Author Topic: Ebay Parrot cannon kt and questions (Read 4780 times)

rays89 · « **on:** September 19, 2008, 07:41:02 PM »

Normally I patranize sponsore of Greybeards, But on E-bay I found a deal I couln't pass up. It is a parrot cannon kit. That listed for $449, But I gave an offer of $400 which wa accepted. The demensions are 16 inch barrel with a 3/4 inch bore. Wheels are 16 inches in diameter and are dished. overall length is 29 inches, Long. The only issues are the trunion caps are not proper.. And it appears to be missing some hardware especially on the trail of the carraige. The goal on this is to make it as authentic as possible. Which also means painting the carraige and the hardware. The Irishamn is supposed to cut me a brass Parrot barrel that one I will keep the wood natural and add brass fittings. But this one I want to make authentic. I am wondering if anyone can post some pics of parrot guns that show some detail. As for the $400 hundred dollar price I dont think that is to bad because on "cannon manic" (I changed the name because alot of people got ripped off by this vendor). they had a smaller napolien for for over $600 . But it was more detailed.
Ray

cannonmn · « **Reply #1 on:** September 19, 2008, 08:52:00 PM »

Here are some pix of original Parrott barrels:

http://www.cwartillery.org/ve/parrott.html

Victor3 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2008, 02:27:57 AM »

I had that auction on my watch list. It did look like a good deal.

I hope you'll post some info on the kit once you have it in hand. I see that he has a completed cannon based on this kit up for auction, and maybe he will offer some more kits in the future.

rays89 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2008, 02:28:36 PM »

Well I am still waiting on this kit. And decided I am going to make some major changes to it. When the time comes I will show the results. Cannonmn thanks for the link. I have a picture here of a cannon from Morristown New Jersey which has a very rich history on the Revolutionary war. I really don't think the barrel on this cannon actually is authentic to that era. Hmm

cannonmn · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2008, 03:04:31 PM »

The cannon barrel on the brown carriage appears to be painted gold. It isn't any cannon shape I'm familiar with. Repro?.

rays89 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2008, 04:34:39 AM »

The cannon doesn't have any markings on it. And it is painted to look like bronze which just doesn't cut it. Nothing looks as fine as a true Bronze or brasss cannon. This is starting to give me ideas on what to do with this Parrot gun. When I get it. Hmm

GGaskill · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2008, 08:03:02 AM »

And it is painted to look like bronze ...

Parrotts were iron and painted black. A simple fix is to paint it black.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2008, 09:12:42 AM »

Quote from: cannonmn on September 23, 2008, 03:04:31 PM

The cannon barrel on the brown carriage appears to be painted gold. It isn't any cannon shape I'm familiar with. Repro?.

I wonder if it is a thin wall iron casting like I have seen in some parks.

GGaskill · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2008, 01:33:01 PM »

The only issues are the trunion caps are not proper.

And the barrel is not shaped like a Parrott.

rays89 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2008, 05:22:56 PM »

This cannon is supposed to represent a Revolutionary war cannon not a parrot gun Sorry thread is getting sidetracked. I did get the kit today but I did not have achance to check it out yet. I will post more later.

rays89 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 27, 2008, 07:08:22 PM »

I know I am still sidetracked ont his post. But I beleive the barrel is a 6 pounder smoothbore M1841 which is built several years after the revolutionary war. So It doesn't fit the revolutanry war vintage.

rays89 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 27, 2008, 07:13:31 PM »

Yes I know the Parrot gun was made of iron it is because rifleing wore out rapidly in bronze while iron will keep the rifleing. I have taken pictures of the kit. And posted it on photobucket and I will give a critque and the modifications I plan to do with it. But presently it is 1:13 am and it is time to close up shop.

rays89 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2008, 12:24:02 PM »

Well I have received the kit. What is noce the wheels are dished.This is a kit and for $00 is was a good price. The barrel is nice acept there are spot welding marks by the trunions. Here are some pics of the kit but I do like that here are some pictures plus I did roughly put it together

Sure that Parrot gun never had a brass barrel but they were always painted like this

