Author Topic: What Handi to use for cougar?  (Read 2750 times)

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Offline petemi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2010, 02:54:14 PM »
Kurt, I'd be real happy if he just left town.  It'd save me a lot of grief.  I'm going now to close up the horses and chickens for the night, and the .445 is going for the ride.  It's wearing a red dot which is great for this time of the evening.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2010, 03:46:41 PM »
Pete, if you take out the cougar do not worry there will be a defense fund set up here for your sake, after all you do have a history of Handi addiction, plus the right to protect your property
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
  it's where you hit em "

Offline petemi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2010, 04:00:29 PM »
Jeep, as you said "the right to protect your property".  It is a sorry state of affairs when the government can tell you "you can't".  I went to school for wildlife management at University of Maine.  I'm not an ignorant person, but I will protect what's mine.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2010, 04:10:54 PM »
Pete, I believe with all my heart and mind that our Founding Fathers of this Great Nation had that thought foremost in their plan for this nation.I also believe that we the people need to assume this position again to restore this nation to its Glory and Greatness that so many Brave People have sacrificed so much to peserve.
If you have to shoot the Da*n Cougar  plead self defense using the Castle law that Michigan adopted in 2006 giving you the right to protect you and your property. check out :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
"it ain't what you shoot em with......................
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2010, 04:20:37 PM »
Pete,

You four-legged problem is just like a lot of the 2 legged problems in this country.  They don't pay taxes, but the folks running our government go out of their way to protect them from the folks who do pay taxes.  Good luck with your cat problem, maybe the cat has heard you ringing that gong at 300 yards an decided to move on. ;)

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Offline Spanky

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2010, 04:22:01 PM »
Like I said Pete... you know what you have to do. ;) He's too close for comfort.



Spanky

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2010, 04:38:49 PM »
Here in NH our fish and game department is still denying their existence despite the fact that people see them quite frequently. A couple years ago a horse was killed by one and fish and game tried to blame the horse's death on a black bear  ::)

If I do ever see one then kill it and fish and game tries to fine me I'll ask them "How can you fine me for killing something that doesn't exist in NH?"
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Offline blind ear

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2010, 05:35:23 PM »
someone with the right attitude needs to take up preadator "calling". eddiegjr
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Offline schoolmaster

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2010, 06:07:48 PM »
You left out the most important tool...a shovel.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2010, 06:08:50 PM »
Small Calf and Sheep Bleats should work for calls.  They can be downloaded off the net onto an I-Pod or MP-3 and played then replayed over a small set of amplified speakers like most kids have in their bedrooms to get more voulme out of the I-Pods.  I've downloadsed those sounds on to a DC then played them over my sterio in the living room.  I set the speaker in the window.  Called a Black Bear in that had been harrassing the neighborhood.  Shoot him right nest to the deck, four feet from the speaker.

If it should come up to the barn, shoot it with a large enough load to put it down on the spot.  If shot right there next to the barn, it's a defense of life and property issue.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2010, 06:40:24 PM »
Pete,
  I'm with Kurt on this one. 12ga pump or auto with the Dixie Triballs and/or Terminators. Great pattern even at 40yds. Those 115gr balls are real hard on game...... too bad for them. ;) That's what i would use on game that can eat me. :o

http://www.dixieslugs.com/ballistics.html

Thanks, Dinny

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Offline Sourdough

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2010, 07:22:24 PM »
I bought a bunch of slugs several years ago from Natches Shooters Supply.  They nwere made by a company I believe named "Ballistic Industries"  The slug was called the "Dangerous Game Slug".  It came with the loading data, and it was simple to just load like normal only substatute the slug for the load of shot.  Used Winchester AA shells, Winchester Primers, Winchester AA wads, and I believe I used Green Dot Powder.  Shooting them through my S&W pump with 20" smooth bore barrel with rifled sites, I had a 3" group at 100 yards.  Made me happy.

