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Author Topic: 5.56 in a 223  (Read 1088 times)

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Offline g00dtime

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5.56 in a 223
« on: May 06, 2012, 01:30:31 PM »

I have a 223 Handi and my son has an AR15.Near as I can tell the 5.56 round is nearly identical to the 223 round, at least in size, physically, it will fit in the 223 Handi.
I understand that H&R says using 5.56 ammo in a 223 is a no-no.
The Handi can be fitted with some humongeous calibre barrels, so the receiver can take a lot of abuse, and the breach of the 223 barrel puts about 3/8 inch of steel around the cartridge.
I'd sure like to be able to use the same ammo as my son does. That doesn't mean that I'm going to be using 5.56 ammo all the time, but if that's all we have and I want to pop off a few, why not?


I'd like to know if people stick to the H&R admonishment against using 5.56 ammo in a 223 Handi?

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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2012, 02:14:08 PM »
I asked the same question some time back.  And I'll say HECK NO!!!  ;D I've been shooting Mil Surp 5.56 with no problems and great accuracy for a while.   ;)
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Offline bucco921

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 02:19:31 PM »
Id be lying if i said my first 100 pieces of brass didnt come from milsurp ammo fired thru my ultra 223. But do this at your own risk. I checked the first few i fired for flat primers, hard to eject and swelling around the web. Everything looked fine so i proceeded. I used american eagle so I cant give you feedback for any others.
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Offline smokehouserex

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 02:48:02 PM »
 
 
  I'm at this point with my 223 Handi also. I try to be safe in shooting ect. so I have been doing a lot of reading and asking questions from people "in the know" concerning this issue.
  The most common answer is. shoot them, but from what I can gather is, it can be very dangerous. The .556has a little thicker brass, the overall length is a little different and the loading pressure on the military can run to 78,000 PSI
due to machinegun usage.
  In cool weather the round interchangeability may not create a dangerous condition but on a hot day it could be a problem, according to the G&A March 2010 written in Patrick Sweeney's Article.
  Other articles that I have read give similar info.
  You can form your own opinion but I have not fired any military in mine. I know many people who do shoot them in their various weapons and report no problems so I guess this is a personal decision. JMO
  HM
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Offline jeneks84k10

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2012, 02:53:34 PM »
Ive got some mil-surp ammo that a friend gave me. The first 100 rounds were ok but then I got one that split the brass from the neck to about midway down. Dont plan on using any more of it, dont want to risk destroying a good gun or me for that matter for cheap ammo. Regular factory .223 ammo isnt that expensive anyway.
 
I will say though that what I did shoot was exceptionally accurate.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 03:34:37 PM »
I've seen photos of a couple Handi's with cracked receiver face from 5.56.  I use the brass, but not the mil. spec. loads.
 
Ben
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Offline g00dtime

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 03:40:51 PM »
Wow, that surprises me, Handis shoot 308, 444 Marlin, .45-70, it seems strange that a 5.56 can do that sort of damage. Do you know if they were the SB2 receiver?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 07:15:22 PM »
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Offline ironglow

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 11:11:32 PM »
Here's the straight dope from ATK.. the folks who run the Lake City Ammunition plant:
 
  http://le.atk.com/pdf/223VS556.pdf
 
   It's all in the "leade", the area directly ahead of the brass case, where the bullet parks.  The military chamber has a longer leade, allowing a longer cartridge overall.  When a NATO 5.56 is loaded into a normal .223 chamber, the bullet is already jammed against the rifling.  When fired, the pressure "spikes" until the bullet is forced past the rifling wedge... You may get away with using NATO in a .223 for some time...but..
  To be safe with a .223, use the brass but not the complete NATO cartridges....
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Offline mechanic

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 01:06:34 AM »
Chamber pressure on the .223 is approx. 55,000psi, the 5.56 is 62,000.  Add to that the longer leade, and you could get extremely high pressures. 
 
As comparison, the 30-06 is 60,000 and the 45-70 is 28,000 but both have a larger case head and distribute pressure more across the breech face. 
 
