Author Topic: What bolt action 17 HMR do you like most? (Read 6331 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #30 on:** March 14, 2008, 04:59:34 PM »

Well maybe tomorrow.

It is getting kind of late. Dale

quickdtoo · « **Reply #31 on:** March 14, 2008, 05:03:17 PM »

Thanks, I don't think I'll make it tonight.

Tim

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #32 on:** March 14, 2008, 05:36:28 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on March 14, 2008, 05:03:17 PM

Thanks, I don't think I'll make it tonight.

Tim

Tim all you have to do is post a bunch of

all over the place and you will be there.

Dale

Keith L · « **Reply #33 on:** March 14, 2008, 10:34:31 PM »

I have three 17 HMRs: A G2 Contender Carbine barrel, a Super 14 Contender barrel, and a Savage Bolt gun (heavy stainless/synthetic). All three are amazing shooters. If you watch the wind you can make little tiny holes in yoiur target at long range. My Savage was pre-Accutrigger and I put a Rifle Basix trigger in it. It shot the 17 grain bullets well, but the larger ones opened up the 100 yard groups to a couple of inches. The hollowpoints didn't like to feed correctly. My son now is using that one, and I mainly use the Contender Carbine. It is boring how accurate it is. I will be exploding crows soon with it.

Were I buying one today I would either get one of the Marlins, or most likely the Savage with the Accutrigger. I handled one a few weeks ago at a gun show and it almost came home with me.

I don't choose to use them on groundhog sized game, but as Tim said, with head shots they do work well. And if you mind the wind head shots are possible at fair ranges.

Ladobe · « **Reply #34 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:29:57 AM »

You can probably count on getting some crawlers on ground hogs with a 17HMR. But lets face fact... you also get crawlers with 17 centerfires, 22 centerfires and even much larger centerfires on GH's, prairie dogs and smaller rat diggers as well at any range. While it may be true that a poor shot can sometimes be somewhat made up for by shooting bigger bullets faster, it still doesn't excuse a poor shot.

I've never hunted our western rock chucks with a 17HMR, the closest rat we have to an eastern ground hog (and still not as heavy as they can get). In the high mountain alpine environs where most RC's are hunted here, ranges are usually just too far for the 17HMR and the winds too stout (and often also too stout for a 17 or 22 centerfire). But on a calm day within range a 17HMR would work on them just fine I think. I've killed badger with my Hummers, and IMO they are a bunch tougher to kill than any of the the rat diggers (including GH's). Shot placement and retained energy (so range) has more to do with what a 17HMR will or will not do than the size of the animal (within reason).

At Digger Wars in 2003 we took thousands of Belding ground squirrels with 17HMR's from 150 to the longest at 359 yards. Beldings are very small when compared to a ground hog for sure - takes two of them just to equal a prairie dog. At the longer ranges they just flopped over dead (no splatter, no aerials), but one I took with my Bullberry carbine at a lasered 309 yards standing broadside through the shoulders was nearly blown in half with a CCI 17 grain TNT. The little pill found bone on contact obviously (I'd post a picture, but while not messy there is gore). Pretty good retained energy at a range most thought was well beyond the capabilities of the 17HMR even for small diggers.

Would I shoot at GH's at 300 yards with a 17HMR? No way. I'd start at the closest ranges possible and only take shoots I have confidence in my ability on, work my way out until my ammo of choice will not take them reliably and set my maximum range back where it will.

Graybeard · « **Reply #35 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:44:56 AM »

My first .17 HMR rifle was a Ruger. Like most Ruger guns it disappointed me early and late both. The stock fore end feels kinda like holding a 2x4 it is so squared off rather than properly rounded like most rifle fore ends are. This seems to be a common trait with Ruger's rifles as most I've owned shared it. Then I soped it and began shooting. I had a variety of ammo for it but nothing I fed it would shoot under an inch at 100 yards and only one really shot under 1.5" at 100. That is totally useless accuracy as far as I was concerned based on my expected use of it so it was traded off.

Next up I got a Marlin that looked like the one in Ladobe's photo. I don't recall the specific model of it but that looks much like it and it had the laminated stock on it. That one was made incorrectly by the factory and yeah I could have and maybe should have sent it back but I had already decided I really didn't care for it anyway. Even using Burris Signature rings I was not able to get it sighted in to hit the target at 25 yards much less at 100 yards. I had to use the plus/minus 20 inserts in both rings set opposite to move it the absolute maximum the offset inserts allowed to even get it to hit the target sheet but it couldn't be sighted to hit the actual target dot. Yeah that as using all the scope adjustment as well. Bye bye Marlin.