They would be good medacine for anchoring something like a Couger, or Black Bear.  
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline GreenMachine79

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2010, 07:27:49 PM »
You left out the most important tool...a shovel.

What he said

Offline Ten Ring

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2010, 07:54:16 PM »
On game to put on the table I abide with the laws and regulations, on predator's where my livestock and family are involved I will pull the trigger and keep my mouth shut. Go git him Pete.
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Offline petemi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2010, 01:41:23 AM »
I don't keep beef cattle any more....got to be too much work for what I got out of it.  I do have 2 horses, 2 dogs, one cat and 4 chickens, a rooster and 3 hens.  This may sound silly to many, but all, including the chickens are pets and friends.  The chickens all have names and come when I call them.  They're comical to watch.  Yeah, they're a pain in the butt sometimes digging holes in the lawn, but they keep the bugs down and give us wonderful brown and green eggs.  I guess what I'm trying to say is these critters are an extention of my family and I will kill anything to protect them.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline Darreld Walton

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2010, 02:42:32 AM »
If the cat goes to the big litter box in the sky, never mention it. 
With the "re-introduction" of Canadian Grey Wolves in these parts (wolves never were entirely gone from Idaho, Wyoming, or Montana, and the Canadian wolves are not and never were native to this region), quite a few "really well fed coyotes" have expired.
As to legal hunting, at least around here, the hound hunters kill them regularly with .22 Magnum rimfire revolvers after they're treed.  Would leave me a bit skittish, but I'd not go pelt hunting for one of these, either. Anything that will kill a whitetail will kill one of these creatures dead as a stone.
An 84 year old woman about 50 miles from my home, shot one off her front porch with a .243 after she heard her Ankle Biter, FruFru yelp once, and spotted the cat in the yard with said hairball in the jaws of the cat.
A reliable semi-auto handgun, and I'd personally prefer something at least on the order of a .40 S&W, or larger, would work well, but my preference is to revolvers, and a .357 will do the job nicely, a .41 better, and a .44 mag or .45 Colt may be 'overkill', if the term really applies to 'people shredders'.  Anything that you can't put your hands on instantly is useless. 
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Offline PawPaw

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2010, 04:27:53 AM »
These things have been moving back into our area (central Louisiana) for the past decade.  I've seen them in southern Natchitoches Parish.  They're living in a large wilderness area in the national forest and venturing out into the farmland.  Some folks say they're black, but the two I've seen are more like a rich, chocolate brown.  I can understand the color confusion, especially if seen during twilight.

More recently, we've had reports of a cougar in eastern Rapides Parish, again near a large wildlife area.  My Momma lives withing rock-throwing distance of the wildlife area and neighbors report a big cat traveling though the area.  Of course, the Wildlife guys deny any official sighting.

In another 8 weeks, I'll be putting out the trail cams in preparation for deer season and it'll be interesting to see what turns up.

Offline RussB

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2010, 04:45:00 AM »
Here in Washington State, Cougar / Mountain Lion are fairly common.
I have seen a couple, while out in the woods hunting but I have only gotten off one shot with a Handi 45-70, which was a miss....it would not have been any different had I used a repeater, it was a very quick shot, a very near miss, and that cat was simply gone.
 
Over the years, when snow was on the ground, I have seen where they have come right up in the yard and even walked around the house...one even came up on the back deck and walked around.
On one occasion I found a dead Deer near the wood pile that had been covered up with pine needles and debris, and I thought that was most likely the work of a Cougar, but the Sheriff said that was probably a bear, although we couldn't find any tracks or any sign other than the Deer with a broken neck.
The Sheriff seemed like a real nice guy and fairly knowledgeable fella, but when you've been constantly seeing big cats around for the past couple of years, there is every reason to believe the dirty work was done by a cat, IMO.

From the description Pete has given, and if I were Pete, I wouldn't get to far from home without a good pump-action shotgun loaded with "double-oughts". It is one thing to take a big cat while hunting with a rifle, even a nice single-shot rifle, but it's a totally different thing when that Cougar has been watching you for some time.
You can always go back and get that shovel, but you just might not be able to get back for enough gun when you need it most.

