Help with H&R Consumer Survey...

[jim_in_fla]

 I received a Consumer Survey from H&R yesterday (yes, I did send in the Registration card). I had no problem answering all but the last 2 questions. In my case, I can't think of a single thing to write down so here's a chance for those of you that either bought a used Handi-Rifle or those of you who chose not to register to give me something you'd like the factory to see. The form says that if I need more space, to attach a separate sheet. I will type up all your good suggestions and attach before mailing it back to them.

Question #1: Are there any improvements or additional features that you can suggest that would be of benefit to future H&R 1871, LLC customers?

Question#2: What new products or accessories would you like to see H&R 1871, LLC make?
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Just FYI, I have an Ultra Varmint .223, 24in bull barrel, laminated stock.
IMO, H&R did an outstanding job on my particular rifle. I've never had any problems with it as long as I kept it clean. It still outshoots my Savage  11 FXP3 .223 and my Handi has had 6,123 rounds through it so far at less than half the price of the Savage.  :-D

[scruffy]

1.  A redesigned hammer that has more of a curve to it that going straight up.  I have other single shots, most really old, that have a more curved hammer that doesn't stick up near as far as the NEF one does.  The lower profile curved hammer would allow for lower scope mounting.  High scope mounting is a common complaint amoung alot of us.  Also, a new hammer design could be done without modifications to the receiver or any other part of the trigger group, as the external part of the hammer would be the only change.

2.  Sell the new hammer as a stand alone for those of us who want to retrofit our existing NEFs to a lower profile hammer.

Something this simple to do I'd hope NEF would give some thought to.  In the article I read last night in field and stream (just came in the mail) they ding'd the ultra slug for it's tall hammer and needing a high scope height.  

A small change like this would make a fine firearm just that much more refined.  :grin:

later,
scruffy

[MSP Ret]

A better (lighter) trigger from the factory. No more than thier minimum weight of 3.5 lbs. It is a shame we have to do our own triggers or send them back to be done almost as soon as we get them, most seem to be delivered at 7-8 lbs. or more!!!

Just have them flush out the shavings and gunk from the receivers before assembling them and sending them out. A simple flush after machining would go a long way to insure reliable funtioning and we would not have to use the many cans of brake and carb cleaner we all go through to clean the metal shavings and gunk out of our new guns...

....<><.... :grin:

[Leftoverdj]

The high recoil guns could use a much better recoil pad and a series of recoil pads in half inch thickness increments would be a boon to those of us much outside the physical norm.

The hammer redesign is the real biggie.

[handirifle]

A barrel (read ALL barrels) with a gradual taper that allows the use of a scope mount that makes contact all the way down.

I agree 100% on the hammer idea above.

A handgun based on the NEF receiver.  (Can you say TC competetion?) They could do a serial number change and only fit pistol barrels to those receivers, to keep the rest of us from making illegal handguns.  Make them so the rifle barrels on the accessory program would work too.

A forend with the sling mount in the front like the survivor model.

[Wlscott]

I like the hammer idea Scruffy.  

I would also like to see tighter tolerences in cutting the throat.  

How much room is there on that form?? :grin:

[dannyk]

I would really like to see an adjustable trigger in the say 3 to 7 lb. range that we could adjust ourselves to our own prefrence.

[Big Blue]

I think the biggest improvement H&R/NEF could make, would be to make their barrels interchangeable, and available from venders. TC has made a bundle off that idea, and I think they could do the same. I don't think TC would have near the popularity it now enjoys if their owners had to send them back to have a barrel fitted. The only other suggestion I'd have would be the one change almost all of us has made to our rifles, and that would be to float or bed the forearms. I'm on board with the trigger and hammer height improvements.
Don

[etothepii]

I like what you guys are saying too, but I like the NEF price where it's at! Some of the suggestions, though good, seem like they would cause a price increase. The hammer idea is about the best.

I would like an a la carte gun program. Choose a stock, Caliber, and barrel(s) to order. Nothing new to manufacture, just a different way to buy. Even choosing multiple barrels for your first gun.

[JimIowa]

I have yet to own a Handi so may not have a right to comment.
But will be ordering a Hornet Friday Morning.
However one thing I have read a lot is the Ejector will throw Brass 10 Ft.
This is not a good thing if your a Re-loader!
I nearly ordered a Rossi because it has an extractor instead of ejector.

Seems to me that has a lot to do with spring tension, if there was a simple screw tension adjuster one could have it both ways, owners choice?

