How much faster I don't know. :D


I'm wouldn't be so sure about the .338-06 holding that much more powder than the .30-06.  According to my SAMMI specs the .30-06 holds 69 grains of water and the .338-06 holds 70 grains of water(same as the .35 Whelen).  I don't think that 1 grain is going to make that much difference.  I could be wrong as my old SAMMI chart is from 1992.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2005, 11:44:20 AM »
Heavier bullets and/or more frontal mass when the same weight bullets are fired.  

I don't own a 338-06 but did notice that top loads in a 338-06 came rather close to the ballistics of the 338mag, especially when light or medium weight bullets were used.

Very interesting cartridge.

Offline panhandle

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Re: .30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2005, 11:58:28 AM »
Quote from: Redhawk1
Quote from: tanoose
Could someone tell me what has to actually be done to to do this to a Remington 700 BDL 30/06 do thay rechamber and put on a 338 barrel or can they actually rebore the 308 to 338 and does it pay to do this with a 22" barrel . What has to be done? Thanks Tanoose


What is the advantage of the .338/06 over the 30-06?


The biggest advantage that I can see over the 30/06 is the ability to shoot heavy bullets at faster velocities.  Remington has the 30/06 with a 220 gr bullet listed at 2410 fps with a 24 inch barrel and I'm getting 2620 fps with a 225 gr out of a 22 inch barrel.  That's a big energy gain with the same case and starting  to knock on the door of the 338 WM.  I know it's not going to match the WM, but it sure bets the 220 gr 30/06 by a long ways.

Offline Redhawk1

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2005, 02:25:27 PM »
I understood the heavier bullet, because I have a 338 Win Mag. But I thought the case capacity was the same in the 30-06 and 338-06. 30-06 necked up to .338 right.

Why not just get a 338 Win Mag? You would not have to max out the 338-06 to try to get to the low levels of the 338 Win Mag.  Maybe it is just me, but if I feel I need a bigger gun I just get the bigger gun. But we all have our reasons for what we do. Makes it fun I guess.  :D
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Offline bear8mm

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2005, 02:40:41 PM »
I mentioned earlier that the 338-06 is only slightly slower than the .338 Win Mag. Add to that much cheaper brass, and much longer case life. I had a Ruger M77 in .338, and I loved the punch, but didn't like feeding it, so it's gone (traded for 4 Swede m/96's and $70 cash). My next build will be a .338-06.

Offline Redhawk1

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2005, 02:50:03 PM »
Quote from: bear8mm
I mentioned earlier that the 338-06 is only slightly slower than the .338 Win Mag. Add to that much cheaper brass, and much longer case life. I had a Ruger M77 in .338, and I loved the punch, but didn't like feeding it, so it's gone (traded for 4 Swede m/96's and $70 cash). My next build will be a .338-06.



200 to 250 fps is not slightly. But to each his own. Good luck with your project.  :D
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Offline bear8mm

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2005, 04:55:18 PM »
So what would you consider slight? It wouldn't be slight in a slow cast bullet load, or a .22. As an example, I just looked in Hodgdon's #27 manual. For the .338-06 with Nosler 210 gr partition and H414 powder, it lists the low as 56.0 grs at 2603 fps, and the max at 62.0 grs at 2807 fps, about 200 fps just between high and low. For the .338 WM, same bullet, same powder, low is 60 gr at 2617 fps (4 more grains of powder for 14 fps increase) and high as 67.0 gr at 2848 fps (5 more grains for a 41 fps advantage). Don't get me wrong, the .338 WM is one of the truly great cartridges as far as I'm concerned, but I think the 338-06 is a lot more economical for pretty much similar performance. An elk won't know that particular bullet was 48 fps slow or fast. My problem with the .338 WM was the price of brass, and how soon I'd have to toss it. I was using 250 gr. bullets with H450 powder, and the brass would usually only last for about 3 shots. Most of my sporter rifles are in 30-06, or factory or wildcat cartridges using the -06 case (25-06, 6.5-06, .270, .280, 30-06, 8mm-06) so the .338-06 makes a lot of sense for me. I only need 1 shellholder!

Offline handirifle

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2005, 08:37:16 PM »
The 338-06 comes VERY close to factory 338 Win Mag levels of performance.  Of course, some, can push the Mag higher but i it really needed.

The 338-06 outperforms the 30-06 in every bullet weight, with a significant gain in the heavier bullets.  The 30-06 lists loads of a 250gr bullet at around 2200fps.  My 375 Win lever gun pushes a 250gr bullet at 2150.  The two bullets are worlds apart in BC and SD, but such is not the case of a 338-06 and the 250gr.  If memory serves me, the Hodgdons manual shows them at about 2600-2700fps.

