SHTF

[Dances with Geoducks]

Somethings never change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOpErJWSIg0&feature=related

[SHOOTALL]

Funny how this old world has a way of cleanning itself up.

[FourBee]

    

Posted by: Dee  "JUST IN TIME FRIEGHT"

This is true.  Whirlpool Corp. went to this method many years ago.  

So for you guys that are excitedly awaiting, and hoping for the the S to H T Fan. Careful what you wish for. It will be nothing like you envision.

Back in the 60's, times were pretty good, but I've found my 400 lb steers freshly killed, and their hindquarters cut-off and toted away.  If times get bad,  I presume farms and ranches will be over-run.

[243shooter]

a few years ago, a small town north of me in northern wisconsin was in pretty bad shape after a tornado went thru. afterwards the people from surounding areas picked up their chainsaws and started cleaning up right away. nobody sat in a shelter (superdome) and waited for the government to help them. i didn't hear about any looting or raping or gangs running wild.
if there is some kind of cataclysmic disaster, like a super volcano or meteor (i don't believe the good Lord will do that to us, he destroyed the world with a flood once, and promised not to do it again) it will be in God's hands and there won't be much we can do about it.
if there is some other kind of melt down, i'm really not that worried about what will happen around my neck of the woods. the masses in new orleans and the other big cities will riot and loot and rape and then they will sit in the superdome and wait for help. i beleive that most people around here are fairly decent and when shtf we will pick up our chainsaws and clean up the mess.
i'm not saying there won't be an increase in crime, but if there is no other law enforcment left, the bad guys will get taken care of quickly. a lot of us live in rural communities and we know our neighbors and have extended family in the area. i just can't imagine we will all turn agaist each other. and if there is an outside threat from violent mobs invading, i would hope that we would band together to fight them off and help each other out.
if the economy and the country collapses, i don't see myself and my family trying to live out in the woods, eating squirrels, and carrying everthing we need.

[RB Rooson]

I think 243Shooter is probably closer to the truth than many others are on this thread.  There was looting and wide-spread chaos in Haiti and with Katrina, but not in the Iowa floods last year, nor in Tennessee flooding this year.  The tornado is Oklahoma City did not lead to this.....do you see the common basis here?

Living within 50 miles of a major US city, I see problems with roving bands in the cities, but not here.  If all transportation and let's say just gasoline is lacking.....just how do they get here?  Walk?  Areas outside of the metropolis are so foreign to them, that they basically don't know how to deal with it (small digression here:  Once had a group from the city see a white-tail deer in the park and reported it to us as a "kangaroo"!!)  They simply did not know what it was.....of running away from a cottontail because it just "sat still and looked angry at them"??  They did not like the night-time "as it was too quiet" not like the city at all.  They will pillage and loot the city and then just sit......

Who would be the leader of such a group and where would they get their expertise about "going out into the countryside"?  As stated above, I was just talking about gasoline.....think of the logistics of driving out (if possible); some police control, directions for a "band" to go to a certain place.....Folks, have you ever tried just getting four people walking in a straight line?  After a few minutes, you are positive you must be speaking 'ancient greek or something similar.....

[slim rem 7]

yep ,,it ll be bad..i got my woods legs tuned up.. but i don t look forward to living that way..
 its just a way to survive another day..my one rule out there is an will be ,,harm no man,intentionally..
 now my hope is when the lord says its time ,, how i go won t matter to me..long as i don t hurt anyone else.
 i stay with my wife in a nursing home several hrs a day..the ones i feel for the most are the ones just setting ,unable to communicate ..in a virtual prison.. i try with each one to break through a little..sometimes i get some responce,sometimes not..you can have hell right here on earth in a nursing home..
 but my wife will know shes not alone,an know shes loved,,whether she remembers my name or not..
 god bless slim
 

[LAREDOBOB]

It will be when what ever power decides to invade the US and buys their way in through Mexico. I believe there will be hoards crossing the border out of Mexico, overpowering the border and totally invadeing the whole United States. It has already started and we continue to let it happen. Why is that? Why are you the American Citizen allowing your country to be invaded? Why?

