Four Cops Murdered by Pardoned Violent Criminal

[Dee]

Hate to bust your bubble Casull but, you don't know what your talking about.

Hate to bust your bubble Dee, but you don't know what you are talking about.  Arkansas sentences are meted out by the judge.  A jury may sentence a defendant, subject to the judge's consent.  And even after the jury issues the sentence, the judge may reduce it, and in any event, the judge imposes the sentence.

Arkansas Code Annotated section
16-97-101 governs the bifurcated sentencing procedures in Arkansas, and it provides in
subsection (6) that “[a]fter a plea of guilty, the defendant, with the agreement of the
prosecution and the consent of the court, may be sentenced by a jury impaneled for purposes
of sentencing only.

Actually, jury imposed sentences are fairly rare, and even in death penalty cases where the jury votes on it, the judge typically has the last say.

I once had a guy give a confession and then say I violated his rights while HE GAVE a written confession.

You're rambling again, Dee.  That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.  

Go back to law school.  that is, IF you have ever been in the first place.

Well, I actually have.  Have you?  

Also you need to research the duties of Governor. He is not part of the Judicial System in the relm of deciding court cases. He mis-used a power that was for "special circumstances".

I think you need to follow your own advice, Dee.  Show me where it is written that a Governor is limited to granting pardons in "special circumstances".  He is not so limited.  And, therefore, he is part of the judicial system, at least when it comes to determining pardons.  I sure hope you were a better LEO than you are a lawyer.  

Well you going to law school explains a lot. But if you didn't prosecute or defend this case you don't know whom decided what (Judge or Jury) any more than any one else here. You like the rest are speculating and making statements that may or may not be right.
As far as my LE career I'll bet I was as good at what I did, as you ever will be at being a good lawyer. If there is such a thing.

[45-70.gov]

you  cant  lock  every one  up
the  jails  are overcrowded

need  to  let some out  early  so  you can  lock up  some   pot  smokers
 this  counrty has  more  people in  prison per capita  than  any other  country

the  land  of the free
50%  in  there  on drug related  charges [dummies  killing  themselves...good  ridence]

got  to  let  the real  bad ones out  to  do some  REAL DAMAGE
 to  justify  the  jobs  waisted  in the catch and  release program

[billy_56081]

Sounds like a whole lot of people kept letting this creep go.

[Oldshooter]

Sounds like a whole lot of people kept letting this creep go.

Well that sums it up Billy ! Its like no one can read, or something!

[Casull]

You like the rest are speculating and making statements that may or may not be right.

Not quite.  I was making a statement regarding the law in Arkansas.

As far as my LE career I'll bet I was as good at what I did, as you ever will be at being a good lawyer.

I'd take that bet.

Now, for the down and dirty.  Dee, you don't like lawyers.  We all know that.  There are plenty who don't like cops (a few on here that I've seen).  The gist of it is this:  It looks like Huckabee made a mistake.  Imagine that, a human making a mistake.  I'll bet he could even admit it was a mistake (if there weren't the media to immediately attack him if he did so).  I have made mistakes, and I will admit to them.  Have you ever admitted to your mistakes?  Seriously, you seem to not have that ability.  So, can we act like men and disagree without the petty, childish insults?  I mean, if I say that you are wrong, can you simply disagree without attacking me?  I'll try if you do.  If you don't then let's have at it.

[Dee]

Well Casull, we were all making statements about what happened in Arkansas, AND Washington. It was you that started telling folks they were wrong. The truth of the matter was "we were all voicing our opinions" on what had been done. That's what the thread was about, you changed the tone by attacking our opinions, and saying we were wrong. Then dukkiller comes in and gets condescending in his "I'm a lawyer and I know" attitude when he wasn't there either, nor does he know the case, any better than ANY OF US. I was in Texas at the time, and he most likely was in Kansas.
The truth is: LAWYERS are the ones that got him out, EVERY TIME, and now there are four police officers dead, and a little girl raped. LAWYERS meddled in something and caused a chain reaction of tragedies. They being lawyers could not let justice alone.
This was a discussion, you and the duk made it something else.
NOW! As far as my not having any use for lawyers, I don't think I've been very subtle about it. So what's you point there? This thread is a valid argument for my attitude on that subject.
Now that the thread is derailed I'm done. I have said all I have to say.

[Casull]

you changed the tone by attacking our opinions, and saying we were wrong

As a matter of fact and law, you were wrong.  BTW, attacking your opinion and stating that you were wrong is called disagreeing.  I admit that is what I was doing, disagreeing with you.  Attacking someone personally, because you disagree is called being childish.  That is what you did.

The truth is: LAWYERS are the ones that got him out, EVERY TIME, and now there are four police officers dead, and a little girl raped. LAWYERS meddled in something and caused a chain reaction of tragedies.