Just my thoughts.

Russ

Offline Goatwhiskers

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2010, 04:45:58 AM »
Pete, just follow the 3S rule: Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up.  Goatwhiskers the Elder ;)

Offline wreckhog

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2010, 05:30:22 AM »
Dunno if I'd want to be in shotgun range. Probably just send the wife and kids away for the w/e, buy a baby goat to stake out by the 100 yard gong, and line a few Handis up by the window.

My undremployed neighbor was going to take his 4 year olds out to the farm in LP for the summer. Then his mom mentioned the cougar tracks and his business started getting super busy. Guess Michigan is popular with the cats.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2010, 06:12:26 AM »
Just told my wife about your plight, she said," get a Llama'. I guess they are pretty ornery and used to guard sheep in some places. She says look up 'guard llamas' online.
I like the 12ga/OO repeater (re-pete-er?) idea thats is short & handy enough to carry & have closeby. Something like a pump sluggun with a slug for last shot at distance, maybe.
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Offline petemi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2010, 06:58:28 AM »
Patty saw a cougar on her way to Newberry a good ten years ago.  It crossed 100 yards in front of her car at 9 a.m.  DNR said she was mistaken.  How can you possibly mistake a cougar for anything else? ???

gcrank1, a llama might work for coyotes and wolves. but would only be more chow for a bear or cougar.  My neighbors had one for a while "to protect" lambing ewes.  He didn't do squat diddly.  Patty and I shot the 'yotes.  They were dragging the borning lambs right out of the ewes.

We're burrying my 98 year old Mom this weekend, and I'm going off to Nu Joisey and will be back next Wednesday.  The 12 ga. pump will be sitting by the door for Patty while I'm gone.  She's tied up at work and can't get away, so she's taking care of the critters.  Patty's a much better shot than I am, and might just get the sucker.  She's deadly with her .270.  I've seen her take 'chucks at 400 yards with a 90 gr. hollowpoint.  There was a wild rumor here a few years back that someone saw her kill a running deer at 100 yards with her longbow.  Well, she never did that, but being a Ponca, she's deadly with a muzzle loader, bow, knife and tomahawk as well.  She's one formidable woman...and a wonderful person and wife.


Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

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Offline wreckhog

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2010, 07:21:59 AM »
Sorry about your mom.

Get 2 mules?



Guard Donkeys, Mules Protect Against Predators
Goat and Sheep Farmers Use Burros to Watch Their Herds
Jan 16, 2010 Linda Ashar

Donkeys are loyal, economical guardians against herd predators like coyotes, foxes, and bobcats. They also sound a loud alarm for all types of intruders.
   


Donkeys, or burros, possess natural herding instincts combined with an innate aggressive dislike for coyotes and similar predators. Donkeys are capable of killing a dog or coyote. Their braying is a warning that these predators recognize and tend to avoid.

Goat and sheep farmers from Canada to Texas are using donkeys and mules to guard their herds from predators. Many people also use them as nannies with their horse and pony herds, especially weanlings and yearlings.

Why Donkeys and Mules Make Good Herd Guardians
Mules, offspring of a male donkey bred to a horse, also carry the natural animosity and aggressiveness toward such predators and are used as herd guardians, though donkeys are generally preferred.

Donkeys are fast on their feet and have a lightening kick that carries a punch, as do mules. Both animals have strong teeth and jaws carried on strong necks. These physical attributes give them muscle against predators.

They have their limitations in situations involving a pack of several predators that can circle them, as any lone guardian animal will have. Further, a donkey or mule cannot defend so well against large predators such as bears and mountain lions, although there are some documented incidents of mules winning bouts with mountain lions.


The coyote, though, a predator which is becoming increasingly prevalent even in residential areas, has a natural healthy respect for donkeys and will tend to avoid them. Donkeys have been known to kill coyotes.