I don't think it's the 62,000 that will get 'ya, it's the unknown variable when the bullet is jammed to the rifling at the time of firing, producing who knows how much pressure.
 
Ben
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Offline smokehouserex

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 10:16:54 AM »
 
 
  Thank you to everyone. I have a clearer understanding now. I try to stay on the safe side, most of the time now as opposed to sometimes pushing the envelope, as in the past.
  Good reports,
  Thanks again
  safety first
  HM
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Offline g00dtime

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 10:44:21 AM »
Thanks ironglove and mechanic, that does put it all into perspective. I think after hearing all that I'll stick to 223 rounds. I went and checked 4D'S reamers and there is a different one for 223 and 5.56.


Thanks everyone, this is why I joined this group...
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 04:57:08 PM »
I do not shoot 5.56 ammo in my handi's, but I do shoot it in my Mini-14s.  Once it has been fired I run it through my .223 resizing dies, then reload it to .223 pressures.  Once reloaded I shoot it in my handi's.  Been doing this for over 15 years with no problems.  My favorite ammo to buy for use in my Handi's is the Ultra Max.  They use surplus military brass.
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Offline bkraft

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »
Could you ream a standard .223 chamber to handle the 5.56 stuff? Just askin...
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Offline mechanic

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 04:13:29 PM »
Quote from: bkraft on May 08, 2012, 03:44:39 PM
Could you ream a standard .223 chamber to handle the 5.56 stuff? Just askin...

I'm sure you could, but why bother?  You can buy cheap commercial 223 now, just as cheap almost as milsurp, and you can pull the milsurp, recharge with known powder, and even reuse the bullets if you watch the COL. 
 
To each his own, but the benefits do not outweigh the risks for me.
 
Ben
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2012, 07:01:52 PM »
Reaming the .223 chamber is far more trouble than it's worth, in my openion.  Plus 5.56 ammo does not shoot all that accurate in my experience.  5.56 comes loaded with ball ammo, not good for hunting.  Only good for killing paper.   Several of my friends use ARs for hunting.  None use 5.56 ammo, they either reload or buy .223.  Most use the Ultra Max, with 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, or the Black Hills ammo with the 40gr V-Max bullet.  The serious ones reload, using 60 to 80 gr bullets.  I use 60s with my TCR and Contender 

In my Mini-14s I seldom shoot 5.56 beyond 60 to 80 yards.  My targets are running and placing your shot is really hard.  I just want to put as many holes in them as I can.  The more holes the blood they leak, the easier the blood trail is to follow in the snow.   
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Offline ironglow

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2012, 01:36:12 AM »
I'm with Mechanic & Sourdough on this one.  Don't rebore..it can't do any good if you reload or buy commercial .223.
 
  I'd recommend reloading..buy new brass or some ammo like this and reload it after use:
  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1339173831/black-hills-remanufactured-ammunition-223-remington-55-grain-soft-point
 
  If you still don't want to reload, Midway has Wolf steel cased 62 gr HP @ $5.29 for 20.
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Offline bkraft

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2012, 01:58:02 PM »
Thanks for the info, was just wonderin.
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2012, 02:51:49 PM »
If you were interested in "reaming" your .223 chamber to safely and accurately shoot 5.56 ammo look into a finish reamer for the .223 Wylde chamber. Do a goggle search on it and you will see why. It should be as easy to do as the .357 Mag to .357 Max rechamber. It might even be nice if that reamer were added to the "rent-a-reamer" program that is in existence for the the .357 Mag and .44 Mag Handi we have here...
 
That's my story and I'm sticking to it....<><....:)
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: 5.56 in a 223
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 04:28:15 AM »
Quote from: bkraft on May 08, 2012, 03:44:39 PM
Could you ream a standard .223 chamber to handle the 5.56 stuff? Just askin...
Mechanic, SD, and IG are correct.  It's not worth the time, trouble, or money.  You can use that extra money you were going to blow on the reamer or rental, and use it to buy more 223Ram ammo.
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