Author Topic: 12 GAFH  (Read 578 times)

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Offline tykempster

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12 GAFH
« on: May 02, 2009, 06:38:58 AM »
NFG where are you? :D

Can I get a barrel for my 45-120 in 12 gauge (rifled of course) and do a 12 GAFH?  What did you entire setup cost to start shooting?

I shot my 45-120 this morning at a big thick stump of some hard wood.  It didn't go through.  And I noticed it didn't seem to kick as hard as it used to.  I wasn't pleased.  :(

I am in need of more power!

Offline petemi

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Re: 12 GAFH
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2009, 07:00:36 AM »
Ty, you really should look into Navy surplus 20mm cannons. :D ;D :D ::)  Just kidding.

Pete
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Offline NFG

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Re: 12 GAFH
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2009, 07:40:26 AM »
I'm here...been working on projects and wanna-be projects.

NO...The 12GaFH is based on the USH/10ga receiver.  The standard 12ga barrel is WAY TO THIN to do the 12GaFH.  Don't even think about it.  Hiccup ONCE and you're on your way to where you don't want to go.  The standard 12ga rifled barrel, I have one each for Rem and Mossy, will handle ANY 12ga FACTORY slug, and reloded ANY slug as long as you use the same load for the same projectile weight, doesn't matter if it is solid or pellets...but the 12GaFH operates at over TWICE that pressure.

The cheapest and quickest way it is to buy a SB2960 USH then sent the barrel to RobGunBuilder at Accurate Reloading - Big Bore - 12GaFH thread will get you to him.  Just PM him to get set up.  OR if you have a 10 ga receiver you can sent it to NEF and have the 12ga USH rifled barrel installed, THEN send it to Rob to have the chamber cut to 3.85".

FIRST go to the Big Bore link and read ALL 57 pages of the thread.  I'm 'guessing you've read a few already, but go back to the first page and see how it was developed...most of the problems are explained which will give you some knowledge of the "wildcatting process". That should give you enough information to decide...THIS CONVERSION ISN'T A SIMPLE BARREL SWAP.  So far I have over $1000 sunk into this money pit, and still haven't finished acquiring ALL the required bits and pieces.

This is a relatively easy, but DANGEROUS, if you get magnumitis or don't have the rest of the tools to play with, i.e., software programs like Load from a Disk or Quick load, a fair amount of wildcatting background, and don't follow, CLOSELY, the "BigBoys" already copious amounts of information and how they approached this in bitsy steps. 

You DON'T want to push this one.  The NEF receiver has a pressure limit.  The size and weight of the slugs being tossed around at the velocities they're using puts the recoil WAY THE HE** over what the human body can stand.  You're really looking at detached retina's, broken and twisted shoulders and upper body and BRAIN CONCUSSION.  We're talking over 200 ftlbs without a brake and half that WITH a brake. 

I don't want to push, but this isn't something to do so you can pec*er wave...you might get messed up bad enought to LOOSE the practical use of it.

Your young and skinny, don't toss "dumas" in the mix...no diss intended.

The bottom line is...I can reload 3" and/or 3.5" plastic shotshells for use in the Rem and Mossy standard rifled OR smoothbore..OR NEF...using the same slug/shot weight, powder, primers AND data from the Lyman or ANY shotshell reloading manual and get ALMOST the same performance as I can get with my 12GaFH.  I can also buy 3.5" turned brass cases at 10 BUCKS A POP, and use them instead of the plastice ones, get the same performance at the 10 dollar plus component cost per round...kinda dumb isn't it??? 