When a particular case size is opened up for a larger bullet, the potential velocity goes up with the square of the bullet diameter.  Compare loads of the 270, 280, 30-06 and 338-06, all using 160gr bullets and you'll see what I mean.  There IS an advantage.  In addition, since it does approach the mighty WinMag in performance, where it doesn't approach it is in the amount of powder burned and the amount of recoil.
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Offline bear8mm

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2005, 11:01:57 PM »
Let's not compare apples and oranges (30-06 vs. 338-06), that will make it even more confusing. The 8mm-06 shows similar improvements over the 30-06 also, and I imagine that the .35 Whelen will show similar results. The problem with drawing comparisons between the 338-06 and 338 WM is that the wildcat status of the 338-06 makes data a little more difficult to come by. My Hodgdon manual lists data for both, but contrary to most Hodgdon listings, it only lists Hodgdon powder loads for the 338-06, while it shows powders from all the majors for the 338WM. I didn't just snatch that comparison out of the air, it's one of the few that use the same bullet and same powder in both cartridges. My Hornady manual (5th edition) also shows loads for both, with the same 4 bullets for both. BUT, it doesn't use the same powders in any bullet weight. That makes sense, they are different cartridges, with different capacities. Generally, in the same bullet weight, the 338-06 will use faster powders, while the 338WM will use the slower powders. Still, in every bullet weight, the 338-06 is within 100 fps of the 338WM. Don't think of the .338-06 as "the poor man's 338WM". They are different cartridges, but I think the advantages are slanted toward the .338-06. I already mentioned brass price, and brass life. Both are 30-06 length, and use the same action length. If you are building a rifle, the .338WM requires bolt face opening and magazine conversions (and magazine capacity limitations) that are not required for the .338-06. If price and brass life are of no concern to you, and high velocities are the main goal, you should look at the .340 Weatherby Mag. Something else to ponder is that the .338-06 also comes in an Ackley Improved version. I don't have any data for it (a freind is working up loads now) but I imagine it will match the 338WM, without that stinkin' belted magnum case!

Offline Redhawk1

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2005, 01:20:14 AM »
bear8mm, you make some good points. Thanks for filling me in on that.  :D
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Offline bear8mm

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2005, 05:16:16 AM »
About 10 years back, I was doing a lot of loading for an M1 Garand. IIRC, I was using 47.0 grs of IMR4064 with a 150 gr bullet. That leaves a lot of empty space inside the case, that you can't use in the Garand, probably why the M-14 was developed. The more I looked at it, the more I was impressed with the -06 case. It has enough powder capacity to do anything that reasonably needs doing. Standard head size, cheap brass, no belt, yada, yada, yada. After a few more years went by, I decided to build a series of rifles, all using the -06 case, but all in different calibers. I've got most of the smaller ones done, the smallest being the 25-06. There is also a 6mm wildcat called the .240 Gibbs that I've been thinking about, but it may be too much of a good thing. It is so overbore that barrel life is pretty short. Going the other way, the 338-06 and .35 Whelen are on "the list". I have also been researching beyond the Whelen. There is a .41 cal wildcat that is called the .41 Hawk or something like that, but this requires neck reaming deep enough to seat the bullet. Headspacing method also becomes an issue here, as you lose the shoulder. I haven't found a .375 cal version yet, but that doesn't mean one doesn't already exist. Another one I'm pondering is an -06 case, blown out to a straight walled case with a .45 cal bullet stuffed in it, and headspacing on the case mouth. Kind of a .458WM without the belt. I just measured a .458 WM loaded round, and I'm coming up with an outside neck diameter of .485, so this last wouldn't be feasible without reaming the inside of the neck so thin that headspacing on the mouth would be impossible. Or maybe using a .451 diameter pistol bullet? Or even a .430 diameter 44 Mag bullet? Oh, well, playing with guns is fun, and keeps me off the streets!

Offline Lawdog

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2005, 11:21:49 AM »
bear8mm,

Quote
and much longer case life


You hot load the .338-06 to reach standard .338 win. Mag. levels and your going to loose the longer case life.  The .338-06 is a good cartridge and if you like it great.  I could just never see having one when I could just down load my .338 Win. Mag. to .338-06 levels.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Ramrod

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2005, 12:50:59 PM »
Hey guys, if tanoose wants a .338-06, he wants a .338-06! He didn't ask about the .338 Mag. :lol:

tanoose, here you can get your gun re-barrelled with a model 700 contour, ie, it will fit your factory stock with no alterations, for under $300.

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/
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Offline Redhawk1

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2005, 01:18:01 PM »
Quote from: Ramrod
Hey guys, if tanoose wants a .338-06, he wants a .338-06! He didn't ask about the .338 Mag. :lol:

tanoose, here you can get your gun re-barrelled with a model 700 contour, ie, it will fit your factory stock with no alterations, for under $300.

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/


I had a legitimate question and thought I would give my suggestion. No harm.  8)
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Offline Dirigo

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2005, 01:43:44 PM »
http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/
that is the place Quick got his Handi rebored


338-06 is not a wildcat, since 1998

Offline Ramrod

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Re: .30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2005, 04:52:42 PM »
Quote from: Redhawk1

What is the advantage of the .338/06 over the 30-06?


