Author Topic: Misfires with CCI 200 Large Rifle Primers (Read 1776 times)

vincewarde · « **on:** August 24, 2009, 04:32:54 PM »

Went out to the range with my 45-70 barrel today. My new 450gr load worked well. Only one problem, a BIG ONE. These loads used Starline Brass and some new CCI Large Rifle Primers I was able to purchase. My lighter loads used WW Brass and Winchester Primers.

The CCI primed rounds had several failures to fire (at least 25%). Every time a re-strike fired the round. The Winchester primed rounds had zero misfires.

I checked the rifle, at least what I could check without a major tear down. The firing pin was not obstructed and appears to be functioning normally. I believe I did hold the trigger to the rear every time.

Does anyone know if CCI primers are just harder? Did I get a bad lot? Could the mainspring be weak enough to fire one brand and not a slightly harder brand?

I have a total of about 16,000 CCI primers - I hope they are not all this way!

Thanks!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:38:14 PM »

CCI primers are harder, check to see if a chambered round is flush with the chamber face of the barrel, the rim cut may have been cut too deep, I had that problem on the SS Ultra Hunter 45-70.

Tim

Yankee1 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:00:02 PM »

Hi All
In the past I got some primers from CCI that had cups that were .010" to short and caused frequent misfires. measure them with a micrometer and see if they are .010" too short.
Yankee1

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:07:01 PM »

CCI LR primers are made shorter than Rem and Win, Federal are even shorter. $:-\$

Tim

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:15:34 PM »

I think generally speaking when a second strike fires after a first didn't it means the first seated the primer you failed to when loading it.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:17:16 PM »

16,000 holy bedeheysus! no wonder i cant find any! Hell send me about 2.000 and I'll test em fer ya!

mechanic · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:07:45 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 24, 2009, 05:15:34 PM

I think generally speaking when a second strike fires after a first didn't it means the first seated the primer you failed to when loading it.

What Graybeard said........that was my problem.....Went back to my Lee auto prime instead of the press primer, no more problem.

Chas. · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2009, 02:01:12 AM »

vinceward, I was having exactly the same problem with those same primers. Switched to Federal - no problems; switched to Winchester - no problems. And it wasn't my seating technique. Now it's merely an academic exercise - I can't find any primers at all.

zoner · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2009, 02:15:49 AM »

i have also had ftf issues with cci primers...same load with winchester primers no problems

Etced · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2009, 02:36:43 AM »

Widener's has Wolf primers in stock.

http://wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|284|737

vincewarde · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:03:44 AM »

I checked the rim - sure enough, the brass does go just a tiny bit deep

As for primer technique, I use a Lee Auto Prime and the CCI primers were a bit hard to prime. I don't know if this was the problem, but what Greybeard said makes sense.

I guess when Winchester Primers are available again, I'll just use them. I know they will work. I just hope that my 30-06 and .243 barrels do not have the same problem.

Any further input would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2009, 11:32:41 AM »

I use CCI Primers exclusively when I can get them and Winchester as my preferred second choice. If ya seat them right they all go bang first time.

vincewarde · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:33:07 PM »

Yeah, it has been a while but I used to use CCI exclusively too. I switched to Winchester when out club had them cheaper than online.

Trust me, I did everything I could to seat them right. They were really tight. I would wonder about the brass, but I used my uniforming tool on the pockets before I loaded them, so the pockets should have been right. If they weren't fully seated, it wasn't for lack of trying and I checked depth visually and by touch. They all appeared to be fully seated.

I think I may be dealing with a combination of problems (rim cut a bit deep, hard seating primers, hard primers), any one of which would not have caused a misfire, but together.....

Is there an extra power spring I could use?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:36:35 PM »

Yup, Wolff Spring makes em, see 30-30 Misfires on page 2.

Tim

vincewarde · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2009, 02:23:36 PM »

Ultra Varmint from about 2005 - single or double coil spring? I have never had mine apart.