I also get ALL the recoil I want...I have a couple of 3" loads right out of the Lyman manual AND a couple I worked up, WITHIN THE SAME PRESSURE RANGE AS FACTORY LOADED 12 GA SLUGS, STIFF MAGNUM LEVEL ONES TO BE SURE, that produce almost 100 ftlbs of recoil with a 750 gr slug, that's not quite 1 1/2 oz shot load, with a 7.5 lb Mossy shotgun.  I can't hold on to it the recoil is SO FAST and so hard, plus the shape and slickness of the pistol grip.  Nothing at all like shooting an equal load in a bolt gun, or the 45-120.  This is the old big bullet/low velocity vs small bullet/hi velocity argument gussied up in a Madonna shocker video doo. LOL

In reality...the 12GaFH is a specialty item, developed for the BIGBOYS to play with and as such is limited more to experiment than real world application.  Although if it really takes off, as it looks like it might...a double rifle is now being developed by Rob...it would make one HE**OF AN AFRICAN/DGR/BIG GAME SHOOTER. ::) :o ;D.  There are quite a few already out there and one even being tried in Africa on big game...Lots of people are waiting for those results. ;D

You might also readup on James Gates "Dixie slugs"...I see ol' Graybeard doesn't seem to like posting URL to other forums...so you will have to dig it out. ;D

I wouldn't recomment spending that amount of money just for a bragging shooter...there are a ton of very nice big bore bolt guns that will produce the same or more bang for a lot less bucks.

An example, 6 modified 50BMG cases with base rings, and one reloading ring, 20 turned brass 1085 gr slugs for use with Fed 209 primers, shipping/handling...$125.00.  Sizing die alone $125.00...I plan to make my own, or at least try first. If you want to use the 50BMG case and 50BMG primers you need a special seater and the primers alone are $175.00/100.  You can check that out yourself, all that information is on the AR forum and look at the price of slugs also...only a few are making them now...you can cast your own but the mould is in the $250.00 range.  Not a toy for those with a thin pocket book. ::) :-\ :o

I'm not trying to talk you into or out of ANYTHING, just postulating some points. 

This shooter started developed, I think basically, because a few wanted the BIGGEST shoulder fired caliber that would produce the HIGHEST amount of energy, using relatively available components.  There is also an 8ga that Ed Hubel did...uses Rem 8ga industrial shells for busting up Kilns. Jeezzzzz.

Rip, Ed, Rob on AR are the ones to talk too...they had the most developmental input on the 12GaFH.

Petemi...your not too far away from the truth...I've head/read/??? some testing data using 20mm and 30mm cases necked down, depleted Uran*** slugs at high velocity for use against armor.  I have a couple of stories I could tell, but if I told them I would have to eliminate very one who read them and the "otherboys" would come to visit me. Hahahahahahahah  Naw...just kidding.

Enjoy your toys.


Offline tykempster

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Re: 12 GAFH
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2009, 08:43:05 AM »
What pressure and speed can I go to if I just reamed the USH to 3.5" and used "real" cases?  Where can I get good quality cases, and "real" bullets, not crappy slugs.  The AR thread is so long I'm not sure I could find it but I remember reading about a 3.5" version and cases.

I could load bullets way out there if I reamed the USH and have a pretty good case capacity to throw lead.  Then the problem of having to use a dang scope might arise.

Offline NFG

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Re: 12 GAFH
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2009, 12:45:35 PM »
Ty...your coming at this from the WRONG direction, or not reading/understanding what I just said. 

If you're to tired/lazy/in a hurry to get hurt/etc., to dig through that link and too short sighted to understand my warning, you're DANGEROUS and I'm not about to give you any more rope.  You've got me WAY TOO spooky to answer your questions. 

You got magnumitis up the gazooch, and I won't have anything to do with adding to it.

I should say sorry, but I'm definitely not and you need to re-evaluate how you're doing things.

Be safe????

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 12 GAFH
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2009, 09:04:21 PM »
Ed's 12ga FH project is posted in the Big Bore forum here, he just updated it.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,79991.msg494116.html#msg494116
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Offline tykempster

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Re: 12 GAFH
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2009, 05:55:01 AM »
Maybe I'm missing something.  All I did was ask what I could do with a 3.5" slug loaded to higher than standard pressures but still safe obviously.  I was hoping to use more standard supplies in order to make it more economical.

Not sure what I did to make you freak out, but rereading my post I don't see anything that suggests "magnumitis up the gazooch". 

Nevermind on helping me...I'll ask on AR where it's a bit more friendly. :-\