Next up was a Savage that also had a grey laminated stock and it took required the Burris rings with offset to get sighted in but did at least sight in. The stock on it just felt way to fat for my taste and accuracy was worse than the Ruger as had been the Marlin. Bye Bye Savage I knew better than to spend my money on one to begin with.

At this point I was really wondering if anyone had ever made a rifle so chambered that would actually shoot accurately.

Next up I picked up a CZ452 I think the model number was. It was a nice looking rifle with trim lines and a nice trigger. I never got around to shooting it tho before selling it and when I asked the guy who bought it from me much later he said he did the same thing as me. So I still don't know how it would have shot. Shame really as it seemed a nice little rifle and of the four I've owned I'd definitely recommend it even tho I never shot it.

But if I were to buy another and I likely will some day I'd probably buy an Anchutz cuz I've never heard of one of them that wasn't accurate yet.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #36 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:46:18 AM »

I think the 17 HMR would be a good round for Groundhogs out to about 175 to 200 yards. Past that I would grab the 243. Dale

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #37 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:49:58 AM »

Also did I tell you that the little guys are starting to wake up around here. Yesterday on my way to the store I nearly hit one with the van. It put a big smile

on my face because it won't be long now that I will be out and about working at putting them back to sleep. Dale

Graybeard · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2008, 11:01:00 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on March 15, 2008, 09:46:18 AM

I think the 17 HMR would be a good round for Groundhogs out to about 175 to 200 yards. Past that I would grab the 243. Dale

I don't think it has the power to do them in that far out Dale. If you get one accurate enough to make head shots maybe but it's lacking in power for ground hog body shots that far away. Those little critters Ladobe is speaking of are much smaller and easier to kill (if you hit them) than ground hogs.

My friend Barry who lives up there in PA not so very far from you some times uses his TC .17 AI Bee to shoot them and as I seem to recall he's not too impressed with the way it does them in. It's a LOT more powerful than the little HMR.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2008, 11:05:01 AM »

HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!! I wonder what kind of range I could expect 17 HMR to do the job right? Do you think 150 yards and less? Dale

Graybeard · « **Reply #40 on:** March 15, 2008, 11:59:10 AM »

With my checkered history with this round I have not yet shot anything live with it so understand I have very limited knowledge of it to base this on but I'd not expect it to work very effectively on ground hogs at 150 with body shots. Sure it should kill them especially if you put it in the heart/lung area or especially in the brain. I'd expect them to make it back to their holes more often than not with body hits however.

My friend Barry takes it really hard when one makes it back to the hole alive. He's a real unhappy camper over such events. He kills a lot of them annually far more really than my life time total since I have no where down here in Bama to hunt them. He has complained a lot about the results he gets with his .204 Ruger on body shots with the 32 grain bullets. The 40s seem more effective on body hits based on his reports to me. But his 6 TCU which I talked him into buy is in his words far more effective and always seems to put them down immediately with any hit.

I've used a shotgun a couple times on them here as that's what I had with me when they showed up and also the .44 magnum and I can report to you that the .44 Magnum with .240 JHPs is immediately fatal and very devastating on them. I'd love to have access to land with them to hunt down here but never have and likely never will so it is rare that I see one other than at road side so my chance encounters where I can shoot them are few and far between.

I'd not really consider any rimfire a much over 100 yard proposition tho based on killing many other similar sized critters. I'd much rather use the .22 Magnum with 40 grain JHPs were I going to use a rimfire on ground hogs. Now out west where the varmints are smaller the little .17 HMR should do nicely as is Ladobe's experience with it. But picket pins and prairie dogs are not the same kinda critter as ground hogs and don't take nearly as much killing to get the job done. I really would recommend sticking to centerfire rounds for them. If you want a 175 to 200 yard round for them try the .22 Hornet or the .221 Fireball or maybe even the new one from Remington that puts the .171" bullets in the Fireball case. It's been around for years as the .17 Mach IV and seems to have a good reputation.

NONYA · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2008, 02:02:47 PM »

If you can hit them the 17 is going to kill em,we are talking about varmints here,not big game where the ethics police can rule on what is or is not an ethical caliber choice.

Keith L · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2008, 02:15:50 PM »

I am with Bill's friend. I hate to see them crawl into the hole and die. I want to kill them cleanly. The way I see it there are all kinds of guns for all kinds of shooting. We are at least 150 yards from the rock pile where we chuck hunt, and I use a centerfire to get the job done.

