Value Rifle

[troglodyte]

I've never purchased a centerfire rifle even though I have several other firearms in the safe.  I'd like to find a 30-06 (maybe 308) value, budget-minded rifle.  I really don't know where to start.  I've heard good things about Savages and Mossbergs but would appreciate some guidance.

I am a real meat and potatoes kind of guy.  I really don't care about appearances, I just want the rifle to get the round where I point it.  Ergonomics are important (ease of safety, trigger, loading, etc.) but not at a premier cost.

I'm also not opposed to used, assuming I can find a good, solid rifle.

For all of you that will ask, "what are you hunting?", it will serve as an all-purpose rifle, from hog to, hopefully, elk one day.  I don't want, nor can afford a safe full of rifle, so this one will have to do it all.

I am now open to your suggestions.

[wink_man]

Take a good long hard look at the Stevens 200.
http://www.savagearms.com/st_200long.htm

Probably the most gun for the money out there today, and all reports of out of the box accuracy are excellent. Not the prettiest gun, but a shooter at a VERY reasonable price, with a REAL action, unlike that remington 710 thing they call a rifle.
For an all around caliber, pretty hard to beat what you mention, the 30-06. Over 100 years old, still going strong, and ammunition available from 110 to 220 grain bullets would fil the bill for the various game you mention you'd want to take with it. Ammo also available in any little mom & pop store out in the boonies too.  Also a dream to play with if you take up reloading.
If I had a choice of one caliber, it would be the 30-06, been shooting them for over 35 years now and while I have various other calibers, from the screaming .257 Weatherby Magnum, 300 Winchester Mag, etc., my 2 favorite rifles are a Remington 700 bolt action and a Remington 760 carbine pump action rifle, both in 30-06. Just my personal thought and opinions.
Garry

[Heavy C]

For value in a bolt action rifle it is hard to beat a Remington 700 ADL.  The 710 is okay because it also includes a scope, but it sure does have a cheap look and feel to it. 

[Slamfire]

Plenty of blue metal, wood stocked Savages out there, most of 'em are excellent shooters. No better all around cartridge than the '06, but the .308 ain't all that bad, until you want to shoot heavy bullets.  7mm-08 aren't to be passed over either. 

[Ratltrap]

Can't go wrong with the 30-06 for a 1 rifle battery. Nuf said.

I haven't seen the Mossberg or Stevens offerings up close so I can't comment on them, however, I've had a variety of bolt action rifles over the years, and the Savage 110's have offered the most rifle for the coin. Not pretty, but good shooters out of the box and plenty of aftermarket add ons.

[Cement Man]

I'd have to agree with the choice of an '06 - most versatile, and it is up to what you want now and in the future.  The Stevens is a fine economy rifle - loads of value for your$$ and will do fine.  But - the difference between a Stevcens and a Savage 110 is not that much and remember that you are gonna keep this for many years.  The Accu-trigger on the Savage and the potential you have to change some things on it is well worth the the extra cost.  You'd have a very accurate, reliable, and solid rifle for life. 

[Zachary]

but not at a premier cost.

As for cartridge, your best bet is a .30-06.  Few people will argue against that.

You topic asks for a "value rifle."  Yet you mention "premier cost."  It would be helpful for you to tell us what you consider to be a "premier cost" so that we can better help you.

If you are only going to own ONE centerfire rifle, then perhaps you should spend a few more dollars and get a better one.  I'm not going to tell you go out and get a Sako, Kimber, Weatherby, etc.  While these are very good rifles, IMHO, they do pass the line of being a "value."  Your mid priced rifles are the Remington BDLs and the Tikka T3s.  Your lower priced rifles are the Savages.  And your econo-line rifles under that is like the Stevens.  In the Savage category, you can also get a Remington ADL, which I consider to be a better built rifle than the Savage.

For scopes, you really get what you pay for, and going on any hunt, much less an Elk hunt, is going to hurt you if you have crappy optics.  One of the best values in optics are the Bushnell Elite 3200s (which also have rainguard), and the Nikon Buckmaster.  Both have models in 3x-9x-40mm that won't break the bank.

I certainly understand that cost is an important factor for many hunters, but try not to go too cheap, especially if you are only going to have one gun for everything.

