Author Topic: Airweight Snubby and Plus P (Read 2603 times)

The Pistoleer · « **on:** May 07, 2006, 01:25:13 PM »

I bought a S&W model 638 which is much like the 642 but the hammer while shrouded can be cocked like the old Bodyguard.

I put a set of the hard rubber Crimson Trace grips on it.

Yesterday I shot it for the first time with some plus P rounds. Man 3 shots is all I could handle. My hand hurt too much to continue! Now I shoot some pretty hot loads in my 44 magnums but I have never felt recoil like this before.

I assume that softer boot grips would help some but I really want to have the CT grips on this gun. The softer CT grips are bigger and won't conceal as well. I am wondering if there is something I could put on the grip where it meets the web of my hand that would soften the recoil?

Any help would be appreciated.

Pete

mjbgalt · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2006, 02:15:54 PM »

i had one and sold it...i didn't like the accuracy or the kick. it has a very specific purpose and that is to be hidden until once in a lifetime if you have to use it.

there are lots of better grips than what comes on at the factory, but none of them will make it hit the broad side of a barn at 25 yards...

-Matt

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2006, 04:15:21 PM »

I use the slightly larger CTC soft grips on my 3" Model 60 .357 Magnum with full magnum loads and it's no problem at all to shoot. Try those grips and gain control of that light weight gun. What good is concealment if you can't shoot it and hit what you aim at when the SHTF?

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2006, 05:44:01 PM »

Graybeard, thank you for the reply. I didn't say I didn't hit where I aimed. I did. It's just that it hurt too bad to shoot more than 3 rounds. All individual shots. No double taps. The cartridges were 2 differnet brands of +P 125 gr. JHPs . I never did shoot the Speer 135 gr Gold Dots I bought just for this gun.

I am thinking of trying some standard velocity 125gr SWCHPs.

Pete

Sir Knight · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2006, 09:31:49 PM »

Quote from: The Pistoleer

I bought a S&W model 638 which is much like the 642 but the hammer while shrouded can be cocked like the old Bodyguard.

I put a set of the hard rubber Crimson Trace grips on it.

Yesterday I shot it for the first time with some plus P rounds. Man 3 shots is all I could handle. My hand hurt too much to continue! Now I shoot some pretty hot loads in my 44 magnums but I have never felt recoil like this before.

I have the lighter 342 model with CT laser grips and it is even more of a handful than the 638. I normally don't shoot 44 magnums, but my .45ACP's kick less than my 342.

As a result, my 342 rarely gets carried and when I need a lightweight snubbie, I reach for my 332 in .32mag instead. While the .32mag is significantly weaker than the .38special, it is superior to the .32ACP and comes in just under the .380ACP in terms of effectiveness. Additionally, the 332 holds one extra round than the 342 and six rounds of .32mag actually send 10% more energy out of the barrel than five rounds of .38special.

KY Ratshooter · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2006, 12:59:25 PM »

I've been in hibernation for a while, when did they start rating the airweights for +P? I wouldn't shoot +P through my old M&P 38, much less an airweight.

I had an airweight bodyguard beck in the '60s. That was before anyone had come up with the +P load. Our favorite load for the S&W snubbies of all kinds was a hollow base wadcutter loaded upside down over 3 grains of BE. These are 3 foot guns, not 25 yard target shooters! Emergency last ditch lifesavers combining max concealibility with max power.

Wish I had that Bodyguard back.

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2006, 01:22:12 PM »

Ratshooter, I'm not sure when they did but the owner's manual indicates that it is rated for the plus P but not the +P+.

My older model 36 Chief's Special that I got in 1970 is not rated for +P but I have shot it with a few. It is a steel frame gun. I might get the hammer bobbed and use the hotter loads in it.

Pete

Sir Knight · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2006, 09:52:50 PM »

They even have an airlite chambered in .357mag ... the 340. As I said, shooting regular .38's out of it is a handful. I can't even imagine how a .357mag would feel.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2006, 03:23:52 PM »

Pistoleer - your 638 is almost the same as my Model 38 - mine is the Airweight Bodyguard and I purchased that revolver for both double and single action shooting. The factory grips are way too small for even a modest hand - get yourself either a set of Hogue or a set of Pachmyers, which both my M37 and M38 wear. It makes all the difference in the world.

