Starting out.

[mdi]

I would like to try swaging my own bullets. I would be doing .357 and .44 pistol bullets and .223 Rem to start. I've checked out the two swaging equipment manufacturers on line (Corbin and RCE, only I ones can find) and have found dies and presses to be very expensive. I've looked at a few auction sites and fleabay but found little or no swaging equipment. Any suggestions on how to get started without dropping a couple grand on equipment?

Wanna-be swager,
Mike

[iiranger]

Look, you want a quality product, you are not going to produce it with junk equipment. At the same time, this "hobby" has been going on for decades and you can find, IF you hunt, used equipment that sells for about what it cost new and that is a lot less than what todays' price is. i). ch4d.com has dies for use in heavy presses at a somewhat lower cost. Pistol bullets mainly, although I suppose you could make/shoot .308 bullets in .308 rifles. ii). Mr. Blackmon of Louisana makes dies the quality of anyones at a somewhat lower price. He does not do computer web pages. You can get snail mail from directory in back of Gun Digest Annuals. iii). From there it is "HUNT!" You mention "fleabay"... they discontinued handling anything related to handguns, well except stocks and barrels and (look under TC/Encore/Contender...). Then there is Herters. Handled things probably made by CH in one of its many owner configurations.  You have to look where they screwed up by their twisted standards. A firm calling itself "Shooters Shack" has had dies and supplies for pistol bullet making  (again, in large reloading presses). Years ago a firm, now defunct, called Sports Flite, had the rimfire jacket equipment for use in large presses. .224. .6mm.  You may have heard of RCBS. Many don't recall that it stands for Rock Chucker Bullet Swage, the product that started it all. Mr. Huntington made dies for making rimfire jacket bullets. They are not common today. Hollywood Engineering of Hollywood Calif (surprise) has ?? And some are unhappy with service, delays, etc. You could send postcards to the producers listed in the Gun Digest Annual directory. Oh yes, if you buy something from Mr. Dave Corbin, he has sales and you get on the sale list and can buy at large discounts... but this is not boiling water. If you don't have the patience and commitment to get decent equipment and learn to use it... You will not be happy with your product, but then whose fault will that be. LUCK.

[mdi]

Mr. ii,

Look, I have reloaded off and on for about 18 years. I still use a single stage (CH, not junky) press because I prefer loading each round step by step (perfectionism?). I still use a balance scale to weigh every load because I like the repeatability/consistancy I get.  I don't use a turret or progressive because I'm not into mass production (patience & commitment?).

Don't know where you got the idea I buy "junk". I currently own reloading equipment from RCBS (Really Cute B-Ser, and yes I've heard of them), Lyman, CH, Hornady, and Lee. Not junk as far as I can tell. I turn out quality, consistant handloads (I'm capable of learning/perfecting complex tasks).

As for Ebay, they still allow pistol reloading dies, pistol bullet molds. and pistol bullet gas checks, etc. All you gotta do is HUNT!

Hollywood Engineering (I'm not surprised, are you?) has no on-line listing for bullet making equipment nor have I seen any ads in magazines. Can't locate "Shooter's Shack", even though I did HUNT.

I'm not very good at boiling water, but I have cast a few bullets for my .44s, and reloaded a few for my S&W 629, Dan Wesson 44H, T/C G2 .44 Mag., and my Puma .44, so I might be capable of learning how to squish some lead to form boolits.

I merely wanted info on getting started in precision bullet making, but then whose fault is that? So, thanks (?) for your post.

[talon]

 I've seen quite a bit of swaging stuff on eBay, but it's not there all the time.  If you are patient you'll get to see auctions and 'store front' sales of both rifle and pistol dies,swaging specific presses, jackets, core moulds, cutters, and so forth. But it costs money to get a decent set of jacketed bullet dies. Each is hand built and polished and hardened... that costs the toolmaker lots of time as well as up front cash for the high priced steel needed. That steel in it's bar form costs more per inch than a reloading die as it comes into his shop. As was pointed out, you usually can sell your swaging stuff, when you're tired of it (?) for almost as much as you paid for it, so it's 'cost' is nothing more than tying up cash for a few years. Also, as was pointed out, you never loose by buying the best tools you can afford as, in the long run, they are much less costly than "junk" ( agreed... that is a bad term. Actually, some of the less costly dies are a good buy IF they are used with care making bullets using lead/jackets they were designed for. However, more often than not you'll find them used and abused. Swaging bullets out of wheelweights or with .035" thick steel jackets would 'jug' one of these tool steel lightly hardened dies in a heartbeat. If you did the same operation with one of the Corbin 'M' dies it would crack it, too... but a cracked die can't be passed off as a used tool, while a jugged die can ( and are).
 To get to the point, if you want to swage lead pistol bullets using Reloading press dies I'm almost positive one of the auction sites will have what you want within the year.  The 2 die set that CH/4D makes is OK and I've seen them go for $50 or so. .243 Jacketed Rifle dies for  reloading press use may show up in the same places within 2 years. Always be sure that the seller knows you'll return them if they aren't as advertised.  Graybeard allows ( at least he has in the past) swaging stuff to be listed on this board, but very few of out buddies have listed anything as long as I can remember. Lastly, I reread irrangers item several times. I believe you may have mistook his intent. He's been swaging for so long, and has answered your type of question so many times, that he probably wanted to save you grief in picking the wrong way to go, and went about it perhaps to strongly.