[Big Blue]

I like what you guys are saying too, but I like the NEF price where it's at! Some of the suggestions, though good, seem like they would cause a price increase.

Pay me now, or pay me later. It's an olds saying that I think really applies here. If your looking to have a barrel fitted to your rifle, the cost of manpower to fit that barrel, plus shipping, will far exceed the cost of preparing a rifle to accept various barrels, right off the bat. Especially for the many here that have had many barrels fitted to their originally purchased receiver. The cost of changing the barrel taper to better suport the scope mount can't be all that expensive and better recoil pads, while costing another possible $20.00 may well be worth the additional expense. Fixing the forearm, so we don't have to play with them to keep them from stringing groups, has to be better than having them shipped back by owners that don't know how to fix that problem. The one item I would think might be too costly, would be the idea of an adjustable trigger.
Don

[jbtazgrabber]

a adjustable trigger is easy i have made one 5 years ago ill dig it out sometime an post a pic     small 90 solder to trigger and taped a small screw adj pull    the old models didnt have a hammer transpher bar and were shorter hammered   the old mod h&r parts will fit all the nefs butt  are not as safe  i do most all mine to get the scope down to a low profile but i dont recomened it     i have not had the virtical stringing as you guys           maybe scope too high??       ive had some problems with rifles with high scopes     not as accurate   to me  thats just my own experance

[fish280]

aye on the hammer re-design. the a la  carte idea is a good one, too.
but cost is a major selling point for these guns, and should stay that way.
i've owned several over the years, and always regreted selling or trading all of them except a recalcitrant .44 mag.
got a .308 ultra in the nickle finish last week on a trade. it'll stay in the family. i went ahead and got high rings for it to make sure the scope would fit. but i'll probably do my usual hammer bob anyhow just because it looks nicer. i mill it to the same level as the top edge of the add-on spur. saves better than an eighth inch. a graceful re-design, like that of the old savage and winchester break-actions, would look good and save a quarter inch or more, i think, in scope mounting height.

[handirifle]

Why hasn't someone with the metal working skills from one of these forums started making a re-designed hammer?

You could sell them waaay before you had them made.

[Leftoverdj]

Why hasn't someone with the metal working skills from one of these forums started making a re-designed hammer?

You could sell them waaay before you had them made.

Money.

Handmade would be out of most people's price range and a production setup could not be justified by the limited market. The hammer is a lot more difficult than it looks and even after it is made, it still has to be heat treated and blued. Probably double heat treated because the sear notch needs to be very hard and the striking surface cannot be brittle.

One could buy a factory hammer and forge the spur to a lower contour, but with the need to file after forging, checker or groove the spur, and refinish, we are still looking at several hours work, maybe half a day.  I might maybe do one for me, but for someone else, the hammer would cost $75 to $100.

[Pass the mustard]

More calibers available in stainless.

[bull b 25-06]

I agree definitely more calibers in stainless(maybe even low-glare stainless) or target grey as RUGER calls it.    

[bubba]

1. An extractor sytem instead of an ejector system. The main thing I always hear and experience is stuck cases. An extractor would eliminate that problem.


2. A better breech plug wrench for the huntsman would be nice

[Donaldo]

After spending tubs of $$$$ on bolt actions and high $$$ barrels my grandsons $200 Handi 243 shoots right along with my above mentioned rifles.  So..... I fell for it.  I just got a new Handi in the 223 ultra.  You know it is so crude looking, but kind of sexy too.  Haven't had a chance to pop some caps yet, just been swabbing and rubbbing her a bit and planning.  Am looking for a scope for her.  Something in the 3-10, 4-12 range, under $200.  I ended up getting this rifle brand new for about $225, did some trading.  So for a simi serious plinker I don't want to drop a ton in a scope.  Just for the he!! of it I want to keep it a cheap as I can.  I am now out to prove you can get 0.5 MOA without spending cajillion bucks.  Any ideas on scopes, I am thinking Aetec 3.8-12 or something in that range.

[handirifle]

donaldo

Check this out.  I just bought one.  Haven't heard from the seller yet though, still waiting for shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3695123070&fromMakeTrack=true

[Mac11700]

Jim:

Great Idea.....

I for one agree on the hammer idea...it would be a great thing for them...also the interchangeable barrels...although I don't see them doing that because of the older models that they deem to weak to handle the modern pressures...bedding the forearm...that would be good too...since the failure of  the SS1 rifles...they would definatly be able to fill the void.....but I have a novel approach to all of these.....why can't they do this...give the barrel and receiver a real polish and real bluing job and put on a real nice stock design with a cheek piece or without and a English straight stock for sites....after all they call their best Ultra anyway...they sure as heck could make one like that...and sell it at a higher price for those who wanted to spend the extra...and I feel they would sell as many of the nice ones as the ones their selling now...and to offer all of the calibers past,present,and future ones....