As to accuracy - sorry guys but I can ring a 12" steel gong most all day long with my snubbie and so can a bunch of other guys who shoot snubbies in my neck of the woods. If you reload your best bet for the snubbies ain't a Plus P load, it's a standard pressure heavy bullet load and Winchester used to push a 200 gn rn cast slug over 3.8 gns of WW231 for about 770'/sec (longer barrel I'm sure). Yes the newer j-frames are Plus P rated but you really do not gain any benefit from a Plus P load in a snubbie - a heavy slow movin' ton of lead will serve you better and by the way, that 200 gn load is what rings the gong. You can see the things travel downrange when there is a snow cover - it's a hoot but you should hear them smack the hay outta that gong and set it swinging. Much more effective than the 158 grainers.

In addition I believe you might still be able to find a S&W hammer shroud that was made for the 36s - sets them up like the 38s. First things first though, get new grips. Mikey.

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2006, 05:28:00 PM »

Mikey, thanks for the reply. I have Pachmayr grips on my 36. I sure wish I could find a shroud for it.

On the 638 I really want the Crimson Trace grips on that gun. I put the smaller, harder CT grips on because they conceal better than the bigger, softer model.

I had bought some Speer 135 gr. Gold Dots which were designed for snubbies. I never did shoot them because the 125 grain Winchester and Remington +Ps hurt too much :shock: .

Pete

Mikey · « **Reply #10 on:** May 11, 2006, 02:27:42 AM »

Pete - you're welcomed. I have found the Pachmyers to be pretty darned comfortable on my snubbies and they conceal well. They aer also fast to grip - much more so than the teeny tiny little boot grips that come on those things. It is amazing how they can rotate in your hand when you shoot those snubbies and throw your shots way off (way off at cqc ranges too, which is pretty dangerous when you carry for personal protection. With a set of small grips that don't fit your hand it is pretty easy to see why many shootouts result in none of the shooters getting hit even at point blank ranges.

Another issue is the ammo being used. Plus Ps snap a lot and have noticeable recoil even in the 38 caliber. Lots of the snubbie owners I know use plan ol 158 gn swcs - some use just the factory wadcutters. Many American shooters are big on the 'hot and fast' loads pushed by ammo makers trying to get beyond a 'percentage' of one shot stops but I have always felt that is why guns have more than one shot. If you have to shoot someone once they are worth shooting twice and two well placed wadcutters will be pretty decisive.

Many europeans have never felt the need for hot and fast loads and in a couple of loading manuals with euro powders and load data they make the statement that only a fool would stand in front of a 148 gn wadcutter moving at even modest velocities. I agree, but there are many fools out there who make the mistake of thinking they can't be hurt and a couple of hot lead wadcutters in the breadbasket will usually change their way of thinking................JMHO. Mikey.

Old Griz · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2006, 05:50:27 PM »

:cb2: If it hurts that much, move up to a 2.5" K-frame. Still easy to hide, and a lot more plesant to shoot!

weemsf · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2006, 10:03:18 AM »

I don't shoot that many heavy loads out of my 442 Airweight. 148 Wadcutters are about all that I use in it. However, for carry purposes I put 135 grain +P. When things get tense, recoil is not much of a problem.

waltcowan · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2006, 10:25:37 AM »

why not use standard 158 grain lswchp? should be good enough between 3 to 8 feet.

aaronrkelly · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2006, 11:30:18 AM »

Quote from: Sir Knight

They even have an airlite chambered in .357mag ... the 340. As I said, shooting regular .38's out of it is a handful. I can't even imagine how a .357mag would feel.

I got one....they are lighter then airweight, its the scandium frame. About 4 ozs lighter then the airweights.....about 12 oz total.

