Bullets for Black Bear

[nomosendero]

OK for you & others have found better & more accurate choices for their rifles. Yes, there are alot of lethal choices. 

[Swampman]

I don't think there are many lethal choices.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know about that. I just shot a doe at over 400 yards with a 165bt out of a 300 mag and it dropped it in its tracks. I dont know what you consider good performance in a bullet but to me its a bullet that when hits an animal it kills it right now with no suffering for the animal or suffering for me with my bad back tracking them. Ive shot probably 50 deer with ballistic tips and have yet to loose one. Might loose two or three pounds of hamburger meat as thats all I use front shoulders for anyway and thats just not a consern to me. Bottom line is even corelocks pushed at high velocitys tend to break up bad. Deer arent hard to kill and sure dont require a premium bullet and in most cases a premium bullet wont kill as quickly. My favorits have allways been cup and core bullets like the sierras the ballistic tips, corelocks, power points and speer hot cores. Ive seen very little differnce in performance on game between any of them. Hit a bone and your going to do meat damage. Put it behind the shoulder like your suppose to and you have a quickly killed deer. Most people dont have the opertunity i have to shoot multiple deer with the same bullets. They make there judgement on a single case or maybe two. Bottom line is when you shoot 20 or so deer with all of them you find that there aint much differnce. They all will mess up meat with a poor shot. A ballistic tip behind the shoulder is going to do alot less damage to meat then a barnes will if you hit the shoulder and if you do hit the shoulder with any high velocity rifle bullet you can about write off the meat.

The Nosler BT is accurate enough but they performed so pooerly for me on deer sized game that I gave up on them.

[Lloyd Smale]

As to getting back on subject when picking a bullet for bear hunting accuracy and terminal performance is what this discussion is about. Im sure thats what the poster is looking for in a bullet. Ill stand behind the statement that any cup and core bullet will work well. In the 308 if i was bear hunting and i knew the shots would be close id use a 165 and if i knew for sure a 300 yard shot was possible id load 150s as the 308 isnt the flattest shooting gun made and the 150s would take a bit more of the guess work out of a shot.

[drdougrx]

Having personally killed quite a few....my experience.....there are quite a few bullets that are lethal including Nosler BTs....they are just not that hard to kill....whatever works on deer will work on bear...even Core-Lokts.

Maybe a guy who has invested in a plane ticket, car rental, out of state license, 2-3 years of savings and an outfitter would want a premium as maybe the only shot that poresents is less than ideal....

[Swampman]

I gave up on "premium" bullet.  The exception might be the Nosler Partition on big game.

[mcwoodduck]

I think Premuim bullets are neat.
I think a premium bullet is best used when you are using a caliber that is not normal for the animal or are shooting at longer distances.
For example shooting a 243 at Elk.  Most 243 bullets are designed for thin skinned game or for varmint. I think that using smaller calibers or lighter bullets on larger game the premium bullets are good options as they open more consistantly.
Personally I have gone back to standard bullets for game.  I just caliber up for larger game rather than tying to press my 308 Win into rolls other than deer that it is perfect for.  I also like using heavy for caliber bullets for deer and black bear.  
Your 308 with 180 grain soft points by remington, winchester or federal will all work well on a black bear.
If you want to use a premium bullet not problem.
I use premium shot shells for the reasons Dr. Doug said.  I have limited hunting time and while the shells are 1.5 as much as steel I think it is worth and really cheap part of the hunt when plane tickets are involved, add to that hotel, guide fees, tips, shipping meat, and taxidermy and the shot shells are cheap.  Premium bullets are cheap when compared to your total costs.  Also the cost of two boxes of rifle ammo, half of one to sight in and one to hunt with is not that large of an investment over the standard box of ammo.  After all you are not going to be shooting bears like ground hogs.  One or two will do it for the hunt.  The rest of the box can be used on other hunts.
good luck on your hunt.  Post pictures.

[BBF]

A .243 Win on Elk??   I'd hope whoever does that needs several root canals and gets a hernia

[Swampman]

A .243 Win on Elk??   I'd hope whoever does that needs several root canals and gets a hernia

Me too!

[nomosendero]

I don't think there are many lethal choices.

For you there aren't, but are for others.

[Swampman]

Yep 4 or 5 lung shots and they are still running.  I went back to Core-Lokts for DRT performance every time.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

    Haven't kept track, but Nosler BTBT have taken, axis deer, mulies, whitetails, antelope, black bear, Mt. sheep, caribou, moose, and elk...the moose, and several elk, were dropped in their tracks with lung shots from these bullets...now today, I would go with partitions..but if 4 or 5 were shot and still running...it causes me to wonder where they were hit of if they were hit.....

[mcwoodduck]

A .243 Win on Elk??   I'd hope whoever does that needs several root canals and gets a hernia

Groan.  I am not advocating it, but if you are going to do it this is where the premium bullets like the partition, A frame, or the solid copper designs of barnes.
Maybe I should have said 257 Roberts, 25-06, 6.5X55 Swede, or 270 instead.   