Zachary

[Coyote Hunter]

troglodyte -

For new and value it is hard to beat the Stevens.  These are basically the old Savage line with little effort put toward cosmetics.  Nevertheless the Savage and Stevens have well deserved reputations for accuracy.  My old Savage 110E in .22-250 was a great shooter, under half inch groups at 100, and the trigger was adjustable.  Don't know if the Stevens triggers are adjustable or if Savage put a less costly trigger in.  The Savage rifles pay more attention to cosmetics and many (all?) come with the Accutrigger.  The Accutrigger, while nice, is unnecessary.

Ruger rifles have been my favorite since I started shooting centerfires.  The M77 I bought in 1982 still shoots great and it has been trouble free.  Ruger is in the process of switching from the M77 MKII to the new "Hawkeye" model and you may be able to find the MKII's at closeout prices.  I bought a new "canoe paddle" synthetic stocked MKII in .300 Win Mag a couple years ago for $375 at Sportsman's Warehouse.  Some people bitch about the Ruger triggers but the original M77's (slide safety models) have an adjustable trigger, the newer ones are easy to polish up and there are aftermarket replacement triggers that are quite good. The new Hawkeye models have an improved trigger, but in all honesty my Ruger triggers are quite good after polishing them up.  All in all I consider other features to be more important than the trigger because trigger issues are easily fixed.  Two of the things I like about Rugers is the one-piece bolt and the scope rings that mount directly to the receiver.  The scope mounting system is, IMHO, the best available.

Used rifles are a great way to get a bargain.  My last few purchases include a like new Ruger .257 Roberts (slide safety) wiht a Leupold M8 4x scope attached, $400 and now my favorite rifle, a Remington BDL chambered for .308 Win and in excellent condition, $350, and a Ruger (slide safety) in very good condition in .30-06 for $350.  All shoot great, all had good triggers when I got them and now have great triggers after a little polishing, and all shoot great. 

As to choice of cartridge, from hog to elk, a .30-06 would be my preference over a .308 Win when elk hunting and I would stuff it with Federal loads using the Trophy Bonded or TSX.

[beemanbeme]

Go to the used gun rack in your gun store(s) and look for a 30-06 in Remington model 700.  BDL or ADL with the ADL being cheaper.  You can probably get a used one for about the same as a new Stevens or Savage and you'd have a much better rifle. 

[lilabner]

You should buy a 30-06. It will get the job done on just about anything you choose to hunt. A couple of rifles you should drefinitely look at are the Savage/Stevens and the Weatherby Vanguard. They handle quite a bit differently so you should handle both and pick the one that fits best.

[oldandslow]

The Stevens 200 trigger is adjustable. Of one Remington 700, two Rugers, and the Stevens 200 I compared, the Remington bolt operated smoothly
, the Rugers were pretty rough, aqnd the Stevens was the smoothest. The Remington and one Ruger were priced at $600, the other Ruger was $640, and the Stevens was $309. One Ruger and the Remington were SS and in synthetic stocks that didn't look much better than the Stevens. The other Ruger was SS in a laminated stock and was a nice looking rifle. It's bolt was the worst of the four.

[kudzu]

For a value rifle- the Stevens 200  would be very hard to beat. Triggers are adjustable, but not the accu trig.  Every one I've shot or been around has been very accurate.
Just saw a stevens 200 30-06 at dick's for 249.00 today. That my friend, would be tough to beat. This rifle meets everything you mentioned, value, not the purryest, a real shooter, also has a 3 position tang thumb saftey.

God Luck, DM

[kyelkhunter3006]

My first question is have you ever shot a 30-06??  If not, what have you shot?  I'd like to have an idea of your abilities.

The 30-06 offers perhaps the best combination of power and recoil, but if you've never shot anything with moderate to heavy recoil, it wouldn't be my first choice.  It has pretty stout recoil in the lighter rifles.  I'd look at the .270, .308, or even the 7mm-08.  All of them are sure killers of any game animal out to 300 yds, even elk.  The new super bullets make them that much better.  They are all nicer to shoot than a 30-06.

The Stevens 200 only weigh about 6.5lbs in most calibers, and in 30-06, that rifle is going to get your attention, even after you add a scope and such.  They are great rifles and an excellent value. 

