partition

[whisper]

after the help I got on this forum and reading other post it looks like I´m going for the walnut hill press.
but I still have some more questions :oops:
I´m thinking of making a .375 bonded partition bullet.
anybody tried something like that?to much hassle?
and also on rce´s webpage it says that above .25 caliber, power swaging is the way to go.that is a bit expensive,at least for testing.

[talon]

You don't 'need' a powered press to make jacketed bullets under 50 cal. It helps, but there has to be an economic or significant physical advantage to spend the bucks. But, once you have the machine, you'll find that you'll be doing quite a bit of your work on it. ^^^ As to partitioned bullets there are at least two different methods: a short internal cored jacket that has been reversed with another core placed on top in the main jacket, and a  tube jacket that has been compressed in the middle with cores placed in both ends. Bonding the core(s) in these partitions may not be worth the effort. On the otherhand, core bonding a normal jacket will achieve about the same performance as a partition. It's a case where the different techniques ( bonding, partition) do just about the same thing... either enhances the terminal performance of a 'plain' bullet by 60%; both together may enhance this result by only 2%. One thing about core bonding is that you don't need any internal jackets or expensive tube crushing dies and punches.

[talon]

I forgot to add that I make ' crushed center' partitioned .416s with .065" walls and it takes 'H' dies to do this, but it can be done on the larger Corbin manual press ( that's work!). And I've a series of jacket end penetrator dies to make internal jackets for smaller caliber, thinner walled bonded partitioned bullets ( it helps to have a little hole in those internal jackets so that any trapped air can escape when heat is applied). However, I don't make make many partitioned bullets anymore once I found out how bonded core bullets perform.

[whisper]

I´ve heard/read  that bonded core bullets,like woodleigh etc,can expand too much.I thought of partitioning as a way to stop the expansion and not as a way to hold the core in place.
I will probably never need it where I am going to hunt,but it´s still interesting

[talon]

Expansion is a function of several factors. Those you have control over in making the bullet are: the nose type ( open tip, lead tip, FMJ, serrated, HP, and so on), ogive ( RN, FN, 4S, 8s, etc), jacket wall and heal thickness, and core alloy (pure lead for the smaller dies, but if you do have larger dies [ 'H' class for instance] BnH up to 15 can be considered). Then there is the matter how the core is held in the jacket.The weight of the bullet is a factor, too, but the first 3 elements generally will be your concern in controlling expansion I think. Then, there are those jackets that have a solid heal, some being about 1/3rd of the bullet's length. I don't believe they are available for us hobbyists yet, though. It's only the African big boned game that really requires tough bullets, and I'd recommend monoliths for that job. On this continent, 30-40 caliber  180-220 grain  core bonded RN or 6S lead tipped bullets are quite satisfactory on all except Brownies, and for them, especially for your back-up man, you'd want something bigger, but something that would expand a bunch, too.
 Remember, colorful, pretty, eyecatching fishing lures are for catching fishermen... all fish want is something moving that swims and profiles like their favorite chow. And, the bottom line with bullets, whether we want to admit it or not, and given the normal loadings for game, is where it hits the animal. However, I realize this truism doesn't do much to sell luers. Or bullets.

[whisper]

you are right,but my imagination gets the best of me sometimes.
guess I´ll just start off with an "ordinary" bullet and bond it.that´ll give me some experience with swaging and then I can try the more "exotic" designs later.

[Rick Teal]

Personally, I can't imagine a bullet expanding too much (especially a bonded bullet) once it does its primary job of entering the body cavity.  Once a bullet clears the body wall, I really don't care if it completely fragments.  When inside the animal, its expansion and fragmentation creates secondary and tertiary projectiles that cause massive damage to the internal organs causing rapid death.

When originally planning my bullet design, I was hoping for a bullet that would stop inside the target animal, but real life produced a bullet that has exited on all four deer I shot (with a non-bonded version of it) - however, the bullet has produced excellent internal results, so I consider the exit wound to be a small price to pay.

I think you'll fine yourself more than happy with the performance of any bonded bullets you might make.

[Drilling Man]

Personally i prefer a bullet to exit.  Not all shots are at a perfect angle, and i want the deeper penetration with the expansion.

  Rarely to you get much blood from an entrance wound, but you almost always do from an exit wound, at least that's been my experience.

  Drilling Man

[Rick Teal]

Drilling Man:

My philosophy has always been that you don't need tracking blood if the animal is laying where you shot it. :twisted:

A good bonded bullet expands as well as penetrates, which is the best of both worlds.  My design gives an initial expansion for shock and hopefully anchoring effect, then the tip remnant, minor core and thick jacket retards expansing for the necessary microseconds to get to the body cavity.  The normal expansion then resumes with a degree of retardation that doesn't entirely eliminate the fragmentation of the bullet.  For what I hunt, I believe that my bullets are the best of all worlds :wink: .  However, I'd like to put it into practice on a moose and bear, just to satisfy myself that I haven't designed a "Deer only" bullet.  Maybe this fall. :roll:

[Drilling Man]

Well, after liveing and hunting in Alaska for 25 years, i found that you just can't always get that "perfect" shot.  Once in a while something just goes wrong no matter how carefull you are.  (i've also hunted in Canada and now live in the lower forty eight)

  I've hunted and taken big bears, moose, sheep, caribou and much of the other game animials Alaska has to offer, and after many years of harvesting so many animials, i've come to the conclusion that a bullet does it's best job if it "expands well" and "exits".

  BTW, i designed, swaged and sold bonded core bullets by mail order and in my shop long before they became so available like they are now.  I no longer do so, but i still have everything to make them if i desire.

  To this day, the best bullet i've ever used for all around hunting are Nosler partitions, and that's what my rifles are loaded with 99% of the time.

  Here's some good reading on this very subject if your interested..

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=1173226&mpage=1&key=&#1173348

  Drilling Man

[Rick Teal]

I hunt the thick stuff in Ontario, and as far as I'm concerned the "Perfect Shot" doesn't exist.  I've taken deer, moose and bear from almost every conceivable angle - including through heavy bone and lengthwise - and have always found that a good expanding bullet of slightly heavy-for-calibre weight, that's not pushed ridiculously fast, does an excellent job on all these animals.

I'm actually surprised that this thread didn't elicit more comment, since I am flying in the face of conventional wisdom.  At some point I should put my theories on bullet performance and conventional wisdom down somewhere so I can append it to discussions like this.

By the way, I've only been swaging for six years, but I've been hunting and observing big game kills for something like 45 years.

[iiranger]

In his books, Mr. Corbin, Dave made a point that hit me in the face like a wet towel. Seat a part of the core in a second jacket that fits inside the main jacket (even has a table, of course he gets to sell another core seat die set, die & punch...) THEN seat the jacket reversed in the main jacket... IF you like you can use a flux and solder these too... "bonded" then seat the rest of the core on top and point form... Bit more work, but you have the virtues of the Nosler and other partition design, without the expense of the press that forces two holes, one in either end of a piece of copper wire, then seats lead in them... but you got to please yourself...