[burntmuch]

SLIM youre a good man

[FourBee]

SLIM youre a good man

  Yep; I agree.  It takes love and courage to handle that.   When I was a young man, my old Uncle would just beam     when I'd come to see him at the rest home.  The nurses said he was more active than usual when I visited.   Sometimes he thought I was his youngest brother.  My blessings to you Slim.

[Old Fart]

Talk about odd timing.
We just got hit by a bunch of tornado's here in central oklahoma.
Don't have time to talk about it too much.
My house just got a debris shower.
But our church got leveled along with the local grocery store just west of us.
My brother in law about 15 or 20 miles to the east of me lost his home.

[Oldshooter]

Talk about odd timing.
We just got hit by a bunch of tornado's here in central oklahoma.
Don't have time to talk about it too much.
My house just got a debris shower.
But our church got leveled along with the local grocery store just west of us.
My brother in law about 15 or 20 miles to the east of me lost his home.

Sorry to hear that OF, Hope everyone came out unharmed. "Things" can be rebuilt, God speed rebuilding.  thats a true discription of SHTF!

[FourBee]

O/F;  Sorry to hear that.  I've been bracing for it over here, but it has slid northward around us.  They're saying to expect another round tomorrow. 

[Old Fart]

Well here's my update.

All we got was a shower of debris.
It was pretty weird looking.
All that stuff up in the sky just circling around.

We lost power early on.
After the storm blew over I rolled the generator out and plugged it into the 5th wheel.
We sat out in it for a few hours.
I ran a extension line over to my elderly neighbors.

Around 10:00 the power came back on.
And we slept in the house.

Best I can tell we got lucky.
It must of just bounced over us.

The little church we go to got demolished along with the Country Boy store across the street.

My brother-in-law lost everything except the four wall of his bathroom they were hiding in.
House, workshop, tractor, truck, I mean everything.
But most importantly they are fine, except for the shock.

I had a few phone calls last night warning us.
Appreciate the concern everyone had last night. Thanks everyone.

[Dee]

Glad to hear you came out all right Old Fart. It all went about 25 miles to the north of us.

[Old Fart]

Glad to hear you came out all right Old Fart. It all went about 25 miles to the north of us.

It appears everywhere from southwest of Ardmore north to well north of OKC was the front.
Last I heard was probably in excess of 30 tornados total.
I suspect quite a few more will go unreported.

Dee, you know how it is.
That's the price of living in God's country (Tornado Alley).
You guys see your fair share down there also.

The people around here will just pick up, fix up, and move on.
Probably won't see anyone standing around complaining "Why doesn't the government come fix this."

Folks around here have been through this stuff before.
The May 3rd tornado that wiped out a good piece of the OKC metro area a few years back.
The Murrah federal building bombing.

[Dixie Dude]

I read somewhere that within complete breakdown of society (no electricity, running water, etc.), people will be starving within 6 weeks.  Many will die of cholera, and other diseases.  People will raid each other and stores for food.  Food will give out within the first 2 weeks without transportation from the factories and warehouses.  When they finally get around to leaving the big cities in search of food, probably half or more of the population will be dead.  The only real security is to be as remote from a big city as possible, self-sufficient in gardening, fishing and hunting, as well as raising chickens, cows, or goats.  Basically living like the Amish.  You will need to buy non-electrical and non-motorized equipment to function.  You could use electricity with a steam engine, water wheel, or windmills.  Or you could spend a fortune and buy solar panels.  Living far enough from major cities, and getting to know the locals, will put you in better survival capability.

[MGMorden]

Or you could spend a fortune and buy solar panels.

They're not as expensive as they once were.  This model for example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882260013&cm_re=solar-_-82-260-013-_-Product

is around $400, and will generate 80W.  That's enough power to run a laptop computer, radio, LCD television, or many other lower-power requirement devices.   Just don't expect to get an electric stove or the like running off of it.  

It's a bit farther down on the priority list, but I intend to get one of these eventually.

