25-06 Just Right for Whitetails

[nw_hunter]

Have any of you ever taken a hog with a 25-06?  How did it perform?

I killed 3 Hogs with a 25-06 when I lived in South AR, about 16 years ago. This was before I used Partitions
in that cal. & the TSX was not to be found. I used the old 120gr. Solid Base with fine results.

You didn't hunt down in the Saline river bottoms, or Bradshaw Breaks did ya?

[nw_hunter]

I was brought up hunting with the elders in my family saying that one should have nothing less than a 30-06 for deer.

Had the opportunity to blast one with a 25-06 last week.  The bullet was a reloaded Nosler 100 gr. ballistic tip traveling at about 3150 fps from the muzzle.

The deer was about 200 yards away and gave me a perfect broadside shot.  The bullet hit square in the shoulder and went completely though the other shoulder with signs of good expansion.  The doe ran about 15 yards and crashed hard.

With such mild recoil, little muzzle blast, and flat trajectory, I'm convinced you can't ask for a better deer cartridge.

So many good Caliber's out there, and the 2506 is one of them. I've killed a few with it, and even more Blacktail in Oregon with my varmint gun in 22/250.I don't remember losing one or trailing one far after shooting it. Bullet placement is the important equation IMHO!

[shot1]

Three things that I have learned over the years about loading the 25-06 is this.
1. Primers do make a difference. I cured my ill shooting 25-06 by going to CCI 250 primers.
2.They will shoot best with near to max loads.
3. Play with the seating depth. When you find a reasonable accurate load. Start at about 10 thousands off the lands and move away from the lands 10 more thousands at a time and shoot groups and see what happens. I don't want to load a bullet any closer than 10 thousands off the lands for my hunting ammo. Things do happen, and you can stick a bullet in the bore and dump your action full of powder and you can be stuck with a rifle with a plugged up bore with no cleaning rod to pop the bullet loose. Don't ask how I know this.

[Brithunter]

Are you suggesting using magnum primers even with powders such as H4350?

I ask because I am working with H4350 and the Nosler 85 Grn Ballistic Tip in my 25-06 at the moment. The powder charge is 52.0 grains which is not maximum and the CCI 200's seem to be doing fine but if an improvement can be gained from using the CCI 250's I will try it. I even have afw hundred of them on hand as it happens 

I do not have any of the slow burning powders. Reloader 22 might be available but I don't know about H4831 or IMR 4831. Locally they're about all I have the chance to get that I know of either Hodgdons of Reloader Oh and Vhitovouri are about the Choice and no we cannot order by post due to dumb regulations.

[Dave in WV]

Brithunter, I don't know if using magnum primers will benefit your load but keep in mind a 25-06 is a beltless magnum cartridge even though most folks don't consider it a magnum.

[shot1]

As long as you are not at max loads you can usually get by with switching primers without trouble. But if you are at max you will need to back off on the powder a little and work up to see where your pressures go. When working up loads for my current 25-06 it shot most any bullet with H-4831 or IMR 4350 under 1 1/2" at 100 yards. I am one for real accuracy and I want my rifles to be able to shoot 3 shots in about the same hole at 100 yards. The most accurate load with the 117 Sierra bullet that I wanted to use was with 49 grs of IMR-4350 but with the CCI-BR@ primers that I was using it still would not shoot as tight as I thought it should which was 1/2". I started trying different primers and when I got to the CCI 250 BINGO they all went into the same hole literally. At 300 yards it will put 5 shots under 1" on a calm day. I will agree with Dave in WV that the 25-06 is really a beltless magnum in my book also. I am not saying that the 250 mag primer will help your load but that trying it can't hurt and it might help. It could be any other make of primer would improve you load. You will never know until you try them. BTW the 85 Nosler BT is really too light for deer hunting if that is what you are working up the load for. It is a great varmint bullet as is the Sierra 87 SP. Both have a very high red mist factor on groundhogs from a 25-06. My current rifle really likes IMR or AA 4350. I use the same powder load and it shoots to the same POI with either powder.

[nomosendero]

Have any of you ever taken a hog with a 25-06?  How did it perform?

I killed 3 Hogs with a 25-06 when I lived in South AR, about 16 years ago. This was before I used Partitions
in that cal. & the TSX was not to be found. I used the old 120gr. Solid Base with fine results.

You didn't hunt down in the Saline river bottoms, or Bradshaw Breaks did ya?

No, but I like that area. This was a creek bottom that fed into the Ouachita in Ouachita Co.