Its about like getting hit open handed with a big sledge hammer. Its uncomfortable......its past that, its painful.

Its an easy way to win a few bucks.....bet someone they cant fire 10 rounds, most dont make it past 2, let along a full cylinder.

It definitely is a "carry alot, shoot a little" gun.

My friend now uses it as a BUG (PD officer) due to the light weight, but its full of .38spl +Ps instead of .357 mag.

Dan Cash · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2006, 11:11:30 AM »

Let me second waltcowan's recommendation of 158 grain bullets. They will ot punish you or your gun as much. The 158 gr. slug is a much better killer than the armchair gunwriters give it credit for.

erh · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2006, 09:51:51 AM »

I generally use plain 'ol .38 spc. "Low Velocity" Hydra-Shok rounds; even in my .357's...
I don't "flinch", & I "Do" hit my mark..! 2 great features as far as I can tell..!
Just my .02 cents...

This also goes right along with a great quote my Dad often uses...
("Hit what you're shootin' at;
Don't "Scare it" into submission..!")

poliziotto · « **Reply #17 on:** September 14, 2006, 02:05:36 AM »

This is just a little off topic, but I'll ask anyway. I carry a 360 SC with Winchester 130 grain +P, and while talking to the armorer at work he told me that there had been some issues with light weight Smiths and certain ammo jumping the bullet crimp due to recoil. He measured the bullet OAL on five rounds, I loaded them in the Smith, fired four and pulled out the fifth. Low and behold, the fifth round had jumped its crimp by a tiny bit. His caution was that certain rounds might increase their OAL enough to jam the weapon. I've fired quite a few rounds from my Smith with no issue, but then again they were 38 spcls. in a weapon rated for 357, so I guess I have some leeway there. Has anyone experienced this with their light weights, especially the scandiums? He also said that only certain ammo is prone to this and this issue may also be gun dependent. Sounds like I need a good +P wadcutter.

Kragman71 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 03, 2006, 05:09:58 PM »

Quote from: The Pistoleer on May 07, 2006, 05:44:01 PM

Graybeard, thank you for the reply. I didn't say I didn't hit where I aimed. I did. It's just that it hurt too bad to shoot more than 3 rounds. All individual shots. No double taps. The cartridges were 2 differnet brands of +P 125 gr. JHPs . I never did shoot the Speer 135 gr Gold Dots I bought just for this gun.

I am thinking of trying some standard velocity 125gr SWCHPs.

Pete

Pistoleer
I have a model36 with the origional wood grips.I've been shooting the new Speer 135 grain Gold Dots with no difficulty.I have a rather small hand;maybe that helps.But maybe all that you need is a litle more weightin your hand.
Frank

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:41:23 AM »

Kragman, thanks for the reply. I also have a 36 but the point of the buying the 638 Airweight was to have a lighter carry gun. I understand that Crimson Trace has come out with a version of the smaller rip with a soft rubber insert that fits into the web of your hand. They are suppose to be a lot more comfortable. I'll be looking into getting a set later.

Pete

tallpaul · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2006, 10:55:10 AM »

I guess I don't understand.... I have had a 640 for several years and don't find the 125 mags tough at all... I just bought a 642 to get the airweight and shot it last week... the 158 lswch +p were not anywhere near rough. Is a plus p not a plus p? I was a bit hesitent hearing posts like these. BTW I like the gun and the sigyhts are on. Bouncing a coffe can at 20-25 yards was not hard at all. I like it!

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #21 on:** October 08, 2006, 05:43:20 PM »

I think it has something to do with the hard rubber Crimson Trace grips. There just isn't any give to them. Perhaps it also might have something to do with the arthritis in my hands. The loads I have always shot in my 44 magnums hurts more than it did just a couple of years ago.

The 125 grain plus Ps hurt very bad in the web of my hand. They are fine in the 36.

Pete

Keith L · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2006, 11:58:06 PM »

I shot some regular 38 special loads through my buddy's airweight and found them painful. My .357 hurts less with hardball loads. In my case it pushed the trigger guard into my knuckles. Not for me.

