Author Topic: replacement Rem 700 is 9MOA to the left (Read 858 times)

bluebayou · « **on:** December 20, 2004, 11:59:19 AM »

I had problems with my ADL Synthetic. Remington agreed and replaced the barrel and the receiver (I had voided the warranty on the trigger group by lightening voided the warranty on the stock by sanding it). I got the replacement from Remington today. When I bolted it in I noticed that the barrel was rubbing into the left side of the barrel channel. When I boresighted it at 50 yards it was 9 inches to the left. At 100 yards that is 18 inches to the left. (I had previously recentered the reticle on my scope)

I am pretty disappointed with the ADL line and Remington in general right now. The factory invoice says that the barrel/receiver was replace for "rough/miscut/damaged" rifling. I was glad to see that something was wrong with the rifle originally. I had a frustrating year trying to get consistent groups. Since this was my first centerfire rifle I didn't know much about what I was doing. On the new rifle, the lands and grooves are clearly visible and appear cut at 90 degree angles. The old rifle had much "duller" rifling. The new rifle also has visible rifling at the crown.

I guess my questions are:
1. Should I accept the rifle as is? It did shoot 1" groups with Fed 165's, Match 168's and Black Hills 168's.
2. Will Burris Signature Zee rings offset the misaligned barrel? I am not comfortable with shooting at 72 clicks of windage.

My gut tells me to return the rifle again.
I have changed my mind on the aftermarket stock. I don't want to put anymore money into this. I am thinking put a cheaper scope on the gun with offset rings and moving on to a different model/brand.

bluebayou · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2004, 12:46:53 PM »

Okay, I messed up in the title. It should read "Replacement Rem 700 is 18 MOA to the left"

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2004, 04:33:09 PM »

Yup that's exactly what the Signature rings and offset inserts are for. You can get way more adjustment than that from them. In fact in a really worst case scenario I've moved POI over 12" at 25 yards using them so 18" at 100 yards is no biggie at all. Is that with your scope optically centered? If so even moving the scope to do it is no concern. Most have at least 45"-50" of movement at 100 yards. That's only 4.5" at 25 yards and I find many guns require that much scope adjustment. I do not consider that a concern at all. You have no further basis for complaint on that rifle in my opinion. Just shoot it.

bluebayou · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2004, 05:37:58 PM »

Well, I have taken your word for it quite a few times. Honestly,I can't complain now about the groups. 1 MOA is 1 MOA. I was pretty hot when I posted this the first time. I just needed to know how out of the norm the 18" is (but I am not excusing sloppy craftmanship). If the Burris rings will fix it then I am still in business. It is still more than enough accurate for a hunting rifle. I know that you have had quite a few Remingtons so thanks for the quick response.

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2004, 11:23:25 PM »

Again I say that when first mounting a scope on a new rifle it is not that uncommon to be 18 MOA out. It's really not a big deal. It's even within the range I allow scopes to take care of without the Burris Offset rings. I'd guess a 5 offset in either ring should do fine if you just gotta tho. A ten at most will fix you right up.

Did you make sure your scope was optically centered? Do this by clicking it all the way to one end of adjustment range. Then click it all the way to other end counting clicks. Now go back half as many clicks. It is now optically centered. Do this on both turrets and the scope will be fully optically centered. If the scope is NIB it should have come that way from the factory.

I'm a firm believer in not using up all the adjustment in a scope unless it is absolutely necessary. I like them at least reasonably close to optical center. But honestly I'd not worry in the least about only 18MOA off optical center in a scope. Now when it gets to 30-40 MOA I don't like that. Most will have over 40 MOA of adjustment and some have as much as 60 MOA.

Still as I've often said that's what is the beauty of the Burris Signature ring and offset inserts. Just slide in the right pair and it all comes back to optical center of scope.

Any sporter weight gun that shoots 1" groups is a keeper for hunting. I like to see sub MOA groups as much as anyone but if one keeps them all inside of 1.25" to 1.5" at 100 yards it's mighty fine for hunting use.

Donaldo · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2004, 05:35:23 AM »

Should have bought a Savage......... :wink:

Big Paulie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2004, 05:53:26 AM »

Gosh, I don't mean to pile on here. But I have been shooting rifles for 35 years, and I never considered it unusual, when sighting in a new rifle, to see it shooting 12 inches or more, right or left, at 50 yards. A few times, it wouldn't even touch paper at 50 yards.

In the beginning, I had trouble making the windage adjustments, because I was using low end Weaver and low end Redfield scopes. There just wasn't enough adjustment in the scopes. I switched to Leupold scopes, and never had another problem. I just crank that windage over as far as it needs to go, sight it in, and shoot it. I never even thought about whether there was a defect in the rifle??? I've also got to admit that I have never heard of or considered using offset scope rings. It is simply not necessary.

I know that Remington quality has fallen greatly over the last 10 years, but if you have a rifle that you can sight to zero with a good quality scope, and get one inch groups, then I think you've got a good rifle.

You mentioned that the stock is now touching on one side of the barrel. If the windage issue really bothers you, then you might consider fixing this, by simply gently sanding the inside of the barrel channel of the stock, using medium sandpaper wrapped around a round cylinder (like a magic marker), until it doesn't touch the barrel any longer. (Create enough space so that a dollar bill, folded in half, will easily slide in the space). This may relieve some lateral pressure on the barrel, that is creating the windage issue you mentioned.

My advice, however, based on 35 years of messing things up, is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. As long as your rifle in current condition will consistently group 5 shots (one minute apart) into 1.5 inches, and doesn't suddenly open up dramatically after 3 shots or so, I would leave it alone. Otherwise, instead of a nice shooting rifle, you will have a "Project" on your hands.

Just my opinions.

Big Paulie

bluebayou · « **Reply #7 on:** December 21, 2004, 01:14:15 PM »

Amen to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I got in over my head with this stock once before. It shoots well. I will leave it as is.

I had already centered the reticle on the scope. I figure if I change rings or guns then I should start fresh as it were.

I really like getting the advice of experienced people.

KYsquirrelsniper · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2004, 07:27:36 PM »

I certainly never have considered it to be "normal" for an optically centered scope being off by 18" at 100yds :eek:.

To me that means there's some serious action/barrel misalignment, the holes in the receiver are drilled off center or there's a problem with the ring alignment. I generally bolt on the base, rings and scope and the windage "should" be within at least 6-7" at 100yds. Of course it sometimes doesn't work out that way, but it's usually the result of one the above mentioned problems.

The stock firmly pressing on one side of the barrel tells me it's likely an action/barrel alignment issue, but of course there's a possibility that the stock just isn't within spec.

Now, would I send it back? No, probably not since it's shooting 1" groups, as you might get one where everything lined up but wouldn't shoot worth a crap. In this type of situation, Burris Signature rings and offset inserts are your friend :wink:

Nobade · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2004, 03:00:41 AM »

This is why when I blueprint a Remington action that after everything is cut so it's straight I jig it up in the mill on center and recut the scope base screw holes to 8-40. Most of the time this will clean up the factory holes, but sometimes they are so far off more drastic measures are called for. Once this is done and the scope base is mounted straight with the collimater the scope is optically centered. As for the factory plastic stocks, I guess they give the action something to sit in on the dealer's rack, but once they are replaced with a real one that is properly bedded you just won't believe the difference. It's really nice to have a rifle that will shoot to where you expect it to everytime you take it out!