Author Topic: bolt in a .30-30 (Read 1076 times)

Kal52 · « **on:** December 02, 2005, 04:14:50 AM »

Just out of curiosity...

Has anyone ever made a bolt action in this chambering?
Just wondering, from what i hear the new ammo for it is really nice, and might not be a bad option in a bolt gun.

Thanks

Dave

victorcharlie · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2005, 05:05:46 AM »

Yes, the Remington 788 was chambered for 30.30.........a good friend of mine has one........I shot it a few months ago.....He got it as a kid and wouldn't take anything for it..........

If I wanted a 30 caliber bolt gun, I don't think I'd choose the 30.30.......to many other choices that would suit me better.........like a .308......arguably the most inhearantly accurate 30 caliber made and many more bullets manufactured that are designed to operated at 308 velocities.......just a lot more options with cartridges that run a bit faster in 30 caliber.......

Plus, the rimmed design of the 30.30 doesn't really fit well with most bolt actions.........and that's probably one of the reasons we don't see many bolt action rifles designed for it......

There are still a few 788's around that chamber the 30.30 if your patient and look around for awhile........

mountainview · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2005, 05:13:08 AM »

Savage chambered the 340 bolt gun in 30-30 for a while. While it was a bit aesthetically challenged, a few folks I knew carried these rifles which seemed to shoot ok and do the job in the deer woods. But the lever action always ruled the roost when it came to the 30-30.

Barstooler · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2005, 09:41:13 AM »

When I was way younger both my brother and I had Savage model 340s in 30-30. I reloaded even back then, and while my 30-30 would shoot MOA at 100 yards, his would be all over the paper. Never could bring it in even after rebedding it for him.

The Savage was clip fed, so it did not have any feeding problems, but the clip only held three rounds. I used to keep a spare clip in each pocket when I hunted, so ammo didn't rattle around. But one day I found myself a mile away from my jeep -- where I had forgot my spare clips -- and with a wounded deer in front of me that I had downed with my very "last" shot. I had to finish the kill with my hunting knife... a real sporty ending!

That was the last of several deer I took with that 30-30. I just found it too under-powerd for anything else, so I built myself a 35 Whelen which was still a wildcat back in those days.

Barstooler

victorcharlie · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2005, 11:19:34 AM »

Quote from: Barstooler

W

That was the last of several deer I took with that 30-30. I just found it too under-powerd for anything else, so I built myself a 35 Whelen which was still a wildcat back in those days.

Barstooler

Under powered? Really? Could have fooled me! All those hunters who regulary kill deer with them must have been fooled too! :eek:

jvs · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2005, 03:23:55 PM »

The Savage 340 and 840 are probably the best known bolt action .30-30's out there. Before that was the Stevens 325, which had a Mauser style bolt handle. Savage also came out with a .30-30 Pump a while ago. A Model 170 I believe.

If you happen to find a nice used 340, make sure that if it was drilled and tapped for scope mounts, that the job was done correctly. The Receivers on the 340's were heat treated to such a high Rockwell that alot of the older Gunsmiths didn't like doing the job because the drilling was murder on drill bits. And if the gun owner tried to drill and tap it themselves, they botched the job.

Brithunter · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2005, 12:00:36 AM »

Hi All,

Winchester also chambered the Model 54 in 30-30

The 30-30 cartridge is actually very efficient, I load it with 125 & 130 Grn spitzer bullets in my 30-30 bolt-action and get a velocity of 2800 fps with them using H335 powder. Now this is not far behind the .308! I cannot use heavier spitzers due to magazine length restrictions other wise I would try the 150 & 165 Grn spitzers as well.

However a 130 grn bullet at 2800 fps is not underpowered and drops deer well, accuracy is superb as this picture shows:-

3 shot group at 100 yards shot at Bisley Short Sibera Range.

With a Roe Doe from this Spring.

This rifle is a bespoke made rifle the actual action would have normally been a .243 or some such cartridge so the high pressure loads am using are normal pressure for the action if not the cartridge. As Yet I have had no case troubles no signs of case seperation even after several reloads. Scope is a Schmidt & Bender 6x42 in Apel EAWswing mounts.

Brithunter · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2005, 03:23:55 AM »

Hi There,

Hmm well I just went to the Winchester site and picked up this information on the :-

308 Winchester 150 gr. Super-X® Power-Point® ammunition whic according to them has a muzzle velocity of 2820 fps.

I got the idea of the souped up 30-30 loads after reading an article in Petersens Rifle Shooter magazine tried the load with the 130 Grn Hornady bullet and got this result and seeing how I also achieved an average velocity of 2609 fps using a Sierra 150 grn Flat point bullet with no pressure signs I could go higher with the powder charge. Have not done that yet as the accuracy is so good I decided to stick with it.