That is not the Truth, but rather your take on things.  Huckabee, a Governor and preacher, commuted his sentence, and a parole board released him.

NOW! As far as my not having any use for lawyers, I don't think I've been very subtle about it. So what's you point there?

My point is, can you address the issues without your whiny little rips on lawyers?  How would you like it if members on here constantly ripped on cops because they had run into a number of them that weren't fit to walk the earth?  So, can we act like men and disagree without the childish insults?

[dukkillr]

You know, I had a nice little piece all written up to respond in tone to what Dee wrote earlier.  Then when I hit publish it gave me that little warning about how someone else had posted, so I rethought what I had written.  I won't lower myself to the childish tactics.  I didn't mean to insult anyone specifically with my first sentence but rather to point out that much of what is being declared with great finality lacks the requisite knowledge of the facts (and at the end of my post I included myself in that so save the pot/kettle thing).  Dee took this personally and I am capable of admitting that part of that reason lies with me.  Until tonight I actually thought we had reached a private "respect to disagree" status for each other, but apparently I was wrong.

After that I did nothing but clarify points that had been made in error before.  Everything I wrote was right and should have been helpful to those who don't know a great deal on this subject.  After all, not everyone here has a law degree or practices law every day of their life.  The statement about him being sentenced by a jury was wrong, and that's what I set out to clarify.  Sorry for the confusion. 

Casull you have made a handful of great posts.

[Casull]

Casull you have made a handful of great posts.

Well, I've made a lot of posts, so I don't know if that is a compliment or insult.  I think I'll take it as a compliment.   

[Squib]

if the state has the power to imprison someone at all, then the state has the power to take away life... and the duty to do so if the offender is really bad enough that he/she must be removed from society.  quick 10rd magazine dump from any 22lr in the face at ten yds... or a claw hammer, so many (financially) cheap and satisfying ways to put an end to murderers, rapists, molesters of children... someone should be watching the pervs through scopes, not parole check-ins.  apparently the guy was a good cryer though, because huckabee wasn't the only one stupid enough to let him out... his record got longer but he kept getting out post huckabee.  also, the last time he posted bond so he paid his way, and the courts need money because freedom isn't free 

alsaqr, I'd feel pretty mad too... I'm not calling you out by saying this, just reinforcing what you probably know now, kill perpetrators from now on... rush them and kill them.  do you live in a castle law state (then if not now?)

[alsaqr]

Seattle police killed the scumbag early this morning.  Several people, including his sister, are under arrest for assisting the wounded criminal.  

The so called "justice" system in WA needs some serious house cleaning in the aftermath of this train wreck.  First order of business should be to determine how a violent scumbag with a long rap sheet who hit a cop and raped a little girl got back on the street. 


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091201/ap_on_re_us/us_officers_shot

Huckabee said on Fox News Channel's "The O'Reilly Factor" Monday night that Clemmons was allowed back on the street because prosecutors failed to file paperwork in time.

Pulaski County Prosecutor Larry Jegley, whose office opposed Clemmons' parole in 2000 and 2004, said Huckabee's comments were "red herrings."

"My word to Mr. Huckabee is man up and own what you did," Jegley said.

[myronman3]

you have to love a perfect ending to such horrible events.   i hope he suffered alot before they killed him.  too bad this ending didnt happen the first time this scumbag committed a crime.   think of all the lives this p.o.s. affected in such a negative way; and how different it all would have been if he had been killed the first time he broke the law. 

[beerbelly]

I think the cops ought to take a lesson from this.  Don't congregate in public places with your guard down.  It's kind of like defensive driving; you've got to believe that they are all out to get you

The cops already have the attitude that it is them against us! These guys were just taken by surprise by a very bad guy that should not have been given a $15,000 bond with the charges he was facing.
 But by dropping the bond some money could be made. I wonder if the judges own the bail bonding company, or if some of their relatives do!
                                 Beerbelly

[billy_56081]

Bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang....................................................... FREEZE!

[alsaqr]

do you live in a castle law state (then if not now?)

We live in OK now.  OK is a castle state.  When that incident happened to me over 45 years ago we were living in an eastern state.  The police did not charge me and the grand jury no-billed the case.  In that state today a person would be charged and the grand jury would most likely indict.  


1.  Live in a pro-self defense state.

2.  Carry a gun at all times and have one within easy reach at home.  

3.  Don't go to places where you cannot carry legally.  

4.  If attacked, shoot to stop the attacker/s.  

[Oldshooter]

Good ending to a sad story! My prayers for the families!

OK I'm wondering about some details, Was this guy "clint eastwood" or what? How do you shoot 4 cops? did he get the drop on them and then execute them or was it a gun fight and he won?

