ladle and mould review

[Rickk]

The 4# Rowell Bottom-pouring ladle came in today, so I went outside and played with my almost brand new mould (about 2.1 inches...2#-ish) from Powder Keg.

I had played with the mould a bit last weekend. It cast pretty balls, but I needed a "system" to make it easier to deal with.

I made up a little stand to hold the mould for starters.

Last weekend I was using a 2# ladle, which with spilage and the simple fact that it is really hard to fill it right to the top, just wasnlt making a 2# pour in one shot.

Here is what I found...

The mould wants to run really hot to fill nicely. No big deal, just had to know that.

The bottom pour ladle is really nice.... all the crap stays out of the pour

The sprue shrinkage due to the lead being really hot was significant. It is more than the sprue cavity can handle, so you want to make sure you are topping the sprue off for quite a while to avoid defects in the sprue area. A 4# ladle, filled reasonably well, is just barely about right for a 2# mould. Make sure it is as full as you can get it (3.5+ maybe) and you will do OK. If you are ordering a ladle, go at least 2# bigger than the expected ball.

The mould has no handles and was a bit tricky to handle last weekend. This weekend was a bit better. I made a holding fixture to hold the mould. Welders gloves are a necessity to manipulate things, and they work well. The fixture I made allows you to slide the mold apart without having to put half of the mold someplace. My old ladle (about 2#) was handy for picking up the freshly poured ball off of my home made fixture and moving it someplace to cool. A 2x8 with lots of 1 inch or so holes partially drilled in it makes a nice holding fiixture for hot balls by the way.

Expect a thru-put once everything is hot of about 8-10 balls an hour. Maybe it will get better with practice.

The balls came out nice once everything got hot.

Here is the setup I used in action:










Rick

[Double D]

Rick,

When did you order that ladle? Seems like you got it pretty fast!!

I had the same issue casting zinc with Wes' mould. You have to keep feeding the puddle.



The mould does need some sort of handle to work it.

[Rickk]

It came in four days... awesome service.

Handles would be nice... thought about trying to concoct something and weld it on.

The V-stand underneath helps alot though

[Rickk]

One other thing... I see that you have the sprue nibbs still attached to your ball. Maybe it is beacuse you were casting with zinc rather than lead. but mine fell off when I pulled the mold apart... no sprue cleanup needed at all.

I opened the mold maybe a minute after finishing the pour. The ball was hard, but I think it was still hot enough to make it easy for the sprue nibb to fall off all by itself.

[Double D]

This mould is so big that it is hard to handle. The ball weighs 6 lbs and the mould probably about the same.




Just trying to handle the mould when it was hot and wearing welding gloves was difficult. The alignment groove got damaged when trying to put the hot mould back together.

I think I will get a #6 Rowell ladle for casting these balls. 

It's something that I won't be doing often as the balls are virtually undamaged when shot.  But when I do cast it will be nice to have the volume of metal to make a good pour.



 
 

[Michael Az]

Do you fellows have a lathe or mill? Shouldn't be too hard to make some handles for your molds.
Michael

[GGaskill]

I made a set of Lyman-style clasp handles for a 1.2" Minie ball shot for my 30 mm "Parrott", and while they work well, it took most of a day to do it. 



The end hinge handles used for the multiple cavity moulds would be a lot easier to make. 



And I have seen the large open style ViseGrip clamps adapted as large mould handles also.

[Rickk]

I don't think that visegrips would open enough to get the ball out.

"Lyman style" handles are what "do-it" cannon ball style fishing sinkers use and they work out OK, although you still need a C-clamp to hold them closed.

I don't think it would take a lathe or mill to make handles... just dealing with some flat stock... cut it, bend it a little drill a few holes, make some wooden handles. The risky part would be welding something to each end of the mold to bolt the handles to.+

My V-block does it for me for now... I'll wait for a more talented one to show us a better way

Double D... per your casting pictures, you are way neater that I am 

[GGaskill]

The risky part would be welding something to each end of the mold to bolt the handles to.

That is certainly true.  Were I doing it, I would make a set of gang mould style handles, and tack weld to the outside corners (the thickest part of the mould) a couple of pieces of angle separated by space for the handles with a single hole to allow the mould halves to align themselves.

[Double D]

My idea has to do with flat bar also.  Becasue the mould is so big and heavy I don't want to tie them together. Besides if they are hinged on one end you will need a longish handle on the other operate them.  Leverage them becomes an issue.   In my  case I would need try to control 12 lbs "on the end of a stick"  Awkward.

What I have in mind is to attach via two bolts on the outer flat of the mould,  a flat bar handle that extends about 8 to 10 inches on either side  of the mould.  The mounting bolt holes wil go completely through the mould block in alignment.  One set of mould block mounting bolts will be short and one set will be longer than the block is wide.  The end of the bolt that protrudes from the mould will be turned smooth and have the end rounded to become an alignment pin. 

