350 REM MAG or 35 WHELEN?

[Swampman]

You don't headspace on the belt.  The .350 Rem. Mag. has a nice shoulder.

[BBF]

You don't headspace on the belt.  The .350 Rem. Mag. has a nice shoulder.

 WHAT !!  So the belt is used for decoration
Cartridges similar to the 300 H&H are the reason why we have belted cases.

[Dixie Dude]

It all goes back to the H&R.  MOST problems with the 35 Whelen was or is with the H&R rifle.  A Claw Extractor on an older Mauser type action hardly ever had problems.  Remington and Ruger made a lot of 35 Whelens with no problems, also a lot of old Mausers and Springfields were converted with no problems.  Even a 3006 could have problems.  H&R's work best with rimmed cartridges period.  They extract-eject better also. 

[Swampman]

It's not just H&R, it's the cartridge and there were lots of problems.

[nomosendero]

Actually a handloader,if he does not pay attention can create all kinds of problems with a belted magnun. He also has a false sense of security with that belt.

Please explain the false sense of security. 

[nomosendero]

It's not just H&R, it's the cartridge and there were lots of problems.

Please supply article/articles where the 35 Whelen gave these problems in a good bolt action rifle.

[mauser98us]

Actually a handloader,if he does not pay attention can create all kinds of problems with a belted magnun. He also has a false sense of security with that belt.

Please explain the false sense of security. 

Some folks think the case is overstrong cause of the belt. They full length size instead of just where the action closes nicely on the case. Then they load to the gills and wonder why the case separates after three to four loadings.

[nomosendero]

Actually a handloader,if he does not pay attention can create all kinds of problems with a belted magnun. He also has a false sense of security with that belt.

Please explain the false sense of security. 

Some folks think the case is overstrong cause of the belt. They full length size instead of just where the action closes nicely on the case. Then they load to the gills and wonder why the case separates after three to four loadings.

I have to remind myself that Obama got elected.

It is hard to fix stupid, some may believe that the belt is there for strength instead of headspacing  as was intended back in the 300 H&H days, I have never met such a person. It makes no sense that the case would need reinforcing at that exact spot! 

Loading a belted mag like the 300WM is not rocket science to headspace on the shoulder & the info is out there for anyone who has the sense to reload anyway.

[Drilling Man]

Actually a handloader,if he does not pay attention can create all kinds of problems with a belted magnun. He also has a false sense of security with that belt.

Please explain the false sense of security. 

Some folks think the case is overstrong cause of the belt. They full length size instead of just where the action closes nicely on the case. Then they load to the gills and wonder why the case separates after three to four loadings.

I have to remind myself that Obama got elected.

It is hard to fix stupid, some may believe that the belt is there for strength instead of headspacing  as was intended back in the 300 H&H days, I have never met such a person. It makes no sense that the case would need reinforcing at that exact spot! 

Loading a belted mag like the 300WM is not rocket science to headspace on the shoulder & the info is out there for anyone who has the sense to reload anyway.

  +1

  DM

[Sourdough]

Swampy:  As I said earlier I have two ot each, 350 Rem Mag and 35 Whelen.  All four guns work well and do not fail to fire. 

Now I will admit the Remington 600 in .350 is limited to 200gr bullets due to the short magazine.  But the Ruger handles 225gr Nosler partitions well.  Don't need anything heavier.

[BBF]

Now I will admit the Remington 600 in .350 is limited to 200gr bullets due to the short magazine. ..............

How about the 250 gr. RN's from Hornady, will they fit?

[Barstooler]

It's not just H&R, it's the cartridge and there were lots of problems.

Please supply article/articles where the 35 Whelen gave these problems in a good bolt action rifle.

We are still waiting Swampman.

Barstooler

[lgm270]

I have quite a bit of experience with the Whelen, and recommend it for all the reasons listed by other posters who have responded.  You can always cut the barrel down 2 inches if desired, as neither round are really maximum velocity long range numbers.  Big bullets at moderate velocities is the name of the game.

While I have never owned a .350 mag., I have heard several issues from those that do.  When used in a short action rifle, bullets have to be seated deeply, infringing on powder space.  Since ultra light weight is not an issue, It would seem a long action rifle chambered for the 350 would be the way to go, allowing you to seat long bullets ( Barnes X comes to mind) out some, freeing up powder space.