It is the mutual aversion between donkeys and coyotes and dogs that make donkeys effective babysitters for sheep and goat ranchers. In addition, donkeys are easy keepers, and fit well into the herd environment.

Using Guard Donkeys or Mules to Protect Herds and Farmyards


Standard and mammoth donkeys are the type to use. Miniatures are not big enough to serve guard duty.

Ideally a donkey will be raised with a herd of sheep or goats to become their protector naturally. A female donkey (jenny) is preferable, although gelded males have been used with some success. Ungelded jacks do not work.

Alternatively, one can select an individual young adult female donkey and introduce her to the herd. Once a donkey has bonded with her herd she will become its protector.

Similarly a donkey will be territorial and protective of her farmyard environment and announce intruders, animal and human, with loud braying. A donkey alarm can be heard for quite a distance.

Because individual animals have their idiosyncrasies, it must not be assumed that every donkey or mule will automatically be a good guard animal. In the early stages of herd introduction, the donkey's behavior with the herd must be monitored to be sure of compatibility, bonding and good guardianship.

Guard donkeys work best with sheep or goat herds of 100 or less ranging in a reasonable size range. If the distance is too far flung, meaning that herd individuals will be widely separated, the donkey's ability to be effective will be limited.

Similarly, a large herd puts too much demand on a single guard animal's capability. One guard donkey per pasture or group is recommended for effective protection.

Because donkeys have a natural adversity to dogs, working guard donkeys in proximity with sheep dogs may be dicey. Management of herd duties between the donkey and the herd dogs will be an important dynamic to plan out. On the other hand, donkeys are naturally docile with people, unless given a very good reason not to be.

Many breeders of horses and ponies use donkeys to protect their herds when out at pasture. Jennies are good babysitters for weanlings and yearlings.

Feeding Guard Donkeys with the Herd and General Care


An advantage of guard donkeys and mules is that they are easy keepers. They do well grazing with the herd.

A caution is to be sure that donkeys do not eat rich grain, hay or overly lush grass high in protein. These feeds will make them prone to obesity, founder and other metabolic illnesses such as hyperlipaemia.

Other care requirements of donkeys and mules are fairly minimal. Compared to horses, they are inexpensive animals to keep and manage. They need their feet trimmed from time to time and should have inoculations and general vet care recommended for equines in their geographic region. Their legs are susceptible to bleeding and scabbing from biting flies, which is something to watch over in fly season.

With proper care and management guard donkeys and mules can be expected to serve for 10 to 15 years.


Read more at Suite101: Guard Donkeys, Mules Protect Against Predators: Goat and Sheep Farmers Use Burros to Watch Their Herds http://horses.suite101.com/article.cfm/guard_donkeys_mules_protect_against_predators#ixzz0sv4i8cpy

Offline dukkillr

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2010, 07:36:13 AM »
You are something like 90x more likely to be killed by lightning than a mountain lion.  Bees, dogs, deer, and cows are all much more dangerous statistically.  Shark attack is about even, and you are dramatically more likely to be killed in a plane crash or drown.

I'd worry about something that is more likely to get you...

Offline billy_56081

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2010, 07:43:43 AM »
You are something like 90x more likely to be killed by lightning than a mountain lion.  Bees, dogs, deer, and cows are all much more dangerous statistically.  Shark attack is about even, and you are dramatically more likely to be killed in a plane crash or drown.

I'd worry about something that is more likely to get you...


