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Offline AtlLaw

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30-30 Number 2
« on: October 31, 2011, 05:50:26 AM »
Y'all remember I got another 30-30 barrel that mated up perfectly with my last spare action (both Remington).  Last week I stuck one of my extra stocks and my old Weaver 2.5 on it, bore sighted it and took it with me to the farm this weekend. 
 
A few shots at 50 yards and I'm sighted in and ready to go!   ;D  I used 125 gr. Remington bullets and TAC powder, a 30-30 load I really wanted to try this year.  Sighting in is sure easy when you mount the scope properly.   ::)
 
30-30 Number 1 may just have to grow up to be a 30-40!  ;)
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Offline petemi

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 09:31:54 AM »
I'd like to find a Topper .30-30 and turn the one I have into a .30-40.  Do it Richard :D

Pete
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 11:49:25 AM »
Congrats Richard, go for it as long as it's a modern barrel!  ;)

Quote from: petemi on October 31, 2011, 09:31:54 AM
I'd like to find a Topper .30-30 and turn the one I have into a .30-40.  Do it Richard :D

Pete

I'd reconsider that Pete, I calculated the breech thrust of the 30-30 and 30-40, the larger case head of the 30-40 and higher pressure doesn't look like a good combination for the soldered/brazed underlug of the Topper barrel, 5874lbs for the 30-30 compared to 7053lbs for the 30-40, I considered making mine a 30-40AI which should reduce breech force some, but decided I'd be leaving my 30-30 Topper barrel as is and enjoy it without the risk.  ;)

Tim
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Offline petemi

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 01:32:43 PM »
Tim,

I wouldn't turn a Topper into a .30-40....you taught me better than that ;)

Quote from: quickdtoo on October 31, 2011, 11:49:25 AM
turn THE ONE I HAVEinto a .30-40.  Do it Richard :D

Pete



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Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

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Offline gstewart44

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 01:52:43 PM »
OK boys, I'm with you on this thinking   ;) .....I have both a Topper and a standard barrel in 3030.   The Topper definitely balances and carries better.    The standard contour barrel is what I have been contemplating for ummm,   ???  Evolution.....     the 30-40 is what came to mind first but then I gots to thinkin...( and we know how dangerous that can be)  I have always had a hankerin for a 303 Brit in a Handi.... reaming the chamber is easy enough but that darn English bore/groove diameter is problematic >:( !    Then the light bulb goes on - why not have the chamber fit the 303B ca'tridge and leave the bore/groove as is for the great American 308 family of boolits?    Sortof a 308 British????? ;D ;D ;D     I already gots the reload stuff for 303B.     Just a thought....
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 03:10:10 PM »
Ya know Gregg, I had that same thought my own darn self!   :o  I've long been a fan of the 303, since my Daddy bought me that Savage No.4 Mk1*.   :D  Killed my first rifle kill deer with it! 
 
But I didn't get past the reloading die thing.  I believe you would have to have a set of .308/303 dies made up.   :-\  Let me check the saami specs...
 
I HATE it when this happens!   ::)
 
.303 Neck ID = .311, OD = .338
.308 Neck ID = .308, OD = .3435
 
Now Gregg, does that get you thinkin!?  Lessee here, the 308 chamber neck is larger then the 303 chamber neck but the 303 bullet is a larger diameter then the 308 bullet but if the brass has the same neck thickness then the cartridge won't chamber ala 38-55.  But if the 303 brass is thinner at the neck then the neck of the cartridge will float in the chamber...   Wait, is that right?  :-\   the 308 bullet is .003 smaller then the 303 bullet but the 308 chamber is .0065 larger then the 303 chamber which means that the... that the...  ???    :-[  The heck with it!   >:(  30-40 here I come!   ;D ;)
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Offline handirandy

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 03:12:15 PM »
Me thinks from posts on the surplus rifle forum all you have to do is replace the expander ball on your reloading dies with a .308.  That is, of course, if you plan on reloading.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 04:18:28 PM »
The 303 B has been made into about everything you can imagine that would work. IIRC, I have read that long ago reamers were made to utilize that 303 case body but chamber the neck properly for out .308 basic dia of .30cal bullets; something like a 30/303.
ASK 4-D !
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Offline carbineman

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 02:13:25 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on October 31, 2011, 11:49:25 AM
Congrats Richard, go for it as long as it's a modern barrel!  ;)