I've got a decent little bit of stuff tucked away.  Naturally guns, but I'm looking at getting one of the Henry AR-7 clones soon (stowes away into it's own stock and weighs only 2.5lbs, so you can literally toss it into a backpack and go).  I figure that just due to ammo size a .22LR is what you want to have (50 .22 bullets take up about as much space packed as 1 12 ga shell).  Got a lot of ammo, flashlights, knives, hatchet, machete, pots, pans, tent, blankets, matches, fishing tackle, etc packed and ready to go. I've also got a lot of documentation in a notebook - how to build a smokehouse, how to make your own cheese, etc.  Most of the immediate family has been made aware of a specific spot in the forest where we are to meet up if things really fall apart.  We're already pretty far into the woods anyways though (whole family lives pretty close to each other, and we're all 15 miles from the nearest gas station - 20 miles from any town and about 60 miles from anything worthy of being called a city). 

I may or may not need it (and to be truthful, though I see bad things coming, I don't think it'll get THAT bad), but honestly, you can get a LOT of stuff packed away for a $1k-$2k investment, which in the long run really isn't that much to pay for some peace of mind.

[bilmac]

The most important thing you have MG is a plan. Next best thing is you are implementing the plan on this side of SHTF.

[Rock Home Isle]

When You all talk about the Crud hitting the rotating blades.
What do you invision?
And what part of the country are you in?
....... 
Or are some of you planning for a world like the Mad Max series of movies where it is groups, gangs and clans against the world?

My fear is the next pandemic, historically we have one about every 80 years or so, and we're way over due.

A pandemic with a mortality rate of as little as 5-10% would be devastating to our economy, on top of what we're already experiencing. And the Swine Flu of last fall, which caused a lot of concern, had a mortality of less then 1% and it caused mass panic for several months.

But a mortality of 5-10% would be orders of magnitude worse.  Hospitals would be over whelmed, the dispersal of fuel, food and supplies on our highways would be interrupted. There would be runs on grocery stores..and no way to restock them. And then once peoples home supplies are gone then you'll see groups of people banding together trying to protect what they do have and others trying to take it away.

Local police would be deputising people to help with neighborhood law enforcement duties...Think Katrina, but on a coast to coast scale.

Bird Flu is the one that made me nervous...it mutated rapidly and had a mortality of ~30%.

[Dances with Geoducks]

When You all talk about the Crud hitting the rotating blades.

I hope it's not C.R.U.D.

Creek River Unidentified Deposits

Thats nuclear waste, by today's terms.

Before they knew  what it was at the Creek River power plant.

ANy time them particles escape, its a bad day for someone

[teamnelson]

I read somewhere that within complete breakdown of society (no electricity, running water, etc.), people will be starving within 6 weeks.  Many will die of cholera, and other diseases.  People will raid each other and stores for food.  Food will give out within the first 2 weeks without transportation from the factories and warehouses.  When they finally get around to leaving the big cities in search of food, probably half or more of the population will be dead.  The only real security is to be as remote from a big city as possible, self-sufficient in gardening, fishing and hunting, as well as raising chickens, cows, or goats.  Basically living like the Amish.  You will need to buy non-electrical and non-motorized equipment to function.  You could use electricity with a steam engine, water wheel, or windmills.  Or you could spend a fortune and buy solar panels.  Living far enough from major cities, and getting to know the locals, will put you in better survival capability.

Those are all real world scenario events for a lot of the current world. I would suggest that if you can get by without power now, you'd be better off - lots of the world does alright without it.

[Dee]

Interesting show about this very topic on History channel today.

[Land_Owner]

Pretty sad to consider that some camel jockey eating goat cheese in the desert may become the highest form of "modern life" on the planet after the devestation subsides.

[mcwoodduck]