I do like the natural wood finish and brass barrels so I might do some radical changes. I have worked with a few of the fine sponsors from this board but I do know who I need to contact who specializes in this kind of work. And I know the finished product even though not authentic is definly going to be some serious eyecandy
Ray

rays89 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 14, 2008, 03:36:41 PM »

I figure I would show the progress of what I have done so far. I would say I am less than 50% complete on this project. The only complaint I have, Is the spokes by the hub have to much glue not allowing the stain to soak through Ugh. Hmm a stained Parrot gun. Doesn't look to scale to me. And hey this Maker is not a sponsor of Greybeard!!!! Well this is going to be an unusual parrot gun and yes a sponsor of Greybeard outdoors is giving me a hand on this project. More to follow.
Ray

intoodeep · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2008, 03:51:43 PM »

rays89,

It looks as if the wheels are on backwards (atleast the right one, when looking at the photo). They appear to "dish" outward instead of inward. I know that you are still in the building process but you may want to keep that in mind when you do the final assembly.

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2008, 04:38:04 PM »

Ray, it's not necessary to stain before painting, although a good undercoat wouldn't hurt.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2008, 02:17:33 AM »

I think I can see what you mean about the glue on the spokes. I would scrape and pick where necessary with an exacto knife. Easy to hold and work with. Better than a real scraping tool. Then to finish it, you can rip a 1/2" strip of emory off a sheet the long way and work it like a shoe shine rag. Kapish? I buy emory ribbon in big rolls but sheets will work fine. So you take a little time but you get what you really want and down the road you won't be saying to yourself, "cuduh shuduh woulduh".

dan610324 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2008, 05:15:07 AM »

yeah the exacto is an wounderful knife , but I found something much better .
its surgical scalpels , they are wounderful to use and have many different shapes on the blades .

but when I was searching for those things here in sweden I found out that they are expensive to buy from artist shops , they cost from $ 2,75 and up . so I decide to search for the manufacturer .
I found an manufacturer in china , its an natural place for me to search as Im doing some small imports now when Im retired .

there I could buy them for less then 14 cents including shipping , I had them at my front door including taxes and customs fee at approximately 21 cents each .
ok then I bought 5 000 pcs

there is lots of shapes of the blades to choose from , but I only ordered 4 different blades .
I sold lots of this sets already

rays89 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2008, 01:12:14 PM »

The wheel looks backward because of the picture. I am going to try the exacto knife bit to scrape the glue. But first I still have wipe the stain off I put to much oops. DD my good ole friend yes there is no need to stain before painting. But as usual I am going to be a little different on this one. I am not going to paint it. Yes I know thats a "Crime" While the original one pictured on top of the post is just stained. I have plans on making this one look even more different. I am just waiting for some more parts. From one of our sponsors. More to come soon.
Ray

dan610324 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2008, 01:33:15 PM »

ray pm sent
please reply asap

Double D · « **Reply #20 on:** October 15, 2008, 02:45:00 PM »

Actually the norm here is bare wood, a painted carrige woud be unusual.

rays89 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 15, 2008, 03:25:34 PM »

Dan PM replied. DD I am wondering you are saying bare wood is the norm. Would this include original Civil war artillery? If so wouldn't the wood be more suspeptable to rot? We all know that these artillery peices weren't always kept in the most ideal places.

Double D · « **Reply #22 on:** October 15, 2008, 04:05:40 PM »

Barewood vs paint...by bare wood I mean wood that is covered with some clear coat--shellac, varnish, verathane, linseed oil..not rawwood--no finish.

Civil War pieces were painted with a few exceptions to protect the wood. Linseed oil was the other finish used.

The folks here on this board tend to like barewood to show the fine figure of the wood. The propensity for folks here is barewood. I will admit that some of these guns are absolutely beautiful. It would almost criminal to cover some of this wood. If that pleases folks then they should do that.

If folks here look at their guns they will see most, if not all are barewood. Those that have painted carriages are few and far between.

But the fact is the originals were painted. I think that little line of carriages you make for Brooks is nice. Add to the barewoods you make, a few, a series of painted, red, yellow, grey blue and black. Do just one of each and see if you don't think they look nice. By the way, after the first of the year I intend to buy one of Brooks guns and the carriage I build will be red.

rays89 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2008, 05:32:54 PM »

DD I actually have a cannon that is bare wood. It was given to an exgirlfriend's child as a birthday present. It was the first cannon I made.