People can dog the Remington 710 all day long, but I have 5 friends that all have them in .270 and 30-06.  Each and every one of them shoots 1" groups or less with factory ammo. These guys don't shoot all year long, just a couple of practice sessions here and there.  If you are going to shoot a bit and then let it sit in the safe, you can't beat it. The scope isn't the best, but can definitely get by with it.

I've looked at the Mossbergs, and they seem well built too.  I've never shot one, so I can't comment on them.

If I were you, I'd look at the Howa 1500 or the Weatherby Vanguard series.  They are the same rifle, just different names on them.  They are all made by Howa.  They both have package deals available, and I think that they are better for the long term than the rifles listed above.  Probably the best deals for the dollar you can get.  I've seen the Weatherby packages with a Bushnell Banner scope, sling, and a hard case in the $400-$450 range.

You can spend $250 (Stevens or Mossberg) or so on a rifle, $100 (Bushnell) on a scope, $25 on a case, $25 on mounts, $15 on a sling, and you've just bought a rifle that costs the same as the Weatherby/Howa, but it's not even in the same class.

[kudzu]

I suppose that Howa and Weatherby are going to give you a scope, mounts, case and sling with every purchase.(around 400.00) Haven't seen this advertised.
Depending on use the 25-06 is a very good choice in the 200. i had one that shot under1/2'' at 100 with fac 117 hotcores. (about 15.00 abox). The reason I said HAD ONE is I got a 25-06 in the new pro hunter and let a friend have it right. `

[kyelkhunter3006]

I did a little research on the prices for the Vanguard package, I found I was off a bit.  I found the average price was just at $510 currently, depending on who you bought it from.  I looked back over some auctions I had saved from just before CHRISTmas, and the prices were $450-$475 or so.  Must have been CHRISTmas deals.  Then again, prices always increase after the new year too. 

I still stand by the choice though, IF you have $500 to spend.  You can always get the Stevens/Mossberg and get a cheaper scope ($30-$40)  and come in under $350.

You can forget the package and get the Howa/Vanguard rifle, do some judicious shopping for scopes/mounts, and come in at or under $500.  If you look for used ones, you can do better than that.

[troglodyte]

I appreciate the great responses.

To answer the questions posed.  When I say value, I don't mean a shoddy rust bucket.  I'm looking for a rifle that will do the job if I do mine.  I don't care about stainless, glossy wood, perfect blueing, or the silkiest action.   Will it feed when I close the bolt and shoot where I aimed when I pull the trigger?   I hope you can see what I mean.  If I need to dig a hole, just give me a shovel that works, I just need a good tool.

I once had a fella let me shoot a high end custom 1911.  Real slick.  Pretty too.  He told me about the trigger job, and the polished ramp, the sub MOA at some ungodly distance, and the this-and-that.  It was nice, felt really good, and put the same .45 hole in the target as my stock Defender.  Could I shoot better with it?  How much better does it have to shoot to do the job?  If I'm hip deep in snow freezing half to death with the biggest bull elk known to man in the sights how accucrate can I really be when I'm shaking from cold, nervousness, and excitement?  Will a used Stevens let me humanly put down the elk at 400 yards as well as a Sako or Kimber, assuming that I can settle down long enough to put the sights on the vitals and pull the trigger?  If so, then why do I need more? 

I'm a simple man.  I don't have a lot of disposable income nor do I care to spend more than necessary on a firearm.  My shotgun is an 870 Express.  I've owned a Wingmaster and an Auto 5.  I've shot high end over and unders but the 870 puts just as many birds in the vest as the others.  Matter of fact, my first shotgun was a singleshot H&R.  Never missed my bag limit when the birds were flying.  With that said, spending a little extra $$$ for a little bit better  shooter is not out of the question just not the primary concern.

While I am a respecter of Mr. Recoil, I do not fear him.  Yes, I have shot a 30-06.  I have shot a number rifles, I just have never had the need to have a centerfire rifle of my own.  And my arm has been so sore the next day that I could hardly lift it.  What was that cannon I was shooting?  I can't remember but it was a lot of fun.

From my selection of the 30-06 you may be able to tell that I am a purist, or a traditionalist, or a utilitarian, or whatever and like mentioned, it is a Jack-of-all-trade.