Larry

Many years ago   a guy made up a .350 Rem Mag "long throat" on a standard 30-06 length  M-98 commercial action with a 20" barrel.  This longer magazine and throat  allowed him to seat the bullet's base flush with the case neck  for a longer OAL. He was getting 2,600 fps  with 250 bullets in  his 20" barrel.   This was written up in Rifle or Handloader. I forget which.  But, it  produced great ballistic as you can see.  The .358 Norma Mag and .338 Win Mag typically get only 2,650-2700 with that weight, depending on barrel length. 

This was before Barnes X bullets, but a long throated 225 Grain TSX would be great.  

[BBF]

Another 35 cal bullet that would fit the short action 350 Rem mags is the Speer 220 gr bullet.

[Barstooler]

It's not just H&R, it's the cartridge and there were lots of problems.

Please supply article/articles where the 35 Whelen gave these problems in a good bolt action rifle.

We are still waiting Swampman.

Barstooler

Still Waiting Swampman

[lgm270]

It's not just H&R, it's the cartridge and there were lots of problems.

Please supply article/articles where the 35 Whelen gave these problems in a good bolt action rifle.

We are still waiting Swampman.

Barstooler

Still Waiting Swampman

I have read that the head space problems with the .35 Whelen arose from chamber variations arising from different reamers and uneven gunsmithing.  Guns & Ammo had a story about a guy who bought a pre-64 M-70 marked as a ".35 Whelen" but it had a weird chamber.  AFter head separations he had to do a chamber cast and have special dies. All worked well after that. 

I read a piece in "Rifle" by a guy who re=barreled a .400 Brown Whelen Ruger M-77.  Said it headspaced fine.  I guess the issue is that the chamber matches the reloading dies. 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Swampman's post border on the rediculous.  Yah the .35 Whelen is problem riddled that's why it faded from existance shortly after it came out in the 1920's!  That's why the .35 Whelen is almost never seen today.

I suspect Swampman is just trying to stir the pot and get a rise from Whelen fans.  However, he may be doing damage to prospective Whelen buyers who will read his malarky and steer clear of the Whelen.  His posts ought to be deleted if he can't back them up with some cited articles.

Any manufacturer who can't ream a chamber to headspace on the Whelen's shoulder is flat out incompetent. 

[Dixie Dude]

It was probably the Remingtons the 35 Whelen was chambered in.  The old 600 and 660 Remingtons had problems firing when the safety was disengaged.  I have never liked the Remington safetys.  I like the old Classic model 70's, Mausers, and Rugers 3 position safetys.  Never understood with the problems Remington had why they didn't correct the problem.  They currently have two class action lawsuits over the 700's poor safety design. 

[lgm270]

It was probably the Remingtons the 35 Whelen was chambered in.  The old 600 and 660 Remingtons had problems firing when the safety was disengaged.  I have never liked the Remington safetys.  I like the old Classic model 70's, Mausers, and Rugers 3 position safetys.  Never understood with the problems Remington had why they didn't correct the problem.  They currently have two class action lawsuits over the 700's poor safety design. 

A friend had an old Remington bolt action .22 LR  that would  sometimes fire when the safety was released.  Scared the crap out of us.  He tinkered with it and figured out that if you loaded the chamber, put on the safety and pulled the trigger, the trigger would sometimes "Stick" so that when the safety was released the firing pin would go forward. 

Bottom line:  It's really important to keep in mind where your muzzle is pointed.

[Lloyd Smale]

the only factory gun the 35 whelen was ever chambered in by remington was the 700 classic and the 700 cdl. That been said ive never owned one but have a buddy who is a whelen nut and i know for a fact hes not had one lick of problem with headspace using it.

It was probably the Remingtons the 35 Whelen was chambered in.  The old 600 and 660 Remingtons had problems firing when the safety was disengaged.  I have never liked the Remington safetys.  I like the old Classic model 70's, Mausers, and Rugers 3 position safetys.  Never understood with the problems Remington had why they didn't correct the problem.  They currently have two class action lawsuits over the 700's poor safety design. 