[Brithunter]

As long as you are not at max loads you can usually get by with switching primers without trouble. But if you are at max you will need to back off on the powder a little and work up to see where your pressures go. When working up loads for my current 25-06 it shot most any bullet with H-4831 or IMR 4350 under 1 1/2" at 100 yards. I am one for real accuracy and I want my rifles to be able to shoot 3 shots in about the same hole at 100 yards. The most accurate load with the 117 Sierra bullet that I wanted to use was with 49 grs of IMR-4350 but with the CCI-BR@ primers that I was using it still would not shoot as tight as I thought it should which was 1/2". I started trying different primers and when I got to the CCI 250 BINGO they all went into the same hole literally. At 300 yards it will put 5 shots under 1" on a calm day. I will agree with Dave in WV that the 25-06 is really a beltless magnum in my book also. I am not saying that the 250 mag primer will help your load but that trying it can't hurt and it might help. It could be any other make of primer would improve you load. You will never know until you try them. BTW the 85 Nosler BT is really too light for deer hunting if that is what you are working up the load for. It is a great varmint bullet as is the Sierra 87 SP. Both have a very high red mist factor on groundhogs from a 25-06. My current rifle really likes IMR or AA 4350. I use the same powder load and it shoots to the same POI with either powder.

The reason I am trying the 85 Grain bullets is that having tried three factory loads, two with 117 Grn Bullets (Sako and Federal) and one with the 100 grain Nosler Ballistic tip (Federal Premium) none of which grouped particularly well and some friends suggested trying these 85 grain bullets so I am doing so. The load is 52.0 grains of H4350 with a COL of 3.165" which puts the base of the bullet about level with the neck shoulder junction. This is a middle range load and 2 grains under max according to my Hodgdons #26 manual. I have loaded five test cartridges using the CCI 250's to see how it goes and hopefully will get to try them tomorrow morning. Oh at 70 yards they are grouping in the main around 1 MOA:-


But I get these low shots as well  that was from yesterday


this is from last week before I fitted the new Simmons Aetec scope.

I will be using them on deer yes but the deer in question are small, Roe Does weigh about 35-50lbs and Fallow buck are most likely in the 70-120lbs region so small compared with most American Deer.

[pozoutdoors]

The 85gr. ballistic silver tip is all I have used in my .25-06 encore so far. I have shot a bunch of does here in iowa and 2 does and a big 10 point in missouri using these bullets!! If you hit the kill zone they will go down or not far. I haven't found a need to use a bigger bullet yet. I will also use this load for coyotes, but haven't yet.

[Brithunter]

Ok I just fired the five rounds using the CCI 250 Magun primers and it pushed the pressue to the limit in thsi rifle but once again confusion raises it's head   as four of the five have flattened primers yet one does not   yet one one case with a flattened primer also shows a ghost of the ejector slot in the Mauser bolt face sp pressure is on the limit as I said. The group show almost no vertical variation being 0.3" high but it's strung horizontally to 1 1/2". I will size and re-chanrge these cases with 1/2 grain less and try again.


Hmmm on second thoughts perhaps I had better drop it one whole grain 

The only other change I shall make is to wear a different coat   I have become fairly convinced that my "new" fleece is not conductive to good prone shooting as one has to make sure it does not ruck up under the butt pad and I feel it's part of the problem with the stringing but only trying a different coat will tell for sure. If we can nail this stringing horizontally down then we will have a load capabe of 1/2" or less grouping  . BUT there was no sign of the previous dropped low shots  

[shot1]

Brithunter what rifle are you using? If you are having stringing problems in any direction it may be that you have a bedding problem. I would for sure have the barrel free floated and the action glass bedded if it is a bolt rifle. You mentioned also "shooting prone". Are you shooting off a solid front and back rest? If not then it could be you that is making the stringing. The 85 gr BT should be OK on those small deer. Factory ammo will not give you a good idea most of the time what the accuracy potential is with the same weight bullet that is handloaded just for that rifle. With your load with the 85's I would play with the seating depth. It is trying to shoot well.

[Brithunter]

You might notice in the previous photo posted it had two low shots and no horizonta stringing.

The rifle in question is a bolt action yes It's a Mauser 98 action being in fact a Parker-Hale 1200C and no it's not free floated and it's never likely to be as I am not enamoured witht he free floating concept. The rifle still has it's factory bedding and a pressure point at the fore stock.

Now the shooting is done with the forestock rested on a sanb bag which is rested on a ammo can the idea is to mimic a prone field position.