I'm not trying to come across harsh or defensive.  The reasonable questions were posed as to my abilities and considerations.  I have tried to let you get to know me a little better on this faceless medium.

I'll look into the Stevens/Savage line and the Howe/Vanguard packages.  Mostly I'm going to start hitting the used gun racks and seeing if I can find a bargin.  Maybe a Sako with a huge gash in the stocks or a horrendous scratch down the barrel that they're trying to get rid of because it is so ugly. RIGHT!

Thanks for the leads on optics.  I have been told that glass is probably more important than the rifle. 


Thanks kyelkhunter for the research.  $500 for the whole setup is not unreasonable to me.  I'll just have to drop a little more pocket change in the jar.  Who knows, I may win the lottery and it won't really matter.  (Now, where do I buy a ticket )

[kyelkhunter3006]

Reading the your last post tells me that you are a PERFECT candidate for the 30-06.  I think that it's the finest round available, my favorite. I've had/have it single shot, bolt action, semi-auto, light sporter, heavy barrel, etc.  I like it so much that I am always looking for another one.  I would look on Gunsamerica.com for a good bolt action.  There was a Howa 1500 in excellent almost new condition for $275 shipped that I eyeballed for a while.  It was listed by Randy's Hunting Center.  They are good people to work with.  They'll trade on almost anything thats a gun.   If it's still there, I'd buy it and slap a Bushnell Elite 2-7x32 or a quality fixed 4x on it and take it around the world.

[wink_man]

From my selection of the 30-06 you may be able to tell that I am a purist, or a traditionalist, or a utilitarian, or whatever and like mentioned, it is a Jack-of-all-trade.

Sounds to me like you're a remnant of the 60's, like me !!!!

Reading the your last post tells me that you are a PERFECT candidate for the 30-06.  I think that it's the finest round available, my favorite.

I agree fully !!!!

Garry

[kudzu]

If my limit was 500.00, I would still opt for the stevens 200 for 250.00. using    the balance for the mounts and the best scope I could get for around 200.00.(that's another whole debate). Iv'e grown fond of the bush. 3200 & 4200 line. Check out the Optic Zone for great scope prices.
I still believe the200 is the best deal out there on a new purchase. I have yet to hear of one that didn't shoot. The most complaints come from the stocks, however I thought that the gun had a good feel to it. There again I wouldn't rule out a good used rifle.
Best of luck with your many options, DM

[targshooter]

troglodyte,
I do not own a Stevens, but helped a friend's son sight one in a couple of months ago. They purchased the rifle in a package promotion offered at Gander Mountain here in MN. I have seen these promotions packages offered at Walmart. The rifle and scope cost under $400. It is a .243 with a Simmons scope. The trigger is the new adjustable type offered on all Savage rifles where you actually have a set trigger. It is great. To me, if a budget was my concern, I would buy one of these promotion set ups. The boy's rifle is very accurate, and he, a 13 yr. old shooter, could get bench groups of just over 1.5 inches.

[Cement Man]

I sure agree about getting a clear, precise, and hardy scope.  Just as important as anything else.  3200 Bushnells at The Optic Zone are a great value.  3X9's are kind of the sweet spot in scope prices as well and serve about all requirements.

[tuck2]

Some of the best buys can be found in the used gun racks and at gun shows but you also will see some over priced junk, Always ask if you can return it after test fireing a used firearm. Have fun looking.

[Coyote Hunter]

Some of the best buys can be found in the used gun racks and at gun shows but you also will see some over priced junk, Always ask if you can return it after test fireing a used firearm. Have fun looking.

"you also will see some over priced junk"

So true!

While I have done very well with my used purchases at gunshows (excellent Marlin 375 with Redding dies and 2 boxes of ammo for $350, excellent Marlin 336C for $225, lilke new Ruger M77 257 Roberts with Leupold M8 4x for $400,  like new Ruger M77 .30-06 for $350, and like new stainless Ruger Blackhawk .357 for $275), most shows I walk away wondering how badly the dealers want to turn their inventory. 