Thanks!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2009, 02:53:56 PM »

Single coil is standard, double coil can be made to work if you want to go to the trouble, see low profile hammer mods in the FAQs.

Tim

Siskiyou · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2009, 04:26:49 AM »

I have been using CCI large rifle primers for over forty years without a problem. Luckly I bought a few thousand in the past and they are keeping me in business now.

carbineman · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2009, 04:52:34 PM »

Quote from: vincewarde on August 25, 2009, 11:03:44 AM

I checked the rim - sure enough, the brass does go just a tiny bit deep

As for primer technique, I use a Lee Auto Prime and the CCI primers were a bit hard to prime. I don't know if this was the problem, but what Greybeard said makes sense.

I guess when Winchester Primers are available again, I'll just use them. I know they will work. I just hope that my 30-06 and .243 barrels do not have the same problem.

Any further input would be appreciated!

Thanks!

I have noticed that in my primer stash the CCI large rifle are a smidge larger in diameter than the Rem or Win that I have at present time. They were a bear to seat with a hand held primer tool. I am back to seating with the primer tubes on my rockchucker, which I personally prefer.
I now use the CCI to extend the useful life out of my brass when the primer pockets start getting a bit too large. (usually when my Rem's start gliding in without much resistance)

While the CCI's have posed no problems for me, I will purchase no more as I prefer Remington 9 1/2M and WLR's for rifle loading in that order. As of this time I have only been able to purchase Remington Large Rifle M's and some Federal small pistol along with some Remington small pistol. Purchased about 5K in the past months from Scheels.

c1skout · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2009, 05:56:22 PM »

Don't forget if you're using the Lee auto prime you are supposed to use only CCI large rifle or Winchester large rifle primers. Only 10 primers in the tray at a time with the Winchester, you can put in 100 of the CCIs. None of the others are deemed safe to use with this tool.

yooper77 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:04:52 PM »

Check primer seating depth, most likely the culprit.

yooper77

omcforever · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:36:00 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 25, 2009, 11:32:41 AM

I use CCI Primers exclusively when I can get them and Winchester as my preferred second choice. If ya seat them right they all go bang first time.

I second that....CCI

Sourdough · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2009, 09:14:16 AM »

I agree, never had a problem with CCI primers.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2009, 02:42:36 PM »

Quote from: c1skout on August 29, 2009, 05:56:22 PM

Don't forget if you're using the Lee auto prime you are supposed to use only CCI large rifle or Winchester large rifle primers. Only 10 primers in the tray at a time with the Winchester, you can put in 100 of the CCIs. None of the others are deemed safe to use with this tool.

FWIW - I have used CCI Small Rifle, CCI Small Pistol, Remington Bench Rest, Winchester Small Pistol and PMC Small Rifle primers with the Lee Autoprime, without problems. Thanks to this discussion I now know why the Remingtons were a tighter fit than the others, and I should hold off using them until the CCI and Winchesters are too easy to fit. From memory (a lot of my reloading stuff my stuff is in storage) according to the product instructions, Federal are the only forbidden primers, and the CCI and Winchester are recommended, which I took to mean any others are fine, as long as they are not Federal.

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2009, 04:33:39 PM »

I've probably primed around a quarter million CCI and Winchester primers using the Lee Auto Prime always putting 100 at a time in the tray unless I just happened to be needing some lesser number based on how many cases I had left to prime. I don't fear it.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2009, 06:14:17 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on September 04, 2009, 04:33:39 PM

I've probably primed around a quarter million CCI and Winchester primers using the Lee Auto Prime always putting 100 at a time in the tray unless I just happened to be needing some lesser number based on how many cases I had left to prime. I don't fear it.

Same here, not as many as GB but still 1000s with the auto prime and almost always with Winchesters at 100 at a time.
Never a problem.

Where did you hear/read that you couldn't put more than 10 of any brand of primers other than CCI in the pan at a time?
I don't recall ever reading or hearing that before.

LONGTOM