Having said that I enjoy my HMRs for all kinds of other things. I will always have at least one, but not for anything larger than a Pdog.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #43 on:** March 15, 2008, 02:28:01 PM »

I have to say I felt pretty bad twice last year. First off I killed at least 60 Groundhogs last summer. Well anyways I shot one with a 204 at about 200 yards and he crawled to his hole. I really did feel terrible. The second time I made a bad hit at about 300 yards with my 243 and I saw him crawling. It took a second shot while he was crawling to finish him off. Dale

NONYA · « **Reply #44 on:** March 15, 2008, 02:43:17 PM »

If you feel so bad about these rodents why shoot them?You know very well each one could crawl down his hole with his guts blown out and die a slow miserable death,its a possibility every time you pull the trigger ya know.I might feel bad about making a poor shot but if you truly "felt" for these animals you wouldnt be out trying to kill them for the fun of it.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #45 on:** March 15, 2008, 02:49:01 PM »

Quote from: NONYA on March 15, 2008, 02:43:17 PM

If you feel so bad about these rodents why shoot them?You know very well each one could crawl down his hole with his guts blown out and die a slow miserable death,its a possibility every time you pull the trigger ya know.I might feel bad about making a poor shot but if you truly "felt" for these animals you wouldnt be out trying to kill them for the fun of it.

Well all I can say to that is for the most part I have clean quick kills. When I don't I feel bad but like you said it still is fun!!!!!!!!!!! Dale

oldandslow · « **Reply #46 on:** March 15, 2008, 05:57:55 PM »

I have owned a Marlin 917VS for a couple of years now. It is very accurate. The trigger was very heavy but some work fixed that. I noticed one at Academy Sports today for $329 while I was buying some 9mm ammo. There are no groundhogs here but the round is sure death on prairie dogs and jackrabbits out to 150 or so yards. I haven't tried any longer shots. Have you though of handloading for your .243? Should be around the cost of 17HMR. Of course that takes the fun out of a new rifle.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #47 on:** March 16, 2008, 05:53:19 AM »

I don't want to wane from the subject of the 17hmr, but oldandslow has a point. I load either the 70 or 80 grain Nosler BT's with H-414 and that will kill groundhog or coyote cleanly from 0 to 400 yards with one shot. Of course, the "downside" is the report is much louder than the 17hmr. But groundhogs have never complained.

Dave

Ladobe · « **Reply #48 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:55:49 AM »

Sounds like the 17 Rimfire Gods were just out to get you GB. They didn't want you to have a 17HMR.

I have a heck of a lot of friends who bought 17HMR's as soon as they came out (dozens), and like me most of them have 2 or 3 or more of them now (I have 3 and 3 17M2's). My first was the Bullberry carbine, but most bought Savage or Marlin for their first as the first available and due to price. But they also ended up with Rugers, CZ's, Annie's, Coopers and custom TC's. While the triggers on the cheaper models left a lot to be desired, all of them shot very well right out of the box and I don't remember anyone having trouble mounting and sighting in their scope on them.

Trigger was the worst on the early Savages by far, better on the Marlin's and it could be helped along a bunch with a spring change or made perfect with a RB trigger. The CZ had a pretty good trigger right out of the box, the Annie's and Coopers excellent triggers. Also easy to have an excellent trigger on a TC. Most who bought the early Rugers didn't like them for various reasons and traded them off.

Precision wise, all of them were MOA or better with the right driver yanking the trigger. Even the cheap Savage once you did something with the trigger. Some were further improved by floating barrels and bedding.

I've still never shot against a Hummer than can match the precision of my Bullberry prototype carbine after owning it just over 7 years and many thousands of rounds fired in it, including a few Annies and a Cooper. But then it has a special tight chamber cut for the 17 grain pills that the factory guns don't have. I only shoot the Hornady V-Max and CCI TNT's in it.

hogman · « **Reply #49 on:** April 06, 2008, 06:59:20 AM »

I have a 77/17 ruger I love it. accuracy, my son and I enjoy shooting spent .17hmr brass at up to 125 yards (I stop at 100 , old eyes give out past that) I have yet to see him miss one with it (hundreds of rounds) thats pretty accurate. we have killed many yotes up to about 185 yards how can you complain about that

hogman · « **Reply #50 on:** April 06, 2008, 07:01:53 AM »

OH yeah I do want a .17 fireball rem 700 4000 fps how could that not be fun

Davemuzz · « **Reply #51 on:** April 06, 2008, 04:21:53 PM »

I think if I were to get a 17 centerfire, it would be the 17 Remington. Top velocity of the 17 Rem is listed at 4300fps. That's 300fps faster than the fireball. You can load "down" the 17 Rem to Fireball velocities, but you can't do the reverse.