Let's see here....

Smaller... HAMMER... for better scope clearence...(thanks Haywire)
Factory set trigger at 3-3.5lbs
Extractor option
Clean out all the junk before shipping
Better taper on the barrel so you can have a better scope base contact
Totally interchangeable barrels
More Stainless barrels
A pistol configuration like the TC
Bring back all the calibers that have been dropped and add a bunch of new ones
Better lock up for new calibers
Offer more barrel lenght options...up to at least 26" on high pressure(270-308-30-06) rounds...and 28"-30"(357,444,45LC,45-70,) on lower pressure rounds
Better wood options
Better sythetic stock options
Bedding the forearm
Better recoil pads
Better sites...and offer a real tang site
Better fit and finish...blueing and wood to metal fit
Better chamber dimensions...
Which brings me to this one... put the steel forearm spacer and steel trigger gaurd on all models and get rid of the cheap plastic ones


They could do all of this...keep it under $450 and out sell any single shot on the market...


Well that should do it for me...it's a heck of a wish list...


Mac
edited

[handirifle]

I filled out mine and copied all the comments and printed them out and attached to the form.

[Haywire Haywood]

Smaller trigger for better scope clearence

Mac, if your trigger is causing you scope clearance problems, then my guess is that you have other issues not addressed by this list.  :-D   :shock:   :-D   :shock:   :-D

Ian

[Mac11700]

Smaller trigger for better scope clearence

Mac, if your trigger is causing you scope clearance problems, then my guess is that you have other issues not addressed by this list.  :-D   :shock:   :-D   :shock:   :-D

Ian

OOOOOOOPS :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

I will edit that .....my bad...should have been Hammer

Mac

[handirifle]

Mac
I sent mine off before your ideas were on the post.  You have a couple I didn't include.  We need to send these all off to NEF, I especially like the 45 colt idea.  With these long throats you could REALLY push the limits of the small case.  Probably approach 454 Casull levels.

[Mac11700]

Mac
I sent mine off before your ideas were on the post.  You have a couple I didn't include.  We need to send these all off to NEF, I especially like the 45 colt idea.  With these long throats you could REALLY push the limits of the small case.  Probably approach 454 Casull levels.

What ever you do...don't let them know that...or we'll never see it...it'll say the beJesus out of their libility lawyers :wink:

Mac

[jim_in_fla]

What a bunch of good ideas!!!  

I especially liked the 'shorter hammer' idea, that would definitely help accuracy getting the centerline of the scope and bore closer together. I hadn't thought of that one.

I attached your suggestions plus I threw in one more. I would really like to see them offer a nice Walnut stock as an option, I just LOVE walnut. :grin:

BTW, I've been very busy lately, I retired rather suddenly yesterday! I wasn't planning on leaving until Jan 2005 but I hit 'burn-out' a little sooner than expected, 30 years and 1 month was enough for me. Shoot, it's almost 9:00 AM and I haven't even shaved or gotten dressed yet.      
I like it already!!!  IT's playtime!  :-D  :-D  :-D

[DAD]

When I sent mine in I asked for longer  standard barrles and to bring back the Green lamated stocks. The barrels were in referance to the .233 and .243.

[Sourdough]

You know guys I agree with almost everything you have had to say.  A lower hammer would be nice.  Also cleaning the milling debris would also be nice.  readily changable barrels would be a big item.  BUT the main reason I chose the Handi was for it's ejectors, DON'T change that.  Yes I'm a reloader too but in the field I don't cry if I lose a spent case.  The speed of not having to pull the old case out is well worth an occasional lost case to be able to reload faster.  Yes, fractions of a second do count.  I use my Handi to hunt with.  I hunt Moose, Caribou, Sheep, Wolves, and Bears.  Believe me when a bear stands up at 20 yards, you want to make that first shot count.  But, you also want to rechamber a follow up as fast as possible, Just in case.  With ejectors I can rechamber as quick as others can work their bolts.  No the rifle does not leave my shoulder for this process either, but I spent a lot of time getting my action to working smoothly and with no, or little resistance.

[handirifle]

sourdough,
I agree with you 100% especially since there is info available to convert it to an extractor very easily for those that want them.

Me, I want the casing outa there.