Quote from: petemi on October 31, 2011, 09:31:54 AM
I'd like to find a Topper .30-30 and turn the one I have into a .30-40.  Do it Richard :D

Pete

I'd reconsider that Pete, I calculated the breech thrust of the 30-30 and 30-40, the larger case head of the 30-40 and higher pressure doesn't look like a good combination for the soldered/brazed underlug of the Topper barrel, 5874lbs for the 30-30 compared to 7053lbs for the 30-40, I considered making mine a 30-40AI which should reduce breech force some, but decided I'd be leaving my 30-30 Topper barrel as is and enjoy it without the risk.  ;)

Tim

Tim, how do those breech thrust figures compare to the pistol caliber cartridges and various 12 and 20 ga. shotgun shells? If it is not too big of a bother for you. Thanks......carbineman
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 03:06:48 AM »
Quote from: carbineman on November 01, 2011, 02:13:25 AM
Tim, how do those breech thrust figures compare to the pistol caliber cartridges and various 12 and 20 ga. shotgun shells? If it is not too big of a bother for you. Thanks......carbineman

Shotgun pressures are very low in comparison, 11.5kpsi for the 12ga and 12kpsi for the 20ga, you can use this hydraulic cylinder pressure calculator to determine the breech force or "push" which is the same formula, ignore the rod diameter value, you just need to know the diameter of the case head(not rim) and the pressure in PSI for the cartridge to get a ball park estimate of breech force, actual breech force(bolt thrust) is determined by the inside area of the case head and pressure.

Tim

http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 12:49:46 PM »
Quote from: AtlLaw on October 31, 2011, 03:10:10 PM
Ya know Gregg, I had that same thought my own darn self!   :o  I've long been a fan of the 303, since my Daddy bought me that Savage No.4 Mk1*.   :D  Killed my first rifle kill deer with it! 
 
But I didn't get past the reloading die thing.  I believe you would have to have a set of .308/303 dies made up.   :-\  Let me check the saami specs...
 
I HATE it when this happens!   ::)
 
.303 Neck ID = .311, OD = .338
.308 Neck ID = .308, OD = .3435
 
Now Gregg, does that get you thinkin!?  Lessee here, the 308 chamber neck is larger then the 303 chamber neck but the 303 bullet is a larger diameter then the 308 bullet but if the brass has the same neck thickness then the cartridge won't chamber ala 38-55.  But if the 303 brass is thinner at the neck then the neck of the cartridge will float in the chamber...   Wait, is that right?  :-\   the 308 bullet is .003 smaller then the 303 bullet but the 308 chamber is .0065 larger then the 303 chamber which means that the... that the...  ???    :-[  The heck with it!   >:(  30-40 here I come!   ;)
Richard - youre makin me dizzy! ???
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2011, 01:00:14 PM »
If you could get a reamer like I mention above you may be able to resize cases with the std .303B die without the decap pin/expanderball and then neck size with a Lee Collet Neck Die (if they make one, or modify one to work. The .308 die can work for a number of longer cases with the proper base spacer). I modified a 30-06 Lee for 30-40K and it is sweet to use.
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      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline carbineman

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2011, 02:33:57 PM »
Thanks for the info Tim!
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2011, 02:53:11 PM »
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Offline 44 Man

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2011, 04:27:03 AM »
Richard!  You have the barrel and you haven't done it yet?  I always thought you were more impulsive than that.  :) 
Why not make it a 30-40 Ackley?  Don't need that long neck on the 30-40 anyway.  It sure would make a fine looking cartridge.  And you know that look'n good is 'portant also to us less beautified look'n people!  44 Man
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 05:55:28 AM »
Quote from: 44 Man on November 03, 2011, 04:27:03 AM
Why not make it a 30-40 Ackley?

I thought about that Lewis, then started comparing case capacities.  I figured I could just get a 30-06 and be done with it if all I wanted was more case capacity then the standard 30-40.
 
Then I remembered it wasn't performance I was interested in but nostalgia and uniqueness!  So I'll be very happy with the 30-40 thank you very much!   ;D ... or maybe the 30-40 Ackley...  :-\
 
Quote
And you know that look'n good is 'portant also to us less beautified look'n people!

No.  No I wouldn't know...  8)
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 30-30 Number 2
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 08:25:44 AM »
Richard,
 
Considering your employer, I think you got to stick with the 30 Gubermint Goobermint (sorry forgot for a moment what part of the US of A you be from). ;)
 
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