[iiranger]

Thin skinned, aren't you. I get emails from ebay inviting me to review the Shooter's Shack's latest postings. I will see if I can find an address. I have seen their goods under swage or swaging many times.

#1). Actually if you talk with men trained as machinists you will learn as I did that die making is a standard trade thing and any "machine shop" in the yellow pages can furnish what you require. Now if you pay them for their time figuring things out --[development charges], it just might cost a bit more than if you go to an established business. At the same time, this is highly skilled, specialized work requiring specialized equipment without a potential for high volume, so the craftsman has to charge more and keeps costs down by NOT advertising much.

#2). I understand you lack of information. Approx. 25 years ago, pre internet, I began the same search. Best source I found was the directory in the back of Gun Digest Annuals. I think I sent out 8 or 10 postcards and received a variety of info. I think it was Roscach (sp??). They had carbide dies. One set was the price of a new VW Bug then. (Old style, not todays.). Much more than I cared to spend. In his writings, Mr. Corbin, Dave discusses the usefullness of "carbide dies." There is a big element of sales BS in them.

For whatever reasons, Dave Corbin is the person in the field who "talks alot." He has a couple dozen books and phamplets on his web site for your education, free. Read them. Download them. Etc. --Do your homework--  He has also written magazine articles. This public relations adds to the costs. At the same time, you can get the die set to make lead or half jacketed pistol  bullets using a reloading press for under $200.-. If this is too much for you... (??) His web site is quite "full" and if you do not search carefully... One person I referred for a lead pistol bullet, found the dies/press for making a .308 match grade bullet [--cost over $1,000.-] and fled, pissing and squealling, over the price. I can do very little for someone who chooses to remain ignorant. I sent them back to look for the <$200.- dies.

If you really search, you can find Nemi Engineering. They make top quality dies for making rifle bullets for competition in heavy reloading presses. Not free.

The top sources I know of, apart from your local machinists... [know anyone with a lathe in the basement???] Corbin, Dave. Corbins.com. Corbin, Richard, rceco.com. Mr. Larry (?) Blackmon. No web site I know of. And CH4D.com.

The pistol bullets you mention, either jacket, half jacket, plain base, or zinc ring base --dies in the $75.00 to $150.- range per caliber. You have to look. You have to decide. You have to pay. I think the set to make jackets out of .22 cases and bullets from same in a reloading press is up to around $300.-.

In my memory there have been others. Sports Flite I mentioned. Herters had some products. Geo Herter was long winded, entertaining, but sometimes quite right in all the fluff/hot air. Out of business couple decades but products on Ebay steadily.

I recall when Herters had a half jacket pistol bullet press with dies for $29.95. Not these days. Know a man who bought one with a friend. It broke promptly. Some suggest Herters was dealing in "2nds." And the "half jacketed" concept left some lead in contact with the bore and in warmer loads, "leaded". Badly.

I repeat the principle and I have seen it many times. Some couch potato thinks that if he drops a couple "twenties" he can make match grade bullets or hire a teegager on the dew or Sorry, NOOOoooo...  a) you must buy equipment of the quality you require. I assume if you were shooting benchrest, you would not be mentioning CH but rather Wilson... or Forester bushing dies... b). You must learn to use it. Frankly, your snotty/thin skinned response makes me wonder if you have the patience to do the research or learn to use the equipment.

If you read Mr. Corbin, I did, you will learn of Ted Smith. Of the Huntington dies that were the start of RCBS. Aston and Beisles? Mr. Sisk of TX. (Ray?) CH has been bought out several times I know of. Bair. Texan.  Joyce Hornady and Vern Speer got their start making bullets out of rimfire cases. Any of their stuff around? Got me. And, as I have indicated, any machinist can make good dies. Again, this is not shopping at the Wally World. You have to decide what you need, what you will pay, and how to use it. I recommend you begin with homework, Dave Corbins site(s), and see if you really want to proceed. Dave also takes questions by email. So does Richard. And they have used equipment sometimes.  Most helpful for those in a state of ignorance (as I was) and you seem to be. Years of reloading ammo means very little in the making of bullets.  I too have reloaded for many decades. 4 now??? I repeat... LUCK.

[iiranger]

I sent an inquiry to Shooter's Shack and the reply came back from [ Andy and Debbie Hill (kimberlt@dandy.net)] ... They have had the pictol bullet dies at prices slightly less than CH... luck.

[iiranger]

If you "bear with us old pharts" ... you might gain the benefit of our wisdom? Scars? experience?

The personal computer/internet is quite new to me. I learned to type on a manual (no electricity) typewriter. Later retrained on an electric typewriter. Key boarding... had to do that toooooooo

For my information and out of curiosity I went to ebay and put in "swaging." Down in the bottom listings "buy it now" I found no less than 6 items listed by Shooters Shack and the shack clearly identified. I don't know how you "hunted" but I am left to wonder... luck.