Sleuths get on the job!

[MGMorden]

OK I'm wondering about some details, Was this guy "clint eastwood" or what? How do you shoot 4 cops? did he get the drop on them and then execute them or was it a gun fight and he won?

If they were all at the same table it's no surprise.  I'd wager he could have 2 down before they realized anything was happening and 3 and 4 down before their guns were out of their holster. 

Surprising someone isn't hard, and anybody that snaps - armed populace or no - will almost invariably be able to take out 6-10 people before anyone can react.  The difference is had the whole place been armed the guy likely wouldn't have made it back out of the door.

[Oldshooter]

So I have read that the perp did have a wound from the murder scene! Hard to believe that he could shoot all four before anyone could pull a gun out!  Seems he did not! The report will be interesting nonetheless.

[SHOOTALL]

The fact most wish not to face is a lone gunman out to get someone or several would be almost unstoppable . Its a fact of life .

[rex6666]

Ever ask the question? If Huckabee had let him do his 90+ year sentence what would have happened? Answer? Nothing. The Officers would have went home to their families that night. Now they will never be home. I have personally delivered those death messages to families. It is an event that stick with the messenger, and the recipient.
A killing is not a big deal, unless you do the killing, or a member of you family is the victim. Then it is a very big deal.
 A jury of his piers convicted him, and sentenced him, and ONE MAN, overturned that conviction, and 4 officers died in one room. And he hasn't been caught yet, sooooo?
Do you feel it ok that when the State of California voted on the illegals by a huge margin that it was ok for 4 or 5 judges to over turn an election?

ever ask why the state of wa. let him go a week before. Huck commuted his sentence to 47 years, Parole board later decided to let him out.

[rex6666]

For me, the real issue is more recent. This guy was out on bail for raping a child.

bearmgc that makes too much sense, these guys can't blame Huckabee for
that.

[Questor]

But the child can.

[gypsyman]

Huckabee was but one of many in this sad lists of events. Maybe, just maybe, what with Ft.Hood a couple weeks ago, this incident, the legal system might take a look at how things are turning out. I doubt it. What might help is somebody goes postal at a lawyers convention and takes out a slew of them, and that person had a criminal record, and was let out because of a technacality. I can dream can't I . gypsyman

[SHOOTALL]

so now we say the system failed ?
who made the system ? is it their fault ?

[powderman]

At least the bg is dead, the suffering of the victims loved ones is just starting. I hope his family who helped him are charged with felonies and spend a LONG time in prison. POWDERMAN. 

[1marty]

Hugabee probably should unpack his bags as the Whitehouse is not in his future. Here's a guy who gets 107 year sentence for volent crimes in Arkansas and Mike pardons him. His excuse was he commuted 1500 sentences each year and can't be expected to get them all right.

[Cheesehead]

I wonder what the maximum penalties are for aiding this criminal, it is what they should receive.

Cheese

[torpedoman]

"never let a good crisis go to waste" We can use this to get a smear on huckabee and completely ignore the fact that he was in custody in WASHINGTON on child rape and assault on an officer and surely in violation of his parole and they decided that he was a mental case but no danger to society so they let him out on bail and this fact seems to be ignored  but we can go back years and get a smear on someone who may run against the interests of the liberal press and the democrats that they blindly support

[Oldshooter]

"never let a good crisis go to waste" We can use this to get a smear on huckabee and completely ignore the fact that he was in custody in WASHINGTON on child rape and assault on an officer and surely in violation of his parole and they decided that he was a mental case but no danger to society so they let him out on bail and this fact seems to be ignored  but we can go back years and get a smear on someone who may run against the interests of the liberal press and the democrats that they blindly support

Well said!!
Heard Huckaby yesterday and he said he did not release this schmuck! he did commute his sentence to 45 years which would have had him still in jail! When the parole board released him he broke parole and the DA did not get the paperwork right to put him back in jail.

Huckaby did say that if he had the file in his hands today that he would do the same thing! the "kid" had gotten a hundred or so year sentence for a robbery and people dont get that kind of sentence for murder! Now that is from memory but it is the jest of what he said.

Seems he has tried to do the right thing, but I still dont like people getting off easy .....unless its me!!   

[rex6666]

Hugabee probably should unpack his bags as the Whitehouse is not in his future. Here's a guy who gets 107 year sentence for volent crimes in Arkansas and Mike pardons him. His excuse was he commuted 1500 sentences each year and can't be expected to get them all right.

Huckabee comutted the sentence to 47years, he did not let him out.
I am sure if some of the people here were in office they would get it all
right. Huckabee has said on several occasions that he did it. Huckabee
could only look at the info. he got, 100 years is a long time for robbery
he comutted the sentence to 47years. State of Wa. let the guy out on bail
on a rape charge.