I have two other barrels on the way One from Dominick and the Irishman has the other. On those projects they are going to be painted. as a matter of fact In one of the previous pictures in this thread the one with the split carraige is a future project. The wood I am probably going to use is pine. Because it is cheap, easy to workwith and does not look good stained in my opinion. So I am going to paint them to look scale.
Ray

Tropico · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2008, 07:20:07 PM »

I must admit a weakness for shellac'd, varnished, & verathaned woods. I am guilty of this too be sure. However in my defense I love a Red Carriage ., and a Black carriage as well. Most of the sub scale guns that I have are clear coated , however my large Hern Cannons will be riding on Red carriages and the boat carriages may be Red ., But more than likely they will be Black.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #25 on:** October 16, 2008, 03:50:45 AM »

Years ago, I did alot of research when it became time to treat the wood of my carriage. That is when I read that medieval cannon were treated with what we call kerosene and that was an acceptable practice long after for raw wood. I know that most if not all today, prescribe linseed oil when protecting raw wood without the use of hard shell finish products. I always used linseed on my gunstocks and hand rubbed it in with the heel of my hand until the friction heated the action and the wood would glow down deep. My father had me doing it to the furniture he reproduced from the collection in the Early American Wing of the Metropolitan Museum of Art when I was in penal survitude for him at the age of 12.

Richard "Inmate 21996"

Cannoneer · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2008, 07:01:50 AM »

Rays89,

Before you mentioned the excess dried glue on the wheels I was curious as to why the maker/seller had painted the naves and bottoms of the spokes black on the wheels of the carriage he posted photos of on eBay. I have also had a few problems with glue penetrating the wood I was working on and then preventing the wood from excepting the stain I tried to apply. I'm now working on a full bed naval carriage in mahogany that is almost completed and I used liquid hide glue on it. When I clamped the pieces together I used a cloth and very hot water to get all the overflow glue off the wood, but I evidently missed a very small section on the bottom of the bed. Well, I sanded the bottom of this carriage (and I mean sanded, there was no glue left on the surface of the wood) and this small section would still not accept the stain. This same problem has also happened to me when using epoxy as the adhesive on wood (with epoxy I use a cloth and acetone to remove any excess glue). In my experience with at least some types of glue, once the glue has penetrated the wood and dried, ( especially a porous wood like mahogony or plain sawn white oak) scraping or sanding hasn't worked to get the grain to accept the stain. I thought that with the hide glue maybe a steamer with suction might get the glue out of the grain but I don't have one so I couldn't try this. If anyone with experience in woodworking has a cure for this malady I'd love to learn about it.

rays89 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 16, 2008, 11:39:08 AM »

Boom I think we are on the same page. I was thinking of painting the spokes black. It might even add some contrast to the plans I have for this cannon
Ray

dan610324 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2008, 11:56:13 AM »

my only advice in this matter is to thin the glue you use with an suitable liquid and use very small amounts of glue , never put it on whole the surface to be glued .
if you have an 1 ince surface that should be glued , save approximately 1/4 on all sides .
when you put it in pressure you probably have glue on all the surface anyway .
take the same liquid as you use to thin the glue and whipe away any glue comming out , when you whiped it clean take an new rag and repeat it several times again .

lendi · « **Reply #29 on:** October 16, 2008, 03:43:01 PM »

on glue and finishes,
I use mostly Titebond #3 as it is water proof and water resistant. Hide glue is not water resistant enough to be used for exterior work. When gluing up parts you need to have a good fit first. Glue is not a filler. I put on enough to coat each surface and let it set up so that when it squeezes out it won't adhere to the surface. You can wipe off excess with a damp(water) rag or let it set up for a while and clean up with a chisel. finish surfacing with a planner or sanding should make the glue line difficult to see. As to finishing wood for exterior use I use a combination of boiled linseed oil. gum turps. pine tar and japan drier. Multiple thin coats. A coat or two of paste wax when you bring the gun into the house to admire will improve it's looks. Hope that these hints help you out.
Len
DICW