If for what ever reason, Political, or economic, do you think that the farmers will not still bring the food they grow to the cities?
Granted if the left has their way we will be back to horse drawn carts.  and my guess is that more food will be canned or preserved.
But as things happen.  Take the tornados, floods and the oil spill going on right now.
Areas around that are not effected will be where people migrate to for the time being and as things get back to normal people will return.
If Obama has his way and we have an economic colapse in this country and we are no longer a super power, well look at the trasnition of the USSR in to Russia, and the other countries.  Production did not stop, it was disrupted for a while and there was choas but things did settle down.  The down side will be if we co communist, like Obama wants.  So far Communism has killed 100's of Millions, just because.
The Soviet Revolution Killed about a million.
Stalan's purges were about 40 Million.
The Chinese Communists in taking power killed about 1/2 a Million.
The Chinese purge in the early 70's was about 10 Million.
China Today kills about 50,000 a year.
Viet Nam - about 4 Million.
Cambodia - 3 Million.
Cuba- about 1/2 Million.
Cuba Exporting Communism to central and South America 5 Million.
North Korea - About a 1/4 million a year.
Africa- About 30 Million total from all the bush wars and other wars of lieration (should be of Oppression)
This is people that were either killed outright or imprisoned and allowed to die or killed in prison.
I am not talking about the Millions that Die each year due to mal nutrition or lack of medicine.
What really gets me is the so called intelectuals of our universitys that think communism is a good idea.  These are supose to be people that have studied history, they have seen the effects of communism, seen how it does not work, and has never worked and yet they like and want a system were the first to pose for rifle fire when the communists take over are the school teachers, university professors and Union leaders.

Well, to me a Communist take over of this country is a global SHTF moment not a local one.  And don't roll your eyes at me.  The problem we have been having in this country since the 30's is the left keeps getting the right to move inch by inch to the left and it has not gone back, any.  We now have people not only calling for the nationalization of certain industries but the Governemnt has taken over some of those industries.  The federal government is the largest employer in the country, add to that all the State and local government workers and how can we continue to have a system where more people are employed by tax payers than tax payers?

[Empty Quiver]

Mcwoodduck , You are right if we do become communist who in the heck is going to be baling out the rest of the commies. The simple truth our excesses have allowed the rest of the world to thrive as US parasites.  That is very a simplistic but fast explaination of our relationship with the rest of the world.

The world is tired of golden goose omlets, they have demanded golden goose patte'. I fear the customer will get what they want. The farmer has made enough money selling eggs, he can retire, maybe move to a small country and invest in carbon credits.

Here's to hoping the goose has Hepititus C. 

[teamnelson]

I travelled Azerbaijan not long after Russia pulled out. No one knew how to maintain or operate the infrastructure. So power, water and sewer stopped flowing. Couple years of low yield farming before they figured it out and then it was still very small ... donkey drawn plows around massive rusting tractors sitting right where a Russian parked it. Women and children would walk miles with a bucket for water not realizing the water was most often contaminated so disease was rampant. This was a 2nd world country with millenia old culture that still had a government in place. Massive corruption, frontier justice. When I look into our future I see images from that trip.

[FourBee]

posted by:  mcwoodduck ;     If for what ever reason, Political, or economic, do you think that the farmers will not still bring the food they grow to the cities?

My Dad went to Calif. during the depression.  Avoiding the work camps, he stayed in abandoned farm houses throughout the valley, moving often to keep from being detected by the authorities.   He survived for awhile from the  vegetable and fruit farms that had harvested their crops and dumped the harvest at the ends of their fields to rot, because of no transportation. 

[Graybeard]

I sure hope I'm wrong but I think folks are just not understanding what is coming. It seems beyond the ability of most to even consider such a thing can happen here in the US. BUT.....

The way I see it coming down is this.

Picture if you can the Revolutionary war, the Civil War, the black plague and the depression all happening here in the entire US all at the same time. Now if you can imagine double that much trouble and I think you'll have a fair idea of what is ahead for us. I honestly believe even that is an understatement of what we'll see in our life times.

[teamnelson]

GB, amen twice: 1. what our future holds. 2. most folks don't get it. Keep buying gold, ammo and generators folks. Our great great grandchildren will need something to decorate their buckskins with.

[bilmac]

I'll bet the citizens of the USSR thought, nothin's ever gonna change. and then a few months later their whole world is upside down. The Jews on the eve of WW II should have been able to see the writing on the wall, but a large number of them kept telling themselves everything would work out, until it was too late to flee.

Just last night Dave Ramsey was on the tube saying, "Everything will be OK, the American economy will never collapse." What makes us think that we are so special that bad bad times can never happen to us.

When we do things so stupid as to give our government over to a bunch of incompetants, many of whom even hate our way of life, we are on our way to falling off the cliff. Lots of folks think we have a chance to save ourselves in November, and I pray they are right, but I have the feeling that damage done years ago is coming home to roost, and if we elect the very best government for the next several elections, they couldn't fix what is bound to happen.