Author Topic: "O" ring- Barrel Float revisited. (Read 1244 times)

whitedogone · « **on:** January 18, 2005, 01:33:40 AM »

On another board that I visit daily the subjuct came up again. Now I was always under the impression that the problem was the contact between the barrel and the forearm. Not nessesarly... so claims Bill in PA.
Heres what we were discusing....

Bill said...
The problem with the forends is where it bears against the receiver when closed, trying to force the barrel forward and down. The easy solution is to relieve it. Use sandpaper and a dowell or a Dremmel tool with a sanding drum and give it enough clearence,when closed,you can pass a piece of paper between the receiver and forend. Yes it will seem loose when the action is open, but that doesn't matter. There isn't a way of "floating" since the forend is attached to the barrel. Installing an "O" ring masks the problem to some extent, but dosen't eliminate it.

WDO said...
I've never heard that one. As far as I know, the "O" ring thing is so that the fore-arm does not contact the barrel. I use a washer cut out of a coffee can lid. This way when you tighten it down it's always the same thickness. Unlike a regular "O" ring that deforms.

Bill said...
Well, after doing a few NEFs, 'bout 50 or so, I've learned a thing or three. I do more triggers then anything else, but always the first question asked is how to make them group better. Using a spacer, O ring or whatever does in fact help move the forend away from the barrel, but doesen't do anything for the binding between the receiver and barrel stud/screw. If you want to try something interesting, shoot it without the forend resting the receiver on the front bag. If it groups the same, the action/forend clearence is OK, if not ......

Then bill replyed...
Here is a pic of the area to check. Some show very heavy rub marks with the action closed. It can cause some very heavy pressure between the receiver and forend screw/stud, doing bad things to the barrel when its fired.

Interesting to say the least....just when I thought I did the deal all figured out. WDO

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2005, 01:49:06 AM »

Bob was over my place last night and made mention that the forearm on his 45-70 was tight to the point that you had to really pull it off to get it off. The solution was to open up the hole in the forearm that the barrel stub comes through. We used a dremel tool with the small sanding drum. It just fit up in there snug and a couple passes is all it took. Now you take the screw out and the forearm practically falls off in your hand. No more pressure between those 2 points in the picture IF that really is an issue.

Ian

Brett · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2005, 01:53:01 AM »

Maybe there is something to his theory. I bought a second hand .280 Handi that the previous owner had bedded the entire forearm from one end to the other on. And this gun is a shooter. I think it warrants further experimentation.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:19:26 AM »

It's so simple it makes sense!!! I like the relieved forearm fit that is subscribed to by "Bill in Pa" as Whitedogone mentions and in addittion I would if the affixed forearm is putting any unusual sideward or upward pressure on the barrel and either re attach it to relieve it in some manner, sanding, o-ring, or whats seems great is the thin flat plastic washer cut from a coffee can lid. I for one am going to try this approach.
In the interim it would be interesting for those of you that have guns that shoot very well or quite poorly is to check each of them and see what the forearm spacer fit is. Tight or loose. That should be evident by the stiffness or looseness when the action is opened and closed and any wear marks in the bluing on the front of the receiver where the forearm spacer rides/rubs. Thanks for any replies from those that check their guns and report....<><.... :grin:

jeff223 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:28:03 AM »

whitdogone,Bill is correct.if your forarm is fitted right it will fall off when you remove the forarm screw.you dont want any forward pressure pushing on the barrel stud or any pressure pushing on the frame.its just kind of there

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:52:57 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret

It's so simple it makes sense!!! I like the relieved forearm fit that is subscribed to by "Bill in Pa" as Whitedogone mentions and in addittion I would if the affixed forearm is putting any unusual sideward or upward pressure on the barrel and either re attach it to relieve it in some manner, sanding, o-ring, or whats seems great is the thin flat plastic washer cut from a coffee can lid. I for one am going to try this approach.
In the interim it would be interesting for those of you that have guns that shoot very well or quite poorly is to check each of them and see what the forearm spacer fit is. Tight or loose. That should be evident by the stiffness or looseness when the action is opened and closed and any wear marks in the bluing on the front of the receiver where the forearm spacer rides/rubs. Thanks for any replies from those that check their guns and report....<><.... :grin:

Well...Hogwash....my 30-06 Ultra Comp is like a new over&under shotgun on opening and it still shoots 1" groups with factory loads...my 25-06 forend is tight against the screw...it shoots even better groups with factory ammo...here's my take on it...

