Conceal carry.... officer or commander?

[a_kayaker]

Well, I have not yet finished my long slide project, but I am already wanting to build another gun. This one I would like to use for conceal carry purposes.

I have been trying to decide on the officers or commander slide. I think the smaller slide would be nice in a CC gun.  Now I read in another post that shorter slides may have a problem cycling. I don't if this is true or not. What do you think? Anyone have any experience with either length?



 For the frame I plan on buying a 80% stainless and finishing it myself. I think it would a good project. I would like the whole piece to be stainless, I don't know how this factors in with the slide (if at all).

Eric

[Mikey]

Hay a_kayaker:  Got lots of experience with the Commander and would recommend that.  The question of recoil came up about the short Officers Model when they first came out and I'm not sure about the results BUT, I can tell ya this - what you save in weight or length comes back to you in recoil.  The difference in recoil between my aluminum frame Commander and my all steel Government Model is noticeable.  I can control my Commander without any problems but I think that if you were to reduce the length of the slide/barrel by an inch or so you would pay for it in recoil and muzzle blast.

One of the reasons, I think, that Colt came out with an all steel Commander, the Combat Commander, is because of the recoil in the lighter weight guns.  So, if you consider barrel length and recoil you might see the Officer's Model as either tough to control or recoil heavy.  Also, you can get heavy duty aftermarket springs for the Commander - I'm not certain if the Officer's Model has the same recoil spring set up or if it is a combination spring system for which an aftermarket replacement may not be availalbe.  

Just my 2 cents worth.  Mikey.

[a_kayaker]

Hey Mikey,


Thx for the reply. It sounds funny, but I really didn't give recoil a thought.  It does make perfect sense.

For a CC gun you would want to keep the sight on the target. I had thought of porting the barrel, but immediately dismissed that because I don't want muzzle blast in my face during a confrontation.

Maybe I could find a local shop that would let me shoot both models side by side.

[Grumpy]

:-) I own a short ported 1911. I would not buy another ported CCW firearm. Some people reduce their recoil with a titanium guide rod (?). Don't know how much it helps though.

[John Traveler]

The great Jeef Cooper conceeds that shortened slide M1911A1 pistols may indeed have cycling problems.  He wrote that a Commander-length pistol CAN be made completely reliable, but that it required greater attention to detail.

[Mikey]

John and a_kayaker:  I have a great deal of respect for the Col but I never had problems with my lightweight Commander functioning reliably.  That dang thing shoots just about any bullet I have loaded up for it as long as I make certain the loads will chamber properly.  It has never jammed or stovepiped with factory loads and it will function continuously and reliably with ball ammo, which is my carry preference.

To help keep recoil down a bit I installed a set of heavy duty 22lb Wolfe recoil springs.  The springs are tough but they have not impeded either functioning or reliability in any of my 1911s, including the lightweight Commander.

What the Commander does need is a beavertail grip safety to keep that small factory grip safety from eating up the web of your shooting hand.  Of course, to accompany that you may want another hammer, although I think the factory Commander hammer will work with the King's drop-in beavertail grip safety.  If not, better looking hammers are not very expensive.  If you don't like the trigger pull, get yourself a Chip McCormick trigger group - it is smooth and you will like what it does for your shooting.

And don't let anyone tell you the lightweight Commander frame won't hold up to continued use.  Mine has over 10K through it and I have known men who have made race guns and target pieces out of those and they just keep going.  

The Commander length and lightweight make for an excellent carry gun.  You should be happy with it.  Just DO NOT forget your earplugs.  Mikey.

[a_kayaker]

Well I went to a gunshop yesterday and found a Colt Defender Plus with a full sized frame and an officers length slide. I really liked the idea of a full size frame and it felt much better in m hand. This thing was in full stainless... grip safety and all.

Now I was thinking of building my CC officers .45, but the more I look at it I think I may buy the CC gun and then make another. I am by no means a gunsmith and would hate to think that my life my depend on my work.

Thx to you all for the input.

[Bob_K]

The issue of functional reliability is more towards the Officer's Model than the Commander Model.  The Officer's Model uses a different recoil system.  It has two recoils springs, one inside of the other.  The barrel bushing has an inside diameter that allows it to fit over the front of the enlarged chamber area.  These mods are driven by trying to accomodate recoil in a very short space.  It ends up being a very carefully balance of forces issue.  Although all 1911 designs are prone to short cycle if the shooter relaxes his grip and/or wrist, the Officer's is the most sensitive.  There are after market replacement springs and recoil spring plugs, if one want to replace the factory arrangement.

In terms of recoil, I find the Officer's Model not as bad as a light weight Commander.  I believe the 3.5" barrel loses so much velocity that recoil is less.

[Dana Hillen]

a_kayaker,
   I carry a Combat Commander and had an Officer's Model .45.The difference in recoil was negligible and the Officer's Model was functionally just as reliable as the Commander....PERFECT!
   I liked the O.M. even more than i like the Commander.......
                      regards
                               Dana

[Flatlander.54]

The one and only gun I consider for CC is the Combat Commander. I have owned a few of them and have never had any cycling problems with any of them.

[msmith]

There are reliability issues with an officers length barrel (4"). It has to do with the slide velocity. The slide weighs less and therefore the velocity is increased, this and a shorter slide means a shorter stroke it will make changing the timing of everything. The 4" guns can be reliable if you keep the gun in tune, ie, change the recoil spring every 500 rounds, keep the gun fairly clean, keep your mags clean and a good spring and follower in them. They are more sensitive to things like grip, and thumbs riding the slide too. A gorilla grip will increase slide velocity, especially with a weak recoil spring, riding the slide with your thumb will of course decrease slide velocity. Too much slide velocity will cause issues such as the ammo nosediving into the feedramp, and decrease velocity will of course cause failures to return to battery. Recoil is not bad with a short barreled gun especially if it has a cone barrel like the Wilson Combat CQB compact (see avatar). I have had a Colt compact, a Kimber compact and a Wilson compact. So far the Wilson has been the most reliable followed by the Kimber with Colt in the rear. The Colt did do much better with Wilson magazines. The general consenses is that a 41/4" barrel (commander length) is the shortest length to maintane utmost reliability.

Good luck,