Dave

thesteeleboy · « **Reply #52 on:** April 06, 2008, 07:13:46 PM »

I shoot a CZ452 and am real pleased with it. The reason I prefer a 17 is I hunt red fox in an area inhabited with people and the 17 is a lot quieter than the center fire rifles. I have been asked to hunt these fox but don't need to advertise it to the residents when I'm there. My CZ is a great gun for fox because it doesn't tear a big hole in them if you punch them through the ribs.

Doc T · « **Reply #53 on:** April 08, 2008, 06:12:07 AM »

I have a Contender Carbine and a converted Ruger 10/22 magnum. It has a custom 17HMR barrel made by Jarvis. On a good day the semi-auto will shoot 1/4" groups at 100yds. The Contender is almost as accurate.
We don't have groundhogs or prairie dogs in Louisiana. We do have lots of other varmints, though. The HMR will do a number on them. It will flip a BIG turtle (hubcap size!) at 150 yds.

The 17 rimfires are some of the best things to come along in the shooting world. The HM2 is the best small game (squirrel/rabbit) hunting round ever. The HMR is too much for small game, but it the most fun to shoot.

Doc T

coyotejoe · « **Reply #54 on:** April 12, 2008, 07:40:19 AM »

I love my CZ full stock, mainly because it is a thing of beauty, a joy to handle and very accurate. My first .17 HMR was a Marlin and I was a bit disappointed in it's accuracy but every rifle is an individual thing so I really can't say every CZ is more accurate than every Marlin. I also have a CZ trainer in .22LR and it is the most accurate .22 I've ever owned and I have owned a bunch of .22s. And yes, they are listing the CZ trainer in .17 HMR. I'd like to get one, the inexpensive "trainer", in .22 WMR but for some reason that isn't available.

Chris Potts · « **Reply #55 on:** April 12, 2008, 05:56:27 PM »

I have a 453 in 22lr. If I were to get a 17 hmr I wouldn't consider buying many other rifles. They are really great rifles for the money. The only difference between the 453 and the is that the 453 has a single set trigger.

Chris

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 02, 2008, 10:19:49 AM »

i am weighing in on this kinda late. I bought a stainless steal 77/17 with the laminated stocks. I really did not give it a lot of chance and decide that I could do better. I bought a Volquartsen SS hand lapped barrel for it and put on a different trigger. Now I have a real shooter. It stays under 1/2" at 100 yards all day long as long as the wind is not too much. I have gotten 1 hole groups with it at 50 yards with two different ammos (I know they are all made by CCI). I am very happy with it. I do most of my GH shooting with a 22 center fire (I have several). One day while out shooting ground squirrels with it, I ran across a small 1/2 grown Ground Hog at 75 yards. It was a bang flop. No exit hole, but there was just a little lung sticking out the entrance hole. I think with a well placed bullet they are capable out to 100 yards for Ground hogs. I do not like to see them crawl off either, that is why I use a 22 center fires. I have never had one crawl off, but I do not shoot a bazillon each year either and most of my shots are within 150 yards, I just do not get many opportunities beyond that range, most have been shot within 75 yards. I know the Rugers do not have the best reputation as far as accuracy is concerned so i probably did not give it much of a chance before i modified it, but sure shoots good now.

just bill · « **Reply #57 on:** May 03, 2008, 05:17:39 AM »

Hi Dale,

I have owned a Savage in HMR in the past and now own a CZ 453 American in HMR for a couple years.

The CZ would be my first choice, followed by the Marlin in laminate, followed by the newer Savage Classic.

They make a nice roving woodchuck caliber with the TN'T or V Max bullets as first choice.

huntersmurf · « **Reply #58 on:** May 05, 2008, 09:06:39 AM »

I'm not suprised to hear that the 17 HMR didn't work out so well in the Pistol, I never thought the little rimfires were a good platform for a long range rimfire, like a total waist of the cartridge's potential.

I bought a Marlin 917V last spring, I did the bic pen spring trick on the trigger and I am very happy with the gun. I looked at the Savage and thought it just felt cheaper, that and reports from people at RimfireCentral of spotty accuracy. If I were to do it again and I had a little more money I may have bought a CZ. The bolt action Remington is selling, used to be imported by Charles Daily, looks like it is in the same leage as the CZ's. Mossberg guns seam to do well too, but I don't have one in rimfire so I realy can't say any more about them.

This Marlin likes the Hollow Point 17 and 20 grain bullets best.

The only thing I don't realy care for with the marlin is the way the clip is attached to the action, Savage is the same.

ratgunner · « **Reply #59 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:04:23 AM »

Savage 93R17BTVS.Very accurate little gun.