Every Handi I've seen has the barrel stud recessed notch area in the forend cut differently...some make cantact on 1 side...some...don't make contact at all...some(dam few) make good contact and actually fit close to perfect...using the o-ring allows the barrel stud to set evenly in the stud recess...and also floats the barrel up and allows it to move freely if it's going to...not all barrels warp sideways...some do especially the thinner ones...that's why it's important to site in... then allow the gun to go completely cold...and fire another round to be sure where it will strike...Bedding the recessed notch and 1" in front...and 1" behind the the recessed notch is the best way to bed the barrel...you can then relieve(free float) the barrel channel from the bedding up to the tip of the forearm...this gives solid contact where needed and still allows for any barrel movement without wood contact on the forearm...if your Handi still won't shoot try just the reverse...put a pressure tip 1" back from the muzzle end of the forearm..( small piece of aluminum foil folded a couple of times) and tightend the forearm down...ifire 3 shots from a cold barrel and check your group for any stringing...if this cures your problem..then either use the foil and make a tempoary pressure point...or use some acraglass from brownells and do it permenantly...not all Handi's problems are the same...

Mac

jeff223 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2005, 05:45:16 AM »

your right Mac.they are not all the same.just because one rifle shoots good one way doesnt mean another one is going to shoot good if fixed that way.my sons 223 shoots good with nothing ever done to it,no O ring trick or anything.i did all the tricks to mine and even had the barrel recrowned.if they shoot good leave thm alone and if not then start changing them some

MSP Ret · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2005, 05:51:29 AM »

Well great!!! There are our first couple of reports, any more?....<><.... :grin:

rickt300 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2005, 06:13:36 AM »

I sanded the curved part of the forearm so it doesn't touch the reciever and floated the forearm sort of, by making an oval out of bicycle tire tube aprox. an inch around, cut a hole in it and put it between the forearm and barrel. This is the most accurate 30-30 I have ever seen now. Before it would barely shoot into 3 inches.

Donaldo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2005, 06:35:37 AM »

I have done a number of things to mine. Some worked and some didn't. The one that did not work that I just knew would was to bed the fore arm to the barrel with silicone caulk. Just knew this simi-hard/soft stuff would be the thing. Nope.... if anything it shot worse. Am still trying things that deal with the attachment of the fore arm, which is where I think most of the problems are. HOWEVER... when you get in the mood to change something..... only change ONE thing then test it. Change two things and you don't know which it was,... or was it the combination of things. One variable at a time. I used to work in a testing laboratory, that was our mantra.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2005, 06:57:24 AM »

I also suggest to try putting some shim stock BEHIND the forearm spacer.and correct me if I'm wrong...but.. I do believe you can order the plastic forearm spacer in longer lenghts to do just this.....this is just the opposite of this gentelmens idea..it will do a couple of things...first..it will tighten up the barrel from any slop with the forearm...this will make it more stable in shooting it off a bench...and it will keep the barrel from just flopping open...I don't treat my side-by-sides or my over & unders this way...it does them no good to allow it to slam open...if the forearm is tighter to open...it acts more like a full 1 piece rifle stock with less lateral and fore and aft movement...and combine that with bedding the barrel and stud...there should be no-reason you can't shoot the rifle off the bench rest bags normally...with out resorting to shooting it below the hinge pin...

Mac

ebonitekid767 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2005, 11:27:24 AM »

ahhh yes,the good ol' ggvg board.Bill certainly knows his handi's and if i ever had a question to ask about them HE would be the man I would ask.Bill knowledge of handi's is equivalent to PH and his fox hunting.I plan on doing some little things to my Handi as well so this information helps me too.

Ebonitekid767 (AKA-brad in NY)