Mdl 97, 44 special

[doghawg]

 Paul

 I found the velocity difference in our HS6 loads interesting. Same powder, primer and barrel length but mine were 245 gr. RCBS swc's (actual 250 gr. from wheel weights +tin) sized with a .431" Star sizer (actual .4305") and lubed with soft lube (BAC) in Win cases. I've got the cheap Chrony without the averaging and ES features but this load clocks at about 1060.
 The little Lee 200 gr. RF cast a little softer (2 ww's to 1 pure plus tin) over 5.9 gr. of 231 (RCBS #9 rotor) with Fed 150 spark gives from 839 to 873 fps and shoots well and to the same POI as the HS6 load. A powder puff plinker and a more serious load without sight adj. makes a nice combo.
 I wasn't planning to buy any more guns for while but now the new Lipseys Ruger .44 spl Bisley is troubling me.   It would probably be a big let down compared to the 97 but still..........

 Edit to add; The HS6 chrony readins were from May of '09...less mystery than I thought. 

[paul105]

Randy,

That's the beauty of chonographs -- they will drive you abosolutely crazy.  When they work, the results don't match other's results.  When they don't (work), a bullet in the Liquid Display solves the problem (ben there done that).  Temperature, Power Lot,  individual gun tolerances, and false readings all contribute to the anomolies.

Paul

[paul105]

c.r.

Check your PMs -- sorry for the tardy response.

Paul

[c.r.]

Thanks Paul,

I ordered a copy of the issue with Pearce's article.  Great article and excellent load information.

I went ahead and ordered some of the Western Bullets' Kieth bullets.  loaded up some with 16, 16.5, and 17 grain of 2400.  Hopefully get to the range and run them across the chrony tomorrow.  I left these as they came from Western.

I have been shooting the leadhead bullets and they do lead, but as I push them faster, the leading trails off.  You mentioned you're getting the ~1220 area. I sized my bullets down to .429.  two different range trips (10-shot sample), avg 1154 fps and 1163 fps.  I'm just checking to see if my velocities are in line with what other folks are getting (of course the chronograph is a variable as well)  I'm a little surprised to see my velocities as low as they are relative to your data and what I read Taffin achieved.  However the Leadhead data is near what pearce achieved in his article using a 4 1/4" FA (however i'm still a bit slower)

I also ordered some Mt Baldy 300 gr. keiths last friday.  I would have expected they would have made it here already, but who knows with the weather.  I'll have to check on monday.  

Montana Bullets has some 250 gr LBTs in LFN that I want to try as well.

Completely different topic.........question for paul and doghawg.........do you happen to shoot some of the big guns, i.e. 475s and 500's?  I thought i came across something on singleactions.com.  If so, I'll p.m. you with a few questions.

~c.r.

[paul105]

Yes on the .475, no on the .500s.

Paul

[doghawg]

c.r.
 I shoot a .475 and .500 but both are BFR's. My biggest Mod 83's are .454's. I've been keeping an eye out for a .475 Mod 83...have bid on a couple.... If I found a 6 inch .475 with a .480 cylinder and a 3 lb. trigger I'd probably just use the .480. IMO opinion that would be close to a perfect hunting revolver.

[Boxhead]

Someone was asking about a narrower front sight. Dave Clements will make about whatever you desire, height, width, style, etc. This is one of his on my M97 45 Colt. It is narrower at .100" wide.

[HPBTmatch]

C.R.
  You asked the exact same question I've been pondering myself.  Like you, I recently purchaced a mdl 97 in 44spl 4 1/4bbl which is scheduled to arrive this Thursday.   I've also been looking at the larger loads 300grain bullets at +1k fps. Thanks to those who have already posted...You've given me some starting points to go on.  I'm usually more of a lurker by nature, but the wealth of info on this site from you guys and this post in particular made me sign up right away.  Hopefully in a week or two I'll have some worthwhile info to report back with.

Btw, Boxhead...I see that front sight has a couple extra marks on it.  What distances are they for?   And, how did you go about adding them?

Thanks again!
-Match

[c.r.]

Match,
congrats on your purchase

I loaded up some of the 300 gr. RCBS bullets from Mt. Baldy.  First thing i figured out was to look out for OAL.  with my brass trimmed to the minimum and crimping in the crimp grove, they will exceed the recomended max oal of 1.6" (i believe mine were 1.612) OAL. so crimp firmly.  I actually loaded only two at a time (kept one under the loading gate and pulled it to check for crimp jump). 

second.......sized from the Mt. Baldy they didn't want to chamber in MY revolver after a few shots had built up a little bit of crud in the chambers/throats area.  I figure this was God's way of telling me to quit while i was ahead.  I only fired two of the 300 grrounds in the FA, didn't run them across the chrony as I was more concerned with crimp jump at the time.  The load seems much more mild than even 16 gr of 2400 under a ~250 gr Keith.  So I shot the remaining 18 through my blackhawk.    no problems with crimp, however it was a heavier/different platform.  I'm going to run the 300's through my Lee .430 sizer, see how that works, and then if need be, use the .429" sizer.  spent the remainer of the range trip shooting a keith bullet over a mild load of universal.

again, when you get ready for the 300's, watch OAL and crimp jump.  ~250 grain Keith bullets leave plenty of room for any "crimp jump"

~c.r.

[HPBTmatch]

Thanks for the heads up, C.R.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but is it possible to trim the case back even farther to allow for a solid crimp on the 300 grainers? Might have to drop back on the powder charge a bit, but then again if there's no sign of overpressure maybe not... I'm going to look into this a bit more...

[trouthunterdj]

I have been reading this forum for awhile and just bought a previously owned 97 in 44 spc.

I look forward to loading and shooting this gun.

Thanks for all the good info.


ddj

[DJWright]

Very nice handguns. I've had two 83, both in .454/.45 Colt. Going to order a 97 in .44 spl. when I can afford one.
I am beginning to thing the .44 spl. is the pefectly balanced handgun cartridge.

[cadillo]

C.R.

 I was stationed in Fort Hood just before shipping over to Viet Nam. The Packers played the Cowboys in the '66 super bowl....the famous "ice bowl"....and won. About half of the barracks was composed of Texans...some of 'em were big ill-tempered dudes....so I had to keep my yankee celebrating down to a respectful level. 

 I use the RCBS Little Dandy powder measure and a #12 rotor drops 10.2 gr. of HS6. Under a 240 gr. Sierra HP that charge clocked 1050 fps and a little faster with the 250 gr. cast. Fed 150 standard primers gave vertical stringing but the hotter Win lp "std or mags" produced really outstanding groups. Makes me wonder how well the gun would shoot with optics.

Thanks for your military service.  Just so you know, the "Ice Bowl" was not the "Super Bowl".  It was the "NFL Championship Game".  In those days there were two leagues; the NFL and the AFL.  The early Super Bowls were between the NFL Champions and AFL Champions.  Both the Cowboys and Packers were NFL teams, and the Packers became NFL Champions when they beat the Cowboys in that game.  I watched the game too, and nearly cried when my Cowboys lost.  I was twelve years old. 

[doghawg]

cadillo

 Thanks for the clarification. I never was much of a football fan even though I grew up about 4 miles from the stadium. All I remember is how sweet the victory was...but as stated above I had to celebrate respectfully being one of the few yankees in that Texas barracks....