[Swampman]

"lung shots"

[Lloyd Smale]

Im not defending using a 243 on elk. Ive got better guns for the job but Warren Page shot truck loads of elk and moose and even big bear with a 243 6mm and 240 weatherby. Like any other hunting situation bullet placement is the most important factor in a clean kill. I cant go elk hunting every year as im not fortunate enough to live in a state with much hunting opertuntiy for them in my back yard. So if i do go im not fooling around with marginal guns. One of my 300 mags usually gets the nod. But ive shot enough black bear and some of them on the large side with a 6mm rem to know that if i do my part and put the bullet where it belongs that the 243 and 6mm are very good killers on animals up to 400 lbs. Ive shot a few with the 25-06 too and at ranges under 200 yards see very little differnce in the killing power of the two rounds and i can also throw the 270 and 280 in on that comparison. Now when ranges get out past 300 the bigger rounds do seem to hit with more athourity. Would i go hunting elk with a 243. If i lived in montana and could get cow tags or had shot many allready and was just out to put meat on the table. Yes. For a once or twice in a lifetime hunt for a trophy bull. NO.

[nomosendero]

I have a couple of rifles I may use for an upcoming bear hunt out west.  I will be using either my .308, .280, or .338 WM.  So far I am leaning towards the .308 because I am hunting over bait, so shots will be close.  I just picked up a box of 165gr GMX's for load testing out of the .308.  I thought about using 180's, but figured with the monolithic design I could drop a couple of grains and pick up a few fps and still have 100% weight retention.  Another I thought about was the Barnes, but I've been partial to Hornady. 

For each cartridge, what bullets and weights would you use?  I know premium bullets aren't needed, but this is my first bear hunt and I don't want to take any chances.  I figure my ammo is the cheapest part of the trip, so premium is preferred. 



 

Looks like it's time to get back to the original question intead of arguing with someone who can't kill a lung shot Deer, Elk bullets, etc. Please!!!

You say premium bullets aren't needed & also say the bullets are the cheapest part of the hunt. You are correct on both counts. Yes, a Speer Deep Curl, Fushion, Core lokt, Interlock, GK,Win. Power Pt., there's a  bunch of choices. You are right since you are hunting over bait & the shots are close that the 308 would be all that's needed, so I am basing comments on that. I use a 308 some too & even though a 150 would work, if I used a cup and core bullet like the various ones I mentioned, I would prefer a 165 gr & over for close range Bears. For GMX, TSX or E-Tip, I would not care if it were a 150. If you like the 165 GMX, why not use it?

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   Llyod

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   Lloyd, not to argue, but are you certain about the 6mm and Page shooting moose and big bear with it...I had a couple books by Page...he did shoot some red deer in NZ with his 240 Page, and certainly lots of deer...his biggest whitetail was taken with it...but he was well known for his love of the 7mm Mashburn Mag..he used it extensively I felt more than anything else...He also used a 35 Mashburn for several big bear hunts...I am certain he liked the .240 for deer size game, but that Mashburn 7 was from all I read his favorite..Old Betsy.....

[Lloyd Smale]

I have no way of proving it but i distinctly remember reading an article he wrote for guns and ammo or shooting times back in the 70s that was specificaly about shooting elk and larger game with .243 bullets. I had a real good friend back then that was a 24 cal nut. He about worshiped warren page.

[mcwoodduck]

I have no way of proving it but i distinctly remember reading an article he wrote for guns and ammo or shooting times back in the 70s that was specificaly about shooting elk and larger game with .243 bullets. I had a real good friend back then that was a 24 cal nut. He about worshiped warren page.

I thought Warren page was big on the 7mm.  like 280. or hot loading 7X57 in a modern action.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  I am certain Page loved the big 7's...the wildcat Mashburn was a long time favorite...and he did like the 24's....He was the  reason Bob Hagel went with the 7 MM Mashburn in the late 50's.....I am also certain he shot much game with the 24 but never read of a moose hunt with it..red deer yes, but not moose..I read quite a bit of Page for a while, but sort of liked others better...

[billy_56081]

I'll never forget how old John Rose, long time guide andd outfitter in the Selway, said he sure killed alot of elk, deer and bear with his 222 remington magnum before anyone told him it was to small. Put a decently constructed bullet in the right place and you will have your game. I loved how all these "dudes" would talk about how perfectly they hit thier animal, "lung shot" "heart shot" ect. ect. And most often the ones we did recover after hours of tracking were either shot in the guts or ass. Perfect shot omg these "dudes" cracked me up.

Old Ron White was right, you can't fix stupid!