Checked my reloading manuals and the .308 with the 125-130 grn bullets can achieve around the 3050 fps mark, so yes the .308 Win is about 250 fps faster but that's using a compressed charge and quite a bit more powder than my 30-30 does. Being a smaller case it cannot possibly compete on a level footing as the .308 but it can and will get close. The Deer won't noticed the difference, dead is dead and you don't get deader than that. Now saying that I have tried the 130 grn bullets in my .308 but cannot get decent accuracy out of them

:roll:

Brithunter · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2005, 06:58:21 AM »

Oh dear now put the rattle back in :roll:

I was comparing the cartridges at roughly equal pressures. That is what the article was about. I cannot use these loads in a traditional lever action as they produce about 50,000 psi which is roughly equal to the .308 pressure. SAMMI cannot increase the presure on the 30-30 as these lever action rifles cannot take that kind of pressure with out problems let's face it they were designed when smokless powder was in it's infancy.

One thing this has done is proved the falicy of the old weak case mantra. I still see the warning in Speers manual about 30-30 being weak brass. Huh brass is brass assuming it's the same composition so it's the same strength as the next piece. Now chambering and lock can make a real difference :wink: and seeing as how I have a nice Mauser style bolt in a modern made action strength concerns are not an issue.

The way the 30-30 cartridge has performed loaded with these loads has impressed me greatly and the figures are from a chrongraph and not some book. I also chrongraphed my .308 on the same day and with a 165 Grn flat based Speer bullet using Rel 15 and a WLR it recorded an average velocity of 2538 fps :eek: now according to the book it should be somewhere about 2650 as their starting load of 43.0 grns gave them 2587 fps and I was loading 45.0 grns. They list the Max load as 47.0C which is a compressed load at 2812.

Factory Winchester 150 Grn HP ammo chronographed at 2309fps in my 30-30 but accuracy was not special :roll: Oh yes I am new to reloading, have only been doing it for 18 years including making cases for obsolete cartridges like the 6.5x53R out of .303 RP brass and experimenting with Paper Patched bullets in the .458 win mag and the 9.3x57 Mauser. It started with the .458 after expanding bullets were restricted and I do not have permission to buy them in .458 so I needed something else, tried some cast bullets but I had some 480 Grn pure lead bullets from loading for the 577/450 for the Swinburns pat sporting rifle I had, so I gave it a whirl just to see how it went :lol: . Again bullet availibilty problems at first with the 9.3 lead me to try the PP route using some cast .358" bullets.

Just now my reloading it restricted due to moving and lack of space here. Next year I intend to set up a nice shed for my gun cleaning and reloading :-)

mjbgalt · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2005, 07:01:35 AM »

Brit, don't bother arguing with him. He likes to fight and apparently doesn't want to be mature or add anything of worth to the discussion.

Those of us who are polite and honestly want to enjoy the site, got what you meant and understood it.

Thanks for sharing the information with us. I have a .30/30 on the way soon and I might want to use your info.

-Matt

arky65 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2005, 08:24:00 AM »

:eek: uh-oh

he has wandered on to this forum also. If you ignore him he will go away.

arky65

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2005, 09:25:23 AM »

Just some guy, I'm gonna give you two choices. Play by the rules meaning be nice or be gone. Your next post will tell me which direction you will be going.

You're welcome to stay but if you do it will be by following the rules. If you'd just as soon go no sleep will be lost over it. If you wish to stay and share your knowledge with us in a nice manner than will be fine too. No one comes in here and starts trying to be the bully on the block and lasts long.

The next move is yours. Make it wisely and you'll have demonstrated wisdom. Do it rashly and you'll have shown something much different.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2005, 09:46:10 AM »

justsomeguy-

i am doing my job and that has worth in and of itself. keeping jerks like you from ruining a great website.

i don't need to defend my actions. do you?

-Matt

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2005, 10:11:17 AM »

Just some guy faced a fork in the road. He took a wrong turn. He is no longer with us. Not sure where the path he took will lead him. Perhaps to AR as I think he would be a good fit there.

csam · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2005, 04:47:20 PM »

I am interested to see the 30-30 discussions lately. I have a Remington Model 8 semiauto that I picked up recently and I am going to start reloading for it. It shoots the 30 remington, which may as well be the 30-30 just more expensive! It doesn't "need" souping up or anything, because with iron sights and the areas I am hunting, it will fill the bill just fine with the factory 170 grn round noses I have scrounged up or the reloaded version thereof.

It is the tinkererer in me that want to take a 150 yard gun and turn it into a 250 yard gun. If it was a 250 yeard gun, I would want to make it into a 350 yard gun and so on. No real world practicality though. The new Hornady 30-30, if it proves to be as good as the publicity, would give the same benefit in a bolt gun as it would in that round shot from the lever. Only thing is that we didn't need to wait for Hornady to design the soft platic tip, we could reload with any of the spitzers if mag length is not a problem.