Dukk, we do agree on some things!
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Offline necchi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2010, 10:03:50 AM »
Exactly, we lost Pop as he walked out to get the mail !  :'(
found elsewhere

Offline petemi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2010, 11:17:09 AM »
dukkill, I, personally have no fear of a cougar.  I just worry about my critters.  Their chances of being killed by a cougar are a lot more serious than getting hit by lightning.  Back around 1987 I was stung in the mouth by a yellow jacket and can tell you all about stings and anaphalactic shock.  My blood pressure was 30 over 0.  If it weren't for the truck radios we had then, I wouldn't be writing this.  I scuba dived up and down the whole Atlantic coast for years and have been with many sharks and barracuda, and they never worried me much either.  I did have a bull shark make a run at me while swimming with a girlfriend years ago, but had enough warning to get out of harms way.  You're right, cows and horses can be very dangerous.  A paper bag can fly in the wind and a horse will jump right on top of you.  I had that happen when Patty and I were riding out back.  We went through an opening in a barbed wire fence, and 30 feet away there was a black plastic bag hanging on the fence, blowing in the wind.  Both horses jumped sideways....seemed like 10 feet.  Somehow, we both stayed in the saddle.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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Offline yooper77

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2010, 11:25:51 AM »
Patty saw a cougar on her way to Newberry a good ten years ago.  It crossed 100 yards in front of her car at 9 a.m.  DNR said she was mistaken.  How can you possibly mistake a cougar for anything else? ???

Pete

The DNR admits there are cougar in Da UP.  You can protect yourself if it’s a threat to you, but that’s a fine line.

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=372939
http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=447902

yooper77

I don't keep beef cattle any more....got to be too much work for what I got out of it.  I do have 2 horses, 2 dogs, one cat and 4 chickens, a rooster and 3 hens.  This may sound silly to many, but all, including the chickens are pets and friends.  The chickens all have names and come when I call them.  They're comical to watch.  Yeah, they're a pain in the butt sometimes digging holes in the lawn, but they keep the bugs down and give us wonderful brown and green eggs.  I guess what I'm trying to say is these critters are an extention of my family and I will kill anything to protect them.

Pete
Question, do you allow your dogs or cat to free roam?

If so, dogs and especially a well fed cat kills wildlife if allowed to free roam just for the sport.  I consider free roaming pets as vermin.  I have heard of dogs being killed while in the act of chasing (harassment) deer.  The same cure fixes any well fed free roaming house (stray/feral) cat killing wildlife problem.

yooper77

You are something like 90x more likely to be killed by lightning than a mountain lion.  Bees, dogs, deer, and cows are all much more dangerous statistically.  Shark attack is about even, and you are dramatically more likely to be killed in a plane crash or drown.

I'd worry about something that is more likely to get you...
Dukkillr,

I couldn’t have said it better, I completely and totally agree with you.

yooper77

Offline zoner

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2010, 12:44:47 PM »
we got lots of cougars(mountain lions) here in Californy...the libs banned hunting em cuz" the hunters must have killed em all,we never see em"...wrong,they never saw em cuz the lions learned that man was dangerous, and taught their young to stay clear of humans too. Now we have whole generations of lions that have never had a reason to fear man, and that makes them very dangerous. When a lion attacks you will feel fangs and claws before you see em. Just the fact that your lion isn't afraid to lurk near you and your neighbor's homes is plenty good reason to shoot him,Pete. Your 30-30, a shovel,and sealed lips will probly fix the problem....Good luck

Offline petemi

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Re: What Handi to use for cougar?
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2010, 12:51:14 PM »
Yooper, my dogs and cat never roam free.  I hunt with the dogs, but they're under my control.  They have a 2000 plus square foot run which is their home as well as an insulated dog house inside of an insulated milk house in the barn...with back up electric heat if needed.  My cat has never been outside.  He's afraid of it.  I too consider free ranging dogs and cats to be vermin and shot immediately.  If my neighbors dogs run loose by accident, I know the dog and take it home.  None of my local neighbor's dogs kill anything.  When and if they're loose, they just come to visit my mutts.

Zoner, I could not have said it better.  That is the scary thing.  The beastie is comfortable around human habitation.  There's miles and miles of pure wilderness he could be in around here, instead he's here off my front door.

Pete
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
[size=7.4 pt]PLEASE DONATE TO THE GBO SERVER FUND  We're closer to the goal but not there yet, we can still use more donations, thanks

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,191112.msg1098959491.html#msg1098959491