para-carry

[shooter]

anybody got any experience with the paraordinance para carry ?
                                                                   Shooter

[Ken in SENM]

Shooter, seems like the DAO Paras don't get much respect or notice anywhere. I, for one, am a big fan. I must tell you that I have not had personal experience with the smaller framed LDAs, but I hope that changes soon. I do own a Para 7.45 LDA (full size frame) which I really like. You must understand that I come from a background of many years of revolver usage and regular qualification/instruction in a law enforcement setting (a southwestern state police organization). My mind and body is totally programmed to fire a handgun in the double action mode, since there are very few times that cocking the hammer on a revolver is called for in a personal protection setting.

I always really liked the feel of a 1911 in my hand, and I always liked the idea of being able to carry extra ammo already "loaded" for hasty reloading. I never warmed up to the single action drill of the 1911 and cocked and locked carry, not because it is inherently unsafe, but because it requires more training and attention to detail, and because I could not have used one even if I had qualified to do so.  I needed to keep my head straight about what I carried and depended on every day. Most of us don't spend much time in the training or practicing mode for any of our handguns (it gets to be work!), and when the flag goes up, things need to be pretty simple. For example, I still forget sometimes to wipe off the safety on the Para frame, because my revolver training did not include that step. I like the safety on the Paras for several reasons, but I am still programming myself to take it off without concious thought.

All that said, I am really excited about the two newest models that were just announced, both of which are built on the smaller frames and have available tritium night sights. I am gonna have to figure out some way to have one. I don't want the smallest model, but the model that is just smaller than the full sized frame, with a 7 round capacity, would fill my need for a personal protection firearm that represents the best possible compromise between small enough to carry easily and large enough to be easily used, and chambered for an effective caliber.

I may be a voice crying in the wilderness, but the Para LDAs have to be the only really good alternative to a revolver. That is my very considered opinion, and it is actually based on something more than reading about it. I destest the first-shot-double-action, second-and-subsequent-shots-single action semi-autos with great passion. I would much rather have the 1911's single action than any of those. The Para is the best of both worlds (revolver and semi-auto) in my opinion. Nevertheless, you can take my opinion and a buck and get a cup of coffee most anywhere, except for those highbrow latte places!! And just think, it did not cost you (or anyone else) a single farthing!!

[shooter]

Ken,thanks for the input.I'm used to glocks ,only had one 1911 style pistol years ag.It was the AMT hardballer-didnt like it,had quality problems.I ma just check out that para carry at tax return time..
                                                                                                        Shooter :money:

[Mikey]

Shooter:  your experience with the AMT Hardballer is not uncommon to those particular 1911 clones and many folks were turned off by them as a result.  The Para-Ordinance handguns are of excellent quality but unless your background in firearms training is similar to that of Ken in SENM, which favors double action shooting, you may need to get accustomed to the Para's DAO trigger.  I handled one at a show and it is a smooth double action and you almost hardly know when the trigger will break - which is something a lot of the Para advocates really like.

Other folks who have trained with and used/use the straight 1911 seem to prefer the single action characteristics of that particular style of handgun.  There was also something about the para that was a bit strange, I think (if I can recall), regarding having to rack the slide back to chamber another round if you had a dud round or a misfire, whereas the 1911 could just be recocked and the hammer dropped again.  I'm not sure about this however and I would like to wait for comments from someone else more accustomed to that pistol.  Otherwise, they are accurate and apparently, quite reliable.

Ken in SENM has trained and follows a particular style of shooting, based on his experiences and training with the double action revolver.  Others much prefer the single action only capabilities of the cocked and locked 1911.  This is my preference and with only 34 years of consistent training and use with that style semi-auto pistol I am still quite comfortable with it.  Just remember, in the cocked and locked mode, the 1911 has two safeties engaged.  Neither a double action revolver or the para ordinance (I believe) have those safety features.

Hope this helps.  This is Mikey.

[Ken in SENM]

Mikey,
I certainly agree with your comments concerning the value of time spent in training and the resulting preferences for firearms. I maintain that there is not a  "bad" kind of firearm, since there are advocates and users of each type and style, and each type has those who like them and recommend them. There can be no question about the usefullness of the 1911 type handguns, since there are years and years of successful usage and experience for it. I think it is an excellent choice, but so is any other type IF a person is willing to spend the time and ammo to become proficient with it. I would also say that some types may be better suited to certain activities and situations, but whatever a person can use effectively under any circumstances will definitely do.