All the other factory 30-30 I have seen has the flat tip bullet, so it will be intersting to see the performance of the new rounds on game, especially to see if it really does show the balistic advantages in the field.

Slamfire · « **Reply #15 on:** December 03, 2005, 06:31:25 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter

One thing this has done is proved the falicy of the old weak case mantra. I still see the warning in Speers manual about 30-30 being weak brass. Huh brass is brass assuming it's the same composition so it's the same strength as the next piece.

There are more different brass ocmpositions than you can shake a stick at. I learned this shooting a .22 Hornet. There are the cases sold over the counter, and then there ar milspec cases. :wink:
Maybe the brass sold now is better'n when I was a youngster, but I wasn't impressed with the case life of hopped up loads.

Brithunter · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2005, 12:43:37 AM »

Hi All,

Oh slamfire I understand about brass being different types but cartridge brass is a specific composition or is supposed to be a certain make up which is diferent from say Naval brass. One thing which can vary much in the cases is the annealing

The reason for wanting more from the 30-30 is the stupid laws about using rifles for Deer in Scotland the factory 30-30 does not make it. The regulations asy that the ammunition must produce 2450 fps and 1700 ft lbs muzzle energy using a minimum 100 grn bullet and of .240" minimum calibre. Hence the search for better performance :wink:

30-30 was not a cartirdge I went out looking for but I found this beautiful rifle which was chambered for it and well I fell for the rifle brought it and started the search. If I had ordered the rifle to be made I would never have considered the 30-30 but now I am not so sure however I would certainly make sure the magazine was longer to allow the 150 grn spitzers to be used bu seating them out where they belong which is something I cannot do with my rifle :oops:

Slamfire · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2005, 10:56:44 AM »

In that case consider the Ackley wildcat, it significantly increases the powder capacity, allowing improved velocity, while keeping the pressures lower. Since the headspace is controlled by the rim, you don't need to set the barrel back when rechambering in order to use factory loads. There are several places on the net that rent reamers, so you don't have to buy one.

wild willy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2005, 01:12:38 PM »

Back when I started hunting late 60s the savage 340 was about the cheapest repeater you could buy I knew and hunted with a good many people that used them they worked pretty well but had some problems
if the shells coming out of the magazine were't at just the right angle they
would jam against the back of the barrel and be pushed in the case also
sometimes when loading they wouldn't cock the back of the bolt wouldn't be in the notch

Brithunter · « **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2005, 07:27:44 AM »

Hi Slamfire,

Thankyou but I will not be altering the rifle in any way :wink: the AI case might make for feeding problems or require the feed rails to be altered and I am not about to muck about with an expensive rifle which shoot wonderfully as it is

The action handles the pressure fine after all it was designed for such levels.

Some folks think I may be mad but I paid more for this rifle than any other I own. It's a one off rifle made to order with beautiful Walnut and deep blacking on a mirror polish, fitted with a Keplinger single set trigger and good iron sights for back up. Should anyhting happen to it I could not afford a replacement :oops:

victorcharlie · « **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2005, 08:09:54 AM »

Man Brit hunter, she sounds like a beauty. Maybe if you start now and lobby your officials you can get the law changed at some point in the future........Don't ever give up hope, just as sure as the law was created it can be changed........That's one of the things the NRA and others do for us.......From what I've read, the British government just keeps tightening things down.........Come to think of it, that's the reason they got throwed out over here!

If your not able to hunt deer with it, is there anything else you can hunt with it?

Brithunter · « **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:13:09 PM »

Hi Victorcharlie,

Oh I can hunt deer wiht it in England and Wales no problem with factory ammo too it's in Scotland where they put the 2450 fps minimum velocity on it which makes for troubles. But then with my handloads I am comfortably clear of their restriction so it's OK.

Further up the post is the photo of the Roe Doe and the Medwell rifle which I shot it with earlier this spring.

And yes the laws here don't make any sense really about firearms, they bann this tighten down on that and yet the armed crime keeps climbing faster and faster all the time. But the dumbos who make the laws cannot seem to see nor realise that bannign and restricting more is not the solution. dealing with the criminal elements is! :roll:

dodd3 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2005, 01:55:14 PM »

birthunter i had a tikka bolt gun a long time ago that was 30/30ai it fed well from the clip.i use to turn the rims down to fit the bolt face,did not wont to alter the bolt face to suit the 30/30 rim incase i wonted to get it chambered to .308 wich i did.but in 30/30 ai it was a real shooter right up there with the .308.i just got tired of having to turn the rims down every time i replaced brass.