The horizontal stringing I fear is my fault as I have noticed it with another rifle and load :-


That's shot with a 6mm Rem chambered rifle that is free floated, it came that was from the factory  ,


This one is from another rifle a 270 win this time trying out the Sierra 140 Grain HPBT bullet. I tried more than one load on that target as you might notice.

I fear it's my technique that needs working on.

[yellowtail3]

2.  Take into account:  That the .25-06 is danged loud! And I mean LOUD!

Then how loud is the 257 Wea, 264 WM, 7RM, 300 mags, etc. it would be loud for an easterner shooting Varmits by a neighbors house, another good reason not to live in the East, other than that I have no idea
why the 25-06 would be louder than stated rounds & many, many others. To me it's a non-issue compared to about anything I shoot.

Yes, the 25-06 is loud - anything based on the 30-06 case is loud. All those cartridges with an M in them are worse. Which is why I'm sort of anti-magnum.

Go out to range/field behind house. Take three shots with a 30-30, and then take three shots with any of the above listed... substantial diff.

I like the 30-30. The deer do not.

[shot1]

Yes I am satisfied as you that it is your shooting technique that is your accuracy problem. When working up loads you should always shoot off a bench with forearm and butt held secure on sandbags. That takes most of the human bobbles out of the mix. Once you find your load then practice your field positions.
I have never seen a rifle that when properly glass bedded and having the barrel free floated would not shoot better than one with a pressure point.

[Brithunter]

Yes I am satisfied as you that it is your shooting technique that is your accuracy problem. When working up loads you should always shoot off a bench with forearm and butt held secure on sandbags. That takes most of the human bobbles out of the mix. Once you find your load then practice your field positions.
I have never seen a rifle that when properly glass bedded and having the barrel free floated would not shoot better than one with a pressure point.

  LOL sorry but I can show you a couple, of course they have never been free floated and I am not bout to wreck a decent bedding job and a superior walnut stock just to prove a point. This 3 shot group was made with a 130 grain Hornady SP and H-335 powder from a 30-30 bolt action that has a tightly inletted and bedded barrel and action directly into the walnut stock:-




That is the rifle with a nice Muntjac Doe and yes it's fully grown 

Now I don't have a bench at home as yet. It's on the to do list along with re-sighting the backstop and beefing it up. I am hoping to put up an impliment shelter which I can also use to shoot from which will provide some shelter from the elements when testing loads and stuff. Most will have to wait not only for funds but right now our field is flooding so it will be late spring before i can really move everything around and if I manage it correctly then I will be able to double to distance to the target 

[GradyL41]

I started using the 25.06 on ghogs -- then deer -- now if the area is open --all i use is the 25.06 usually the 115 BT at a book load of 3100-- or the Partation at the same speed -- this load has taken an 11PT 238# whitetail at 175  and a spike at 340 long steps - --a deer flopping and flayling over a mt which I have had happen too is not a good case to judge a round by - as they get a big helping hand from gravity -- now some times mine will run mostly they do not-- shot a 1.5 year old doe on Monday-=- high through both shoulders at about 180 steps -- and with that hit there was no real movement - at all--when I hunt for challenge -- cast bullets in a .358 or my .41 Mag -btw my .358 almost always lets the deer run and I have shot them with 200 PSPCL --225 Seirra-- and 250 RN -- I still like the .358 and other than handgun hunting I have one fav cal for deer and deer size animals .--25.06-I may even try some 100 gr in it

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  I guess when I look back, most of my deer have been shot with 7mm's or .30 caliber rifles...When I think of those deer and there were dozens, I don't remember any 'flopping and flaying" down the mt. like this last buck, they may have had a short burst and fell, but they were down and out.  Their head was not up looking around, and giving me the impression they "might" get it together and make another attempt at an escape...I don't mind shooting big game or small, but I want it dead and out when I do my part and make a good solid hit.  This did not happen in this case...It may have with a partition, but that is something that cannot be known as no two shots are every the same...

[nomosendero]

I guess when I look back, most of my deer have been shot with 7mm's or .30 caliber rifles...When I think of those deer and there were dozens, I don't remember any 'flopping and flaying" down the mt. like this last buck, they may have had a short burst and fell, but they were down and out.  Their head was not up looking around, and giving me the impression they "might" get it together and make another attempt at an escape...I don't mind shooting big game or small, but I want it dead and out when I do my part and make a good solid hit.  This did not happen in this case...It may have with a partition, but that is something that cannot be known as no two shots are every the same...