Often I will see rifles of no particular collector value priced for more than I can get a similar NEW rifle for if I shop around a little.  Regularly check the big box stores for their clearance sales (Christmas, before and after, is a great time of year!), check Wal-Mart, check the used gun racks at your local dealers (including Gander Mountain in some areas), and learn what the guns you are interested in, new and used, are going for.  Then when you see a real bargain you will know it.

If your local paper runs gun ads, be sure to check them, too.  I ran into a sad situation where a handicapped individual was selling off his guns to buy lottery tickets, absolutely convinced that his method of picking numbers was going to turn up the big winner in short order.  He had 5 or six great rifles but I didn't buy any of them, foolishly thinking I was somehow helping the guy by not doing so.  All I did was let someone else get them.  These days I would have bought them all. 

Pawn shops can also be a good place to get a great deal but they also often overprice the inventory.

[GaryCrow]

The 30-06 is a great choice, can't go wrong there.  I'd stay away from used rifles.  Unless you really know what you're looking at you can get burned at the used gun rack.  Used rifles are like used cars, folks don't sell them if they're working good.  Most likely the rifle was sold because someone couldn't get it to group.  Maybe they don't know how to shoot or had a bad scope on it, or maybe the rifle is just a bad shooter, you don't know.  I like the savage/stevens line, they're excellent values and generally shoot better than anything else out there.  I'd opt for the savage with the accutrigger, the stevens trigger is adjustable but barely so.  The accutrigger is really nice out of the box and if you have to send the stevens to a gunsmith for a trigger job then you're up to the price of the accutrigger savage right there.  I'd take a savage/stevens any day over a remington M700.  Where you don't want to scrimp is the scope, it's really more important that you pick a good scope than rifle.  Any rifle is most likely going to be OK, but scopes vary in quality much more, and a cheap scope makes your rifle into a club.  DO NOT BUY A RIFLE/SCOPE PACKAGE!!!  The scopes that come in these packages are junk!  I hear the bushnell 3200 mentioned a lot here, they're not my favorite but they're half decent for the price.  Much better would be a leupold VX-1 for around $200.  Also important are the mounts, my favorites are leupold dual dovetails.  They're rock solid and bases with rings will run around $35.  If you opt for a savage or stevens then leupold doesn't make dual dovetail bases for them.  The way I've solved that in the past is to use burris dual dovetail bases and leupold dual dovetail rings, they work perfectly together.

[Ratltrap]

Used rifles are like used cars, folks don't sell them if they're working good. 

Sure you can get burned, but I've sent quite a few good shooters to my dealers used rack just 'cause I wanted to try something different. If you go to a reputable dealer that will give you a few days to evaluate the gun there usually isn't a problem. New guns are nice, warranty and all, but I've probably gotten as many gems off the used rack as out of the box over the years.

[tscott]

Another Vanguard fan, or Howa 1500 (Same rifle) if you don't mind plastic... legacysports.com

[Coyote Hunter]

...Unless you really know what you're looking at you can get burned at the used gun rack. ... DO NOT BUY A RIFLE/SCOPE PACKAGE!!!  The scopes that come in these packages are junk!  ...

You can get burned buying a used rifle, just like you can a used car, but there are many more reasons people sell firearms than they can't get them to group.  Divorce, illness, financial crisis, death of the owner, a desire to try something else, too much recoil and not enough recoil (going to a "bigger" cartridge) come to mind, but there are many others.

All three of my Marlins (1989 .30-30, 1980 .375 Win and 2000 .45-70) were purchased used, two at gun shows and one at a dealer, and all shoot very well.  On a typical day we're talking under 1-1/4" at 100 yards with handloads and scope.  Don't know the story behind these but no regrets at all.  The iron-sighted, one owner, late-70's or early 80's Browning B92 .44 Mag was also used, a divorce situation, but shoots as well as my eyes allow.  The 1989 Ruger .257 Roberts had been purchased new in by the previous owner and had barely been shot - "maybe a couple boxes" according to the owner and judging by the lack of scratches in the bluing under the slide safety, something I 'fixed' in the first couple trips to the range, he was telling the truth.  The .257 Roberts is now my favorite rifle and shoots better than half-MOA at 200 yards when the wind permits.  Among other things I use it to plink clay pigeons at long range - 200-300 yards typically and 400 on occasion.  So far this rifle has, after a couple ranging shots, gone 2 for 2 at 500 yards - a real piece of trash - not!  The original owner dumped the .257 Roberts because a magnum was 'needed'.  My most recent acquisition is a 1984 (?) Ruger M77 .30-06 in great shape that consistently shoots 1-1/4MOA at 200 yards.  Don't know why the previous owner sold it but I got it at a gun show.The stainless 1981 Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum was a one-owner gun with a minor problem, a bent basepin, something Ruger fixed for free.  Now I use this pistol to shoot steel at 200 yards.  A 1984 Remington M700 BDL in .308 Win came off the used racks at Gander Mountain.  The first 9 shots at 100 yards (all using .5g increments in powder charge, so not even the same load!) put 6 holes into a group that measured less than 1 bullet diameter wide and 2 bullet diameters tall.  Another used piece of trash!