That being said, we all have our preferences. I think Glocks are as dependable as a hammer and an anvil, but I just don't care for the way they fit and feel in my hand. I would not hesitate to carry one to protect my life if that was what was available. I feel the same way about the 1911s, but I personally am not as confident with those when it comes to getting one into action under duress. Some time and training would no doubt cure that. In fact, I need that for the Para LDA as well.

Revolvers (for the most part) have no external safety of any type, as you state. Para LDAs have the same external safeties as does the 1911, which includes the grip safety and the safety lever mounted on the side of the slide in the usual place. There is also an internal hammer or firing pin block, if I am not mistaken. In any case, the drill with the Para LDA is pretty much the same as the 1911, with the difference in trigger pull and the fact that the Para does not "appear" to be carried cocked and locked when a round is chambered and it is ready to go. The trigger pull is indeed different from either the 1911 or Glocks or double action revolvers. It takes some getting used to, but it is definitely user friendly and is no more difficult to "learn" than the single action of the 1911.

I guess my biggest problem involves "deprogramming" myself from the revolver drill that is so ingrained, but the Para comes closest to fitting that modus operandi for me. They are definitely quality pieces of gear. The Para LD does require the slide to be racked if a misfire occurs in order to get a "new" hammer fall, but I maintain that it is just as easy to rack the slide as it is to cock the hammer again, with the advantage of dropping the hammer on a fresh round instead of the one that has already failed. I maintain that training should involve immediately racking the slide and chambering a fresh round anytime there is a  failure to fire in a semi auto, unless there is some sort of failure to feed or an obvious stovepipe condition that must be cleared first.  That is basically what happens when a misfire occurs in a revolver. The trigger is pulled again, which rolls up a fresh round for business.

We just need to be intimately familiar with the operation of whatever we choose to carry or have handy in the dark when the flag goes up, and be able to operate it when the pucker factor is maxed out, cause it definitely will be maxed out!!!!

[Mikey]

Hay Ken in Southeastern New Mexico:  Thank you for your response and for clarifying the workings or the Para-Ordinace pistols.  I just didn't have it right.

I also hope there are a lot more folks out there who read your response because it contains some excellent insights for those (of all of us) who need to continually train and remain both confident and familair with whatever it is we are going to grab ahold of in the dark.  

It is true that when the pressure starts to build and your max out your pucker power, you had best get ahold of something you know how to handle and that insight may hopefully make a lot of folks think more than once about the need for enhanced skills training.

By the way, how many cups of latte will a farthing buy and how many farthings make up a sandwich?  Mikey.

[Ken in SENM]

Well Mikey,

You caught me red-handed!! I wuz jist tryin' to sound like I wuz suh-fisty-kated!! I have no personal experience with latte, and don't have the faintest clue what a farthing is actually worth. As far as sandwiches go, I am only a couple of sandwiches shy of about 40 pounds overweight!!! What I suspect about farthings is that they ain't worth hardly nothin', and I would not guess several farthings would buy a decent sandwich. And what I hear about latte, you would have to have some shillings or pounds or sheckels or something a worth a lot more than a farthing to buy a latte. I ain't high classed enough to go into those latte joints anyway. Probably not old enough neither!!! I mostly get my sandwiches and cawfee at home! I would rather have a farthing than those sad things they sell at the Golden Arches.....

[Charlie Detroit]

A (British) penny (d) has 4 farthings (don't know the symbol; the others are: £=pound sterling, s=shilling [wow! it makes sense!], and d=penny [plural is "pence"]), but it all may be moot, at this time; the Brits have done something to their money in the last 20 years, and failed to inform me. It seems to be decimal (will the decay never cease?). The farthing may be extinct.

[Mikey]

Hay Charlie:  yu is mor so-fishy-kated den either Ken in SENM or me, ifin yu kno alla dat stuff an yu is right 'bout da Brits changin' stuff around - dey is gonna 'liminate bof de 'Farthing' as well as the public - 'it only costs ya a penny (pence to you I gather) loo.  With no farthing and no loo, you'd have to tie it in a knot, that's what you would do.  Those poor Brits, no guns, no law, no farthing, no loo.  Guess they're pee-ing all over themselves now, huh?  Mikey here.