[Lloyd Smale]

it is to me. I allways headspace mags on the sholder and never the belt. Your lucky to get 3 firings out of mag brass that is loaded headspacing on the belt.

You don't headspace on the belt.  The .350 Rem. Mag. has a nice shoulder.

 WHAT !!  So the belt is used for decoration
Cartridges similar to the 300 H&H are the reason why we have belted cases.

[Lloyd Smale]

im allready tired of all the remington safety bashers. Ive used remington rifles with there safety for 40 years and have never had one lick of trouble with them. I own more remington 700s then all the rest of my rifles combined. Anyone who is stupid enough to point a gun at someone when there unloading it deserves to go to jail! If your really worried about one just open the floor plate and dump the rounds. I allways thought that 3 position safetys were about as needed as key locks on smith and wesson revolvers.

It was probably the Remingtons the 35 Whelen was chambered in.  The old 600 and 660 Remingtons had problems firing when the safety was disengaged.  I have never liked the Remington safetys.  I like the old Classic model 70's, Mausers, and Rugers 3 position safetys.  Never understood with the problems Remington had why they didn't correct the problem.  They currently have two class action lawsuits over the 700's poor safety design. 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Yah, I remember way back in Hunter's Safety the instructor did not care for safeties at all.  He said they should NEVER be relied on period.  If the gun goes off it should either hit the target or drive harmlessly into dirt or tree trunks.

In fact the safety never factors in to the rules of gun safety as I was taught:

1 Treat every gun as if it was loaded
2 Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction
3 Know your target and beyond
4 Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Note there is no mention of the use of a safety.

In fact, it scares the hell out of me when I hear some person claim they bought an in-line muzzle loader because they are "safer". 

[Dixie Dude]

A friend of mine has a brother that was in sniper training at Ft. Benning, Ga.  He said the Remingtons would sometimes fire when you thumbed the safety off, without touching the trigger.  Military realises it is a problem with Remingtons.  I had one that would release the bolt when I cycled the action.  I would pull the bolt out of the gun.  Bolt release button would stick sometimes.  Even with a good cleaning. 

[lgm270]

A friend of mine has a brother that was in sniper training at Ft. Benning, Ga.  He said the Remingtons would sometimes fire when you thumbed the safety off, without touching the trigger.  Military realises it is a problem with Remingtons.  I had one that would release the bolt when I cycled the action.  I would pull the bolt out of the gun.  Bolt release button would stick sometimes.  Even with a good cleaning. 

Whoa!  Imagine being in a concealed position getting ready to line up on a "target of opportunity" and you flip off the safety and the thing goes off?  A bad scene.

[BBF]

I had an old Lee Enfield that scared the crap out of a couple of Boy Scouts that messed with that rifle.Put a round in the chamber and applied the safety......no problem
Pull the trigger.............. all quiet on the Western Front
Flip off the safety not touching the trigger........KABOOOM !!

A 180 gr SP will penetrate the frame of a military style bunk.

[Lloyd Smale]

only time ive seen it happen is when i got carried away with the trigger ajustments. Ive seen the same thing just recently on my weatherby vanguard for the same reason. I have NEVER heard of a remington going off that wasnt tampered with.

[Mckie Hollow]

I've had good accuracy @ 100yds. by fileing the exposed lead tip off a 250 gr. speer hot core, to fit My model 7 350 mag.. But I wouldn't use this bullet on things that might bite back. I think that I read in an article once, that The Writer tried this fileing with good success.

[Swampman]

It was probably the Remingtons the 35 Whelen was chambered in.

No, it's just a bad cartridge design that does nothin the .30-06 won't do with aplomb.

[Barstooler]

It was probably the Remingtons the 35 Whelen was chambered in.

No, it's just a bad cartridge design that does nothin the .30-06 won't do with aplomb.

Using similar logic:::::

Just like the Remington 700 is a bad rifle design that does nothin the Ruger 77 won't do with aplomb.

AND:

The engineers at Remington -- who according to you -- make the best out of the box rifle in the world, were apparently too stupid to identify a "bad cartridge design" and commercialized the Whelen anyway.

Either way your logic does not cut it.
Barstooler