"no two shots are ever the same" Man, that's a fact!! I am still scratching my head about that Buck my Wife shot with the 270 & how it covered 60 yds. with the shoulders busted & the carnage to the vitals! 
But this I do know about shooting animals, you can't draw conclusions about an one incident & I have seen things that should not occur, but did.

[SHOOTALL]

Shot a doe yesterday with my 25-06 . Used 100 gr. BT. went in one shoulder and out the other . Shot was about 70 yards . Same result as many times before .

[shot1]

"no two shots are ever the same" Man, that's a fact!!

For me the worst caliber that I have ever used on deer was a 7mm Rem mag. I shot 11 deer with this rifle and only dropped one in it's tracks. All but 2 were shot through the front shoulders. The one that I dropped in it's tracks was shot just behind the front shoulder and exited through the liver with a 145 Speer Grand Slam. I also used 139 and 154 gr Hornady, and 160 gr Sierra and 140 Nosler BT trying to find a bullet that would drop deer in their tracks. I finally gave up and traded off the rifle for another 25-06, I already had one. I don't have to trail 99% of the deer that I shoot with the 25-06.

The thing is with the 7 Mag the deer would run off 100 yards or so and when you find them and skin them out they look like they have been hit with a bushhog. Their front end was pulped. I did make what I call my best shot ever on a deer with this rifle. It was the first deer I ever shot with this rifle. It was the only shot I had and I shot this 5 point buck off hand at exactly 300 yards. I called the shot, told my hunting buddy that I placed the 139 gr Hornady bullet in the center of the deers front shoulder before we went to look for it. I was astonished that the deer ran off. From what I had heard the 7 mag was supposed to lay them in the grass big time. We found the deer nearly 100 yards from where I had shot it and we found NO BLOOD trail. I just found the deer laying down a trail it had run down while circling looking for it. The bullet did not exit but it had hit exactly where I said I placed it, I had a 300 yards zero on the rifle. I shot two more deer with this bullet and had the same results. I did knock one deer off it's feet with the 154 Hornady. It got right back up and took off and ran close to 100 yards. Go figure.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

shot1, Go figure is right...I have used the 7mm Mag. inboth Rem. and Wea. and have had wonderful success on mulies, whitetails, antelope, elk,moose, axis deer, caribou, black bear and varmits..For me as a killer the .25-06 doesn't hold a candle to the 7mm's.........When she was alive, a custom 7mm Mag. was my wife's favorite caliber for her big game hunting. I saw her drop several antelope in their tracks at over 300 yards...and drop a huge moose with one 140 grain Nosler BTBT. the moose took one step and fell.  I would say most if not all of our questionable performance came from the 24 and 25 caliber rifles....Now I like my .25-06. If I were picking three rifles to keep for hunting it would be a .22-250, .25-06 and .300, but the faith in the .25-06 is not as strong for big game as it once was...

[nomosendero]

shot1, Go figure is right...I have used the 7mm Mag. inboth Rem. and Wea. and have had wonderful success on mulies, whitetails, antelope, elk,moose, axis deer, caribou, black bear and varmits..For me as a killer the .25-06 doesn't hold a candle to the 7mm's.........When she was alive, a custom 7mm Mag. was my wife's favorite caliber for her big game hunting. I saw her drop several antelope in their tracks at over 300 yards...and drop a huge moose with one 140 grain Nosler BTBT. the moose took one step and fell.  I would say most if not all of our questionable performance came from the 24 and 25 caliber rifles....Now I like my .25-06. If I were picking three rifles to keep for hunting it would be a .22-250, .25-06 and .300, but the faith in the .25-06 is not as strong for big game as it once was...

Let me know the results when you try the 120 Part. at 3,200 or so.  Basically, it is everything Russell
Thornberry talked about in the linked article for Alberta Whitetails & a wee bit more.  BTW, I like your 3 caliber choices, not much you can't do with those on this continent.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   That is in my plan for next fall..I am thinking of some 115 grain Part. and maybe some 100 grain..Part...The 100 grain Serria load in my .25 is a dandy for coyotes and varmits...So thought I might give the Part. a try in that wt. also...

[shot1]

I used some 115 partitions for a couple of years but for me and the size deer I was shooting in NC the 117 Sierra did just as good and was A LOT CHEAPER and just a hair more accurate.

[SHOOTALL]

The 100 gr BT works well and varmits and you don't have to change your scope settings .
 And "no two shots are the same" maybe but a lot of them are so close it would be hard to see the difference .

