Author Topic: Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP?  (Read 2600 times)

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Offline K2

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP?
« on: March 31, 2004, 06:38:09 AM »
It would need to be suitable for either a revolver or a single shot.  .22rf is out becasue it wont take a ram reliably.  What to get that will work with carbide dies?

Offline Nobade

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2004, 12:30:23 PM »
I'm a big fan of the 32 H&R mag. The TC barrels have a 1:10 twist and will handle up to a 220gr. cast bullet, Ruger revolvers max out at 115gr. or so. I use Lyman 311008 115gr. 32-20 bullets in my TC for field pistol/hunter pistol matches at 1000 fps, they will always take the rams and recoil is very light. Don't shoot the revolver in competition, but hitting the targets in practice is no problem either. I can load 155gr. bullets to 1500 fps and shoot standing big bore with it as well when I feel like it.
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."

Offline 54914

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2004, 07:56:40 PM »
32 H&R Mag for me.  Never rings a ram with 115 grain bullets, and low recoil.  It's hard to argue with 39x40 and 55x60 with open sights.
Larry H.

Offline ihmsakiwi

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32 H&R For me To.....
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2004, 09:23:00 PM »
Both in 10" T.C.
115 gr for FP and 165 gr RCBS for BB standing.
9.5 gr AR2205 (H4227 equiv) for the 165 gr. No recoil, no problems with rams.
Using 3.2 gr (ADI) AP70 with the 115gr (3118). Having indifferent luck of late. Would like to know what loads you use Nobade and Larry with the 115gr. Peter

Offline Nobade

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2004, 01:55:22 AM »
It's been a while, but my load notes say 9.0gr. WC 820 (surplus 30 M1 carbine ball powder, about the same as Accurate #9) and a mag primer under the RCBS 165 sil for big bore standing, and 3.0gr. Titegroup and Lyman 311008 115gr. or Lee 115gr. flatnose for field pistol. Basically the same results as you have found - it's a wonderful all round cartridge. Quite a bit more potent in the Contender than the published ballistics would indicate.
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."

Offline Lone Star

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2004, 03:47:47 PM »
The .30 Carbine worked very well for me in HP and BB.  A much stronger case than the .32-20 or .32H&R, uses carbide dies, cheap brass and has plenty of power for BB Rams.  I never had headspace issues and never trimmed a case either - used one barrel for several years of BB too.  My BB load was RL7 and the 165 RCBS for around 1450 fps and shoot-off accuracy.   Never went clean but had several 39s - ya gotta hit 'em to knock 'em over!   :roll:

Offline K2

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2004, 06:10:30 AM »
HI Lone Star

Since we repaired our Ram rail and re-educated our target setters the .30 carbine is very effective on our BB rams too!  All our target setters thought the rams MUST be set a full 1" forward of the "topple point" to be set correctly.  This meant that often they were being set 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch forward of the topple point in the rush to get the targets set and get back to the line.  This combined with rails that leaned forward towards the firing line meant that even heavy 7 IHMSA's and full house .308's were leaving rams!  I suspect this cost the club members over time.  We are rebuilding now that things are fixed.  

I have shot enough silhouette to have "rung" every animal in Big Bore, Small Bore and even AIR but most were due to partial hits at the edges.  Every Big Bore Pig and Ram I have hit well and did not fall was due to either the Rams being set full foot (not legal) or turned up old bullet hits on the rail that were never ground off before the rails were turned around, or the rails not being level.   I have never lost a small bore or AIR animal that hit with at least the full caliber of the bullet.  The problems not being addressed continue to keep folks shooting excessively heavy loads when they should not be needed if things were done properly.  Ringers should be a rarity.    
Quote from: Lone Star
The .30 Carbine worked very well for me in HP and BB.  A much stronger case than the .32-20 or .32H&R, uses carbide dies, cheap brass and has plenty of power for BB Rams.  I never had headspace issues and never trimmed a case either - used one barrel for several years of BB too.  My BB load was RL7 and the 165 RCBS for around 1450 fps and shoot-off accuracy.   Never went clean but had several 39s - ya gotta hit 'em to knock 'em over!   :roll:

Offline teamnelson

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30 Carbine
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2004, 10:30:53 AM »
Okay, you got me. 30 Carbine for FP and BB? IHMSA?