[Mr. Joe]

I have a good deal of experience in this topic.  Here in Mi. we have a ton of bears.   Weights are typical with a trophy in the 400lb class.  We typically hunt over bait and shots are always within 300 yards with most inside of 150. In Michigan our most common tool is without doubt the lever action 30-30.  The .308 is as close to perfect as you cant get. I laugh when people take cannons out after these critters.  In our camps we all use rifles of the 270-.308-.30-06 class.  We have  never lost one.  We have never had a need for premium bullets as most are using factory Remington or Winchester ammo.  My .308's pet load is a 165gr core lokt over 46 grains of varget.  With this load i get one hole results and great velocity.  Works great on bears too!  In the .30-06 and .308 the 165gr. bullets give good penetration and good velocity.  They also seem to hold together very well on tougher game.  Best of luck and post pictures!

[1911crazy]

I use the 225gr winchester super x ammo in my remington 700 in 338win mag.  It can take out the "X" out of the bullseye at 100yds with two shots thru the same hole if i do my part.  This was on the very first day of sighting it in, it was brand new.  It didn't shoot tight groups with remington ammo but as soon as i switched to the winchester it became a tac driver.  I never touched the rifle this was out of the box brand new.

[mannyrock]

  OK Guys, I'm gonna do something I rarely do.  I'm gonna "pile on" with the responses in the prior posts, and agree with Swampy.  :-)

  The Remington Corelokt, 180 grain bullet, in .30 caliber, will efficiently kill any black bear that walks this planet, whether launched from a .308 or a .30-06 or a .300 Savage.  I have no experience with a .270, so I will stay out of that arena.

   At least in the realm of the .30 calibers, I believe that any person who nit-picks or obsesses about using premium custom bullets on a black bear may be more interested in fooling with his gun than in baggin a black bear.

    Here in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, and in Upper State New York, huge numbers of black bear are killed every year, and the .30-30 (with 170 grain Core-Lokt) and the .35 Remington (with factory loaded Core-Lokts) are also  extremely popular.


Regards,  Mannyrock

[1911crazy]

I been reloading and using the speer magnum mag-tip's for eons in my 30-06 its the 180grs.  They ballastically were proven in my wet sand tests before we went hunting with them.  My brother shot a blackbear and dro0pped it on the spot with my reloads.  So its been field tested now too.  Speer offers it in 7mm(284") its 175gr.  but in 30cal its 150 and 180gr.

BTW;  My 30-06 doesn't like over the counter ammo its not accurate at all so i had to reload for it.

[Lloyd Smale]

I too live in MI and have hunted bears all my life. A 400lb bear is a rare one and typicaly the bears ive shot run between 150 and 200lbs. I also agree with the previous poster who stated there no harder to kill then a deer. In most cases when hit hard they will not run as far as a hard hit whitetail. When you get into a 400lb class bear theres definately more fat and bone to pentrate and it rules out guns like 223s but even the lowly old 3030 will still dump any 400lb bear with a well placed shot out to a 150 yards. Alot of my buddys dog hunt for them and most feel adequately armed with a 357 handgun or a lever gun in 357 or 44 mag or 3030.

I have a good deal of experience in this topic.  Here in Mi. we have a ton of bears.   Weights are typical with a trophy in the 400lb class.  We typically hunt over bait and shots are always within 300 yards with most inside of 150. In Michigan our most common tool is without doubt the lever action 30-30.  The .308 is as close to perfect as you cant get. I laugh when people take cannons out after these critters.  In our camps we all use rifles of the 270-.308-.30-06 class.  We have  never lost one.  We have never had a need for premium bullets as most are using factory Remington or Winchester ammo.  My .308's pet load is a 165gr core lokt over 46 grains of varget.  With this load i get one hole results and great velocity.  Works great on bears too!  In the .30-06 and .308 the 165gr. bullets give good penetration and good velocity.  They also seem to hold together very well on tougher game.  Best of luck and post pictures!

[jro45]

I used my 300 ultra mag and shot him right in the heart . It really doesn't matter what you use so lone as you make a heart shot over bait. For a long shot I wood use the 338 rum.

[Swampman]

The Remington Core-Lokt is a great bullet for black bear and frequently the most accurate in any rifle.

[mcwoodduck]

The Remington Core-Lokt is a great bullet for black bear and frequently the most accurate in any rifle.

I agree the Core Lokt is a great bullet.
Not so sure about the most accurate,
But I do agree with the slogan "Deadliest Mushroom In The Woods"
I like how they expand.
I really like the Round nose Soft points for Big game under 100 Yards.
I have recovered a few from deer and they open right up and more than double in caliber out of my 308.  I like the SP 180 grain bullets.
But too I have recovered Federal Hy Shok and Win PP and they too are similar about 2X in size.  I think the big soft round nose that exposed in the Rem makes them open up more expending more energy into the animal and makes larger wound canals.
Other than that a pointed bullet is a pointed bullet and will work the same way.
If you put a hole where you are supose to most, factory loadings will do what is needed and open up.