[Brithunter]

Oh how plans get changed  I went to the gunshop to get some more bullets and powder and guess what?

Yep they had run out of H4350 and didn't have any IMR 4350 so perusing the stock I brought a tub of Reloader 19. I have about 1/3-1/4 of a tub of H4350 left maybe less and I have about 20 or so the 85 Grn Ballistic Tips left. So looking through the bullet stock and comparing the prices I changed the game plan and picked up a box of Speer 120 grain bullet for the 25-06 and we will see how they fly so fingers crossed that they like the Reloader 19  .

I have loaded 10 so far 10 with 47.0 Grn and 9 with 48.0 grn with the bullet seated to a COL of 3.145" which I believe should put it about 0.020" off the leade.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

nonmosendaro, I have read the posts about the .25-06 and guys shooting deer at 300 + yards...Shooting deer on control is lots different from shooting pressured animals.. Even shooting deer on large game clubs is far different than hunting public land...The animals on public hunts is usually stressed and hyped up far more than creatures going about their daily lives...I have been plagued by this 115 grain Nosler BTBT and my .25-06 since shooting that buck...I regret not skinning it myself to look over that wound..That buck was not running scared, but he was definately on the move from other hunters...He was stopped looking back and the rest of the deer with him had moved on...He only hesitated long enough to smell where a doe had been or I may have not gotten a shot....When I think of the doubts I have that bother me as far as the 24 & 25 caliber rifles, all come when game was shot at a distance of say over 250 yards... I shot two whitetails with that rifle and load at less than 250, and it did a fine job....Last evening I was reading a piece by an Alaskan who desribed basicly what I have seen over say 225yd. the 24 25 cal. rifles quickly loose their ability to anchor game quickly and efficently..Oh, I am sure kills can be made, and I have done it, but it seems like more often I have questionable results when I use my .25 cal. at 250+.  Also as with most, my normal big game shooting is less distance, but still I take a couple animals each year beyond the distance mentioned...I intend to try the Nosler Part. in both 100 and 115 grain next fall, but with the 7mm's or larger calibers the regular cup and core bullets were fine for deer.... Just some thoughts on a incedent that bothers me....

[nomosendero]

WCH, it never hurts to go with your gut. However, I use a different bullet at a different vel. & it has not once been lacking for quick 300-400 yard kills. The 120Nos Part. at 3,200+ just works. It is noteworthy that Russell Thornberry killed about 50 Whitetails with the 115 Part & many were large Alberta Whitetails
(out to 400yds. BTW) & this is 5 grains lighter & a lower muzzel vel. than my load.

It does not surprise me that you had this experience with a Deer you shot & if the story had been with a 270 or 30-06 it still would not surprise me either, because if you shoot enough Deer you will have some that did not read the script. I quit counting my Deer kills after the century mark, which was a long time ago. I hunt with others with a great deal of experience & we have seen a few isolated incidents that should not have occured, but did. If you are more comfortable with 7mm & above then go for it & it is allways good to hear about your hunts.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   Nomosendaro, I haven't given up on my .25-06, but as I said this bugs me, but things as you say happen that should not...I am going to give the Part. a try, However when digging around my stuff, I found when I spent some time in Ore. a few years ago, I went to the Nosler Plant, bought a bunch of 22 cal. seconds...I remember getting those, but also found some .30 cal. 180 Acc. Bond and several hundred .25 cal. 110 grain Acc. bond. I knew I had a few cause I tried some test loads find I have a couple hundred...Have you given these a try in your .25-06? They are a beautiful bullet, and preformed well in my .340 this fall...Think they are as suitable as the Part. for deer??

[shot1]

 It does not surprise me that you had this experience with a Deer you shot & if the story had been with a 270 or 30-06 it still would not surprise me either, because if you shoot enough Deer you will have some that did not read the script. I quit counting my Deer kills after the century mark, which was a long time ago. I hunt with others with a great deal of experience & we have seen a few isolated incidents that should not have occured, but did. If you are more comfortable with 7mm & above then go for it & it is allways good to hear about your hunts.
[/quote]

I agree whole heartedly with you. There are always exceptions with anything. I have killed deer in almost any circumstance from muzzle to over 400 yards with 25-06's. They have been running flat out in front of dogs in NC. Pushed by other hunters. Stoked up chasing does or fighting other bucks. And the list could go on. In my vast experience using the 25-06 on white tail deer, especially with the 117 Sierra bullets, it has been 99% one shot, bang flop. Those that did move out of their tracks average between 30 and 50 yards before they are down for the count.