Just double checking to make sure I heard it correctly.

Do you reload, or use factory ammo?

This has enflamed my barrelitis. :)
held fast

Offline K2

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Re: 30 Carbine
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2004, 11:58:29 AM »
Hi TeamNelson

You bet!  I know you are new to the game but what you will find is that at many locations around the country 120 gr. 6.5's and 7mm are 100% on the Rams as are 30-20's and even the little 30 carbine using 125 spire points.  At other locations you will hear of 308's, and 240 grain .44's and such occasionally ringing a ram.  These are IHMSA or NRA sanctioned matches.    What is happening??  At some locations they set the rams correctly and take good care of the rails and animals.  At others they are not as careful.  I have shot at both types of match locations and know for a fact that what works 100% at some will not get you to 50% at others.  If a Ram is standing on the rails and it is not heavy set (more than one inch forward of its topple point) it is legal.  In other words if it is set on the rail 1/2 inch forward the topple point it is legally set.  Some folks think it must be set exactly 1 inch forward to be legal.  Those folks can't read well  :wink:

Here is another clue as to you rams being set heavy.  It is windy and they are not clamped but are not occasionally blowing down.  

Don't fret over the discrepencies however, just accept that they do exist.  
Quote from: TeamNelson
Okay, you got me. 30 Carbine for FP and BB? IHMSA?

Just double checking to make sure I heard it correctly.

Do you reload, or use factory ammo?

This has enflamed my barrelitis. :)

Offline fourarmed

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2004, 08:45:55 AM »
Is .30 carbine legal for IHMSA field pistol?

Offline B_Koes

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2004, 09:27:24 AM »
Quote from: fourarmed
Is .30 carbine legal for IHMSA field pistol?


Good point...  I never thought about it, but it isn't a straightwalled cartridge.  Cartridge diagrams I looked at say it tapers from .352" at the web to .331" at the mouth.  Given that the .30 Carbine is not specifically named in the list of exceptions, it would have to qualify on the basis of the stated rule which is something like...a straight-walled cartridge not longer than 1.29".  1 out of 2 isn't bad, but it would seem that it doesn't meet the criteria.  Then again, my opinion generally isn't worth the price you paid for it! :wink:

By the way, I honked at you on the way back from Higginsville...not some crazy road raged driver!  Well...maybe just a little crazy. :lol:

Offline mugs

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2004, 12:53:07 PM »
Yes the 30 carb. is legal. Have been shooting IHMSA field pistol & NRA hunter pistol with it for years. RCBS 30-115 4.5 grs. 231. Shoots about 1 1/2 " at 100.
Mugs

Offline K2

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2004, 05:53:13 AM »
Hi BK

The walls of the cartridge are straight on the .30 carbine, if not perfectly parallel.  If the rules said straight and parallel you would be correct but "parallel" is not a requirement.  Same for the .45-70 and many others, even the .44 mag has a bit of taper though not much.  The walls of a bottle neck cartridge are not straight but have a two bends in them.  cartridges such as the .45ACP and 9mmParabellum, 10mm, 40S&W are also legal.  By the way the .30 carbine is an excellent choice for the game though overshadowed by the success of the .22 hornet.  The 25-20 was approved a few years ago but has not caught on yet.    
Quote from: B_Koes
Quote from: fourarmed
Is .30 carbine legal for IHMSA field pistol?


Good point...  I never thought about it, but it isn't a straightwalled cartridge.  Cartridge diagrams I looked at say it tapers from .352" at the web to .331" at the mouth.  Given that the .30 Carbine is not specifically named in the list of exceptions, it would have to qualify on the basis of the stated rule which is something like...a straight-walled cartridge not longer than 1.29".  1 out of 2 isn't bad, but it would seem that it doesn't meet the criteria.  Then again, my opinion generally isn't worth the price you paid for it! :wink:

By the way, I honked at you on the way back from Higginsville...not some crazy road raged driver!  Well...maybe just a little crazy. :lol:

Offline B_Koes

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2004, 08:30:26 AM »
Quote from: akihmsa
Hi BK

The walls of the cartridge are straight on the .30 carbine, if not perfectly parallel.  If the rules said straight and parallel you would be correct but "parallel" is not a requirement.