Of course there are used firearms that don't shoot so well - I just haven't found any - yet!

As to the scopes, I agree about the rifle/scope packages - you're much better off going to a gun show and picking up a used Leupold.  I have several that I paid $100 for (M8 4x) but also have several that I paid half or a bit more of what a new one would run - including my favorite, a Vari-X III 4.5-15 AO.   Worst case, get a Leupold VX I or II, a Burris Fullfield II (I have a couple with the 'Ballistic Plex reticle and love them), or a Simmon Aetec.  Some follks don't like the Simmons but my buddy and I both have Aetecs on our 7mm Mags and love them.  I also really like the '44 Mag' scopes from Simmons and have had no problems with either type.

[kyelkhunter3006]

I've never had a problem with a used rifle, or any used gun.  Well, I did have one Rem. 700 BDL 30-06 that the bolt release didn't work right, probably the reason I got it for $350 bucks, with a Leupold 2-7x33 on it.  Ended up degreasing the trigger mech, light oil, and presto!  It worked again.  That rifle would put 10 of the Winchester 180gr Accu-Bonds into less than an inch.  Most other loads went 1.25" or less too.  I've had more issues with factory new guns in the last couple years than I've ever had with used guns.

Speaking of used guns and divorces, that can be a good way to get something on the cheap.  I buddy of mine bought a walnut stocked Encore, 4 rifle barrels, the .50 ml barrel, and a composite stock set for $250.  That was one P-ed off ex-wife!   

[carl425]

I have a Rem 700 SPS Stainless.  The SPS seems to be the current "value" model in the 700 line.  I bought this one to shoot until I could get a custom built.  It's a solid, good shooting rifle for the money.

[GaryCrow]

You can get burned buying a used rifle, just like you can a used car, but there are many more reasons people sell firearms than they can't get them to group.  Divorce, illness, financial crisis, death of the owner, a desire to try something else, too much recoil and not enough recoil (going to a "bigger" cartridge) come to mind, but there are many others.

I'll agree that you can find some good bargains in the used gun racks, I've found a couple myself.  However, the man's post stated that he'd never bought a centerfire rifle before.  I read that as "I'm pretty inexperienced with centerfire rifles",  so, in my opinion, steering him towards used guns is not a smart thing to do.  He probably can't spot a good value used rifle like those of us that live and breath this stuff.  I can't count the times I've gone to a gun show or local gun shop and seen some beat up M700 remington that the seller was asking $100 more for than it could be bought new.  Some sucker would most likely buy it after the seller convinced him that it was a "rare" collectors edition that's worth four times what he's asking.  Likewise the "collectible" chinese SKS with the better russian ammo that you can't get in the U.S. because it's too powerful.  All this is a steal for only $500.  There ARE decent deals, sometimes really great deals, to be had in used guns IF you know what to look for.  If you don't then you stand a better than average chance of getting taken.  I know a couple of guys that I generally consider to be good fellows, until they start trading guns.  As soon as they start gun swapping they turn into lying demons who will gladly tell you that push feed M70 ranger 30-06 is a rare no longer made model that's worth their $800 asking price.  It's relatively easy to figure out via the internet whether or not the asking price for a new rifle is fair, not so for most used rifles.  I'm just trying to get the guy into a quality rifle that he'll be happy with without him getting taken advantage of buy some unscrupulous gun dealer, and we both know there are a lot of them out there.  I feel that telling an inexperienced rifle buyer to stick to new purchases is sound advice.