Yessir, a legitimate question. The answer for me is NONE. But to each his own. Tanoose is looking for a heavy bullet, and judging by his NY location, we are talking woods gun here. This round will probably serve him well. Better that a .30-06? Probably not. A .35 Rem. in a fast handling lever gun is probably a better deal here.
That said, I'm not much for splitting hairs, which is what we are doing here. I'm of the opinion that it takes an increase in bullet weight, or of muzzle energy, of at least 50% to effect any noticable difference in killing power. Probably why I currently don't own anything inbetween the .22 centerfires and the .30 calibers, nor anything inbetween the .30s and the .375 H&H. Where do I go from here? Probably .50 BMG :)  :)  :)
It's the same with my muzzleloaders, they start with .45 (squirrel gun), skip to .58 (deer) and then smoothebore .62 (fun and games after I finish buliding it). If I were to get another one, I'm afraid 10 or 12 bore would be too close to my .62, I might have to look at 4 bores. :shock:
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Offline Slamfire

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2005, 05:39:03 PM »
Dick Nichols, since deceased, did my Savage .243, rebored it to .263 Express, which is dimensionally identical to the later .260 Remington. He said the place most likely to give trouble would be where the front sight was silver soldered on. The price was half the cost of a rebarrel job. I dismanteled the rifle and just sent him the barrel. The twist is 8.5" which gives me good preformance with the 129 and 140 grain Hornadys. I've not tried the 160s yet.   :D
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Offline longwalker

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338-06
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2005, 05:56:38 AM »
I built a 338-06 and copuldn't be happier. First off I wanted something a little different. Second I wanted a gun I could hunt larger game with. Third I wanted this in a "standard" bolt action rifle.  I decided on the 338-06 over a 35 Whelen simply to satisfy my first goal. Rather than rebore I chose to rebarrel. My concern was if I really didn't like the gun I could return it to it's original state and sell it.

My project goals were achieved. As a deer knocker downer it has more and proven it's self.


There is a larger 375 round, the  375 Skovil which I am sure would fulfill anyones need for a large bore round in a standard size rifle.


longwalker

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Offline Lawdog

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2005, 12:29:57 PM »
Quote from: Redhawk1
Quote from: Ramrod
Hey guys, if tanoose wants a .338-06, he wants a .338-06! He didn't ask about the .338 Mag. :lol:

tanoose, here you can get your gun re-barrelled with a model 700 contour, ie, it will fit your factory stock with no alterations, for under $300.

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/


I had a legitimate question and thought I would give my suggestion. No harm.  8)


Same here.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline bear8mm

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2005, 01:17:59 PM »
Yeah, If you look at the cartridge drawings on Steve's pages, they show a .375-06, and a .375 Whelen Improved.  I thought it was kind of interesting that the .375WI was shortened by about .020", and the .375-06 was shortened by about .040" from the standard 30-06 case length. The .375 Hawk/Scovill is also shown and is shortened by about .050"?

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

Offline Barstooler

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2005, 02:28:05 PM »
I started with a high number Springfield 1903 -- that had been customized and chambered in 35 Whelen.  However, the chamber had been reamed based on "spent" 35 whelen case versus a re-sized case.  I found this out after I bought the rifle, which had been built by a guy named Roy Chamberlain, who had worked at the Springfield Armory and then for Roy Weatherby -- back when Weatherby was based in Lewiston, Idaho.  

[This was obviously long before Rem standardized the Whelen.]  Thus the chamber was "loose" but usable, but the rifle was never as accurate as my "other" 35 Whelen.

Thus, when I decided that I didn't need two 35 Whelens, it was a no-brainer to turn the loose-chambered one into a 338-06.  

So I bought premium Shelian 24" barrel.   Cost of new barrel and rebluing the action/barrel and tapping for a scope was $385.  Have added a Timney trigger bought a beautiful piece of walnut to restock.  Throw in a 1.75 x 6 Leupold Var III and I guess I have a pretty nice 338-06.

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Offline bear8mm

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2005, 09:32:58 PM »
THAT  sounds like a winner!

Offline handirifle

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.30/06 to .338/06
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2005, 05:42:27 PM »
Quote from: bear8mm
Let's not compare apples and oranges (30-06 vs. 338-06), that will make it even more confusing. The 8mm-06 shows similar improvements over the 30-06 also, and I imagine that the .35 Whelen will show similar results.


Bear, I mostly agree with you, except that tanoose first mentioned starting from a 30-06 so the comparison is legit.  By the way, the 338-06 in NOT a wildcat.  It has been standardized by A-Square.  So the amount of loads listed will only increase.

The mention of the 338WM was purely to indicate the amount of gain one can achieve with this conversion.  Can it kill more than an '06 with both making well placed hits? I doubt it, BUT a 250gr partition at 2500fps will help a LOT in tough boned animals or a less than perfect shot.
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