OK...good point.  That's what happens when rules get involved...you need friggen lawyers to get involved so they can determine what the statement is really supposed to say! ;)  I guess it's back to geometry class to do some remedial work for me.  :)

As for the "traditional" pistol cartridges I looked at (.357 & .44) both drawings had the same measurement at the head and mouth of the case.  Like I said, my opinion generally isn't worth much! :)

Offline K2

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2004, 11:38:51 AM »
Hi BK

I have seen both the .357 and the .44 listed both ways with a .001 taper being most common.  Either way its those bends and dips (bottle necks) that were/are either prohibited or needing special approval to play.  

On words check out the difference between arms and weapons for an eye opener.  We have a right to keep and bear arms, but most places require license for weapons, especially CCW.  

Oh well have fun and shoot consistently as opposed to straight!  :-D  
Quote from: B_Koes
Quote from: akihmsa
Hi BK

The walls of the cartridge are straight on the .30 carbine, if not perfectly parallel.  If the rules said straight and parallel you would be correct but "parallel" is not a requirement.


OK...good point.  That's what happens when rules get involved...you need friggen lawyers to get involved so they can determine what the statement is really supposed to say! ;)  I guess it's back to geometry class to do some remedial work for me.  :)

As for the "traditional" pistol cartridges I looked at (.357 & .44) both drawings had the same measurement at the head and mouth of the case.  Like I said, my opinion generally isn't worth much! :)

Offline Pookee

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2004, 03:46:14 AM »
Why was the .30 Carbine removed from the rules?
(I remember seeing it in an older revision of the rules)
The rules say "straight wall pistol cartridge".
.30 Carbine is not pistol.
So shouldn't it be named specifically in the rules?
In fact it seema alot of cartridges were removed from the latest rules.

Offline IHMSA80x80

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2004, 01:53:35 AM »
As far as I know, he .30 Carbine is still legal. It is a pistol round, being chambered in the Ruger Blackhawk and AMT Auto-Mag, and perhaps others I can't recall at this time. Go ahead and use it, it's a nice round and pleasant to shoot.

Offline K2

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2004, 07:20:24 AM »
Hi Pookee  :D

While it was not originally a pistol round it was chambered in pistols many years before IHMSA began.  At least it is a straight walled cartridge, and has no real advantage over the 32 H&R and what should be the most popular round the .357 mag/.38 special.  Currently the bottle necks rule the game and that in my not so humble opinion lead to its early failure to attract much in the way of participation.  Silhouette needs more participation than the paper shooting sports because of the costs involved with the steel both in aquiring and in maintence and setting up the match.  By going for odd ball cartridges that have a big advantage over the stand pistola cartridges popularity was sacrificed at the alter of better scores.  History shows that better scores do not keep matches alive, participation does.  
Quote from: Pookee
Why was the .30 Carbine removed from the rules?
(I remember seeing it in an older revision of the rules)
The rules say "straight wall pistol cartridge".
.30 Carbine is not pistol.
So shouldn't it be named specifically in the rules?
In fact it seema alot of cartridges were removed from the latest rules.

Offline Hammer47

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IMHO
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2004, 01:45:34 PM »
In IHMSA Field Pistol there is 22 Hornet and then there is everything else.  Regards...g

Offline K2

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Re: IMHO
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2004, 05:40:11 AM »
HI Hammer

Last we checked the .22 Hornet was still a bottle neck cartridge not straight wall.  It is indeed the king of IHMSA FP but is 1.4" in length and bottle necked.  The original rules were for 1.29" max case length and straight wall, pistol cartridge.  
Quote from: Hammer47
In IHMSA Field Pistol there is 22 Hornet and then there is everything else.  Regards...g

Offline Hammer47

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2004, 01:34:16 PM »
AS you say, the Hornet is legal and obviously the best choice.  What is your point?

Offline K2

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Best straight walled cartridge for HP or FP
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2004, 07:59:24 AM »
The question was what was the best straight walled cartridge for the game.  Since the hornet isn't straight walled your answer is non responsive to the orginal question.  
Quote from: Hammer47
AS you say, the Hornet is legal and obviously the best choice.  What is your point?