Hammerdown · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2006, 05:19:52 AM »

Quote from: The Pistoleer on May 07, 2006, 01:25:13 PM

I bought a S&W model 638 which is much like the 642 but the hammer while shrouded can be cocked like the old Bodyguard. Yesterday I shot it for the first time with some plus P rounds. Man 3 shots is all I could handle. My hand hurt too much to continue! Now I shoot some pretty hot loads in my 44 magnums but I have never felt recoil like this before. I am wondering if there is something I could put on the grip where it meets the web of my hand that would soften the recoil?

Any help would be appreciated.

Pete

Hello Pete
I own a cousin to your revolver the model 37 Air-Weight. I too have suffered the sting from firing mine. I once used a shooters Glove, and this took a lot of the sting away, and made recoil Tolerable. Smith & Wesson made these guns to be carried a lot and fired very Little, This is exactly why we see NONE with adjustable sights as they figured no one wanted to put this revolver in a comfortable target revolver, even though they group well they are NOT intended for long comfortable target shooting. They are designed to be a last effort Life saver, not a range enjoyment revolver. Due to their light weight they offer an excellent choice for being carried daily adding little discomfort to the one carrying them. I have fired mine just enough to see it groups well when I do my job. The Glove shooting triggered a wise guy at my Local range to call me "Michael Jackson" All around me got a big Kick out of his comment.

Evidently Mr. Wise Guy, had Never fired an Air-Weight revolver before so I said Well, Have a go of this revolver without the glove. Now challenged in front of his buddies he HAD to fire it. After 5 Painful Rounds he went back to firing his Ruger Mark-II .22 Pistol and did not have any more comments.

I look at my Daily carry Piece as a carry survival tool I hope I NEVER have to use. Much like my Pet Boston Bull dog, the Air-Weight revolver will leave you walking away remembering the unpleasant pain it can provide if Pushed. Regards, Hammerdown

Keith L · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2006, 09:13:32 AM »

I have rubber grips on my K frame .357 (I don't recall what brand), and it has rubber that goes all the way forward to the back of the trigger guard. I wonder if there are similar grips for the Airweight, and if they are available if there is enough room between the grip and the trigger guard to get your hand in if so equipped. I really like the idea of one for a carry gun, but don't like the pain. I suppose if you needed to use it you wouldn't feel the pain.

My Boston only has 3 teeth left, so I suppose he isn't as much of a factor as he used to be...

tuckerdog1 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2006, 09:46:54 AM »

I just got a 638 a couple months ago. I love the little gun. Only had it to the range twice, and put about 100 rounds each of 38 & 38+P. I had no problem with either. I like the standard grip the gun came with as well. The double action trigger is a little heavy, but the single action is one of the best. I'm also happy with the accuracy. Sure no tack driver, but I have no trouble with Coke cans @ 15 yds.
I have a friend with the 340PD Scandium. I must admit, I can't get through a cylinder of 357s in that gun. That was part of what drove my decision to get the 638. I saw no reason to pay all that extra dough to save 2 oz or so, and the ability to fire a round I wouldn't use.
Plus, I like the option of going single action.

Tuckerdog1

The Pistoleer · « **Reply #26 on:** October 10, 2006, 01:19:09 PM »

Tuckerdog, I have been thinking of putting the factory grips back on just to see how they feel with the same loads that I shot with the Crimson Trace grips. I really think the pain was due to the combination of sharp recoiling ammuntion and the hard rubber grips that just have no give to them.

Pete

dawei · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2006, 03:16:07 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on May 07, 2006, 04:15:21 PM

I use the slightly larger CTC soft grips on my 3" Model 60 .357 Magnum with full magnum loads and it's no problem at all to shoot. Try those grips and gain control of that light weight gun. What good is concealment if you can't shoot it and hit what you aim at when the SHTF?

GB, your Mdl 60 is an excellent choice in a carry gun for sure. That 22+oz of steel handles a lot better than my 14.5oz Airweight. What is your regular carry load for your SHTF gun?