After attaching the handles,  machine the aligning flange off the mould face.  When the mould heats and cools this flange binds.  Actually I think this flange would work if it were a taper.

To use the mould simply put them together aligning with the pins and C-clamp them for pour.  Remove the clamp turn the mould on it's side and lift the half off.  The handles give you a leverage/striking point to loosen the mould.

Wes has my mould and mortar tube right now.  I may have him do the mod.

Double D... per your casting pictures, you are way neater that I am 

I used a photographic model...they use a lot of make-up to cover the blemishes

Rick one thing I meant to point out earlier. On those ball in which the sprue fell off you want to be sure to tube guage the balls.  If the metal is hot enough for the sprue to fall when the ball come out it's hot enough to slump and make the ball distort.

[Rickk]

Double D,

I had him make me a gauge when he made the mold. I had one that looked funny... it was an early cast before things fully warmed up. It only took a few seconds with a file to fix it. No other problems were found.

I am thinking that, since the sprue solidifies before the ball core, that a bit of core shrinkage is actually tearing the solid but still hot and somewhat soft sprue metal right at the narrowest part, which exactly where one would want it to. For the most part if found a slightly recessed dimple in the sprue area rather than a projection.

Being a whole different metal, Zinc might cool differently. That might explain why my sprues fall off and yours don't.

For lead anyway, the fill hole design seems to be just about perfect as long as you keep it topped off well. If it was thicker in that area, it may cool slower, making what auto-sprue separation not happen. It may also be harder to get the sprue out.

Topping it off isn't a big deal...that is somewhat normal even on bigger rifle and handgun moulds as well. It just took a couple of practice casts to figure out that it takes quite a while before you can stop. I guess that makes sense for something with 2# of lead in it.


You lost me on the handle design. I'll wait for the pictures :-)

BTW, are your models all over 18 years old? Don't wanna get in trouble ;-)

[Double D]

Handle design simplified.  Two 24 inch flat bars one bolted to the left mould and one  bolted to the right mould.

[Rickk]

Thats maybe sorta was what I was thinking if I put handles on it. I was going to bend them a bit near the joint end so they meet when closed and put a bolt thru there for a hinge (Like the Lyman gang mold handles)

I was gunna weld two parallel plates on each side, drill them for thru bolts, and attach the handles that way. I think GGaskill was thinkin the same thing. For me, welding is faser and easier than drilling and tapping.

I have the necessary equipment, and can probably do it without too much damage to either the mould or myself, but for now, I am reasonably happy with the current setup, so I'll let one of you guys screw up... er, i mean "modify" the mould and I will learn from your experience :-)

[Double D]

The only problem I see with hinging them is you are going have a great weight on the end of a lever.  With a mould this big and heavy you will need handles on both sides of the mould with the weight in the middle.

Of course in my case, I have close to 12 lbs of mould and ball on the end. 

I suppose if you made hinge end long enough  you could lift the mould up wwiththe handles and pivot with hinge end resting on the bench.  That would probably work. I kinda like that idea, glad you thought of that.

[GGaskill]

That's the trick for filling really heavy moulds.  Put some kind of support underneath them while you are filling them.  Anything to carry the weight for you.

[Max Caliber]

Here is a picture of my mould for casting 34 ounce lead balls. The bar stock handles are bolted to the back of the mould halves and pivot four inches from the back of the mould, allowing the mould halves to swing in a wider arc and close easily on the four allignment pins. The large sprue is necessary to properly feed the mould and in operation the casting process is smooth and quick.

[jeeper1]

Finally a mold with a large enough sprue.

[Rickk]

On the mould Powder Keg did for me the sprue hole is a sharper angle. It does not taper down almost to straight like yours does.... it makes a sharp edge as it enters the cavity. I think that helps make the sprue just fall off when I open the mould.

Maxcaliber, does yours fall off or do you have to cut it?

[Max Caliber]

Rickk, When I let the metal get too hot the sprue will shear off when the mould is opened.

Max

[Rickk]

I made 10 more balls last night in about an hour, not counting warmup time.

I am finding that the mold in my home made base, using welding gloves is not too hard to deal with at all.

Most of the time is spent simply waiting for things to cool enough so that the lead has fully solidified. I cast alot... lots of calibers. I have found that with any mold if you go too fast the mold will overheat and not close correctly untill it cools a bit. This mold does the same if casting much faster than one every 5 minutes or so (that is hardly a surprise - they really all do that).

I did come up with a thought while casting last night that I may try if I get motivated enough. Rather than some exotic sissors-type handle arrangment, I was thinking of continuing to use my home made stand and just weld a 12 inch or so long 3/8 steel rod to the side of each half, in a pointing-up direction. I would then slide (and glue) sections of 1 inch dowel with 3/8 inch holes drilled in the center over the upper ends of the rods. They would look sort of like wooden handles often found on wood burning stove doors. The handles might eliminate the need for using gloves to handle the mold.