long range accurecy????

[buckslayer]

has anyone shot any big game caliber out to 400-450 yds from a handi or a ultra??? i am seriously thinking about a stainless/laminate .270 win or a ultra  blued/laminate 25-06. both calibers have plenty of energy and volocity out to 500 yds for white-tail and mule deer. the only thing i'm woried about is the wind drift of the 25-06 out to 400 yds. what caliber/gun would y'all pick for long range deer huntin'??? thanks alot!!!!!!
later buckslayer :wink:

[handirifle]

Buckslayer,
I'm not sure about the 25-06 on deer at 500.  It's not like you're going after a groundhog at that range.  I think that light bullet may have run out of steam.  Maybe someone that has done it and can correct me but it seems like a 120gr bullet would be kinda weak.  There are many here that hesitate using a 243 at 200 and it would be way more effective than a 25-06 at 500.

I'd go 270 minimum, if it were me, and  with about a 140gr or heavier bullet.  The heavier bullets will drop a bit more but carry a lot more energy at that range.

Here are some data right off the Remington site.  I compared the 243, 25-06 and 270.  According to their data even the 270 is marginal at 500, if you use the 1000ftlbs of energy standard for deer.

Listed is the heaviest bullets available from rem for each caliber except the 270
The 243 is 100gr
The 25-06 is 115gr
and the 270 at 140gr

Velocity
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 100 PSP CLU 2960 2709 2471 2246 2033 1832
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 115 PSP CLU 3000 2751 2516 2293 2081 1881
Premier Core-Lokt UltraC 140 PSP CLU 2925 2667 2424 2193 1975 1771


Energy
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 100 PSP CLU 1945 1629 1356 1120 917 745
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 115 PSP CLU 2298 1933 1616 1342 1106 903
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 140 PSP CLU 2659 2211 1826 1495 1212 975


Now I compared the 270, 308, and 30-06
I used the 150gr for the 270
The 165grBT with the 308
and the 165gr BT with the 30-06

Velocity
Remington Express 150 SP CL 2850 2504 2183 1886 1618 1385
Premier AccuTip 165 ABT 2700 2501 2311 2129 1956 1792
Premier AccuTipC 165 ABT 2800 2597 2403 2217 2039 1870


Energy
Remington Express 150 SP CL 2705 2087 1587 1185 872 639
Premier AccuTip 165 ABT 2670 2292 1957 1661 1401 1176
Premier AccuTip 165 ABT 2872 2470 2115 1800 1523 1281


This is using the Swift bullet in the 270, it shows the best numbers but still a little light for 500.

Velocity
Premier Safari Grade 140 SAPSP 2925 2652 2394 2152 1923 1711

Energy
Premier Safari Grade 140 SAPSP 2659 2186 1782 1439 1150 910

Sorry for the long post but this gives about the best apples to apples comparison you can get.

The 270 and 25-06 according to these numbers top out at about 400, with the 243 at about 300.  Now keep in mind these are factory loads and some bullets might perform better than others but I don't think there will be a lot of variation, without a lot of velocity increase.

Hope this helped.

[mitchell]

if i remember you just got your first rifle just a little bit ago( a 280rem which is the best long range deer handi made) but you need to have a lot of practis to take deer at extended range. and i'm not going to get in to that(my arm is hurting me too much to be setting here muchless typing). to put it simple handis are not made for long range deer hunting. if you really want to get into it go get a good remmy or savage bolt gun in 300 win or 338win have it worked over by a smith ,START RELOADING, and spend every waking minuet at the bench at the range. then if you really must hunt deer at that range buy a dog so he can help you track your deer that go 500 yards after they have been shot.

[handirifle]

mitchel those were my thoughts too but I was afraid to say them.  Hope you feel better soon

[Brett]

I don't know what the terrain is like where you hunt Buckslayer but if a deer is 400 or 450 yards away where I live he is most likely on the other side of the woods and/or the hill and I can't even see him let alone get a good shot at him.  :lol:  Even with all the bean fields around here a 300 yrd shot would be a looooooooong shot.

[gstanfield]

I'm not trying to start a debate here, but I do know of a guy in Sheridan, WY that has killed many elk over the years with a 25-06 and about a dozen of them were past 400yds. He has never had to fire twice and has never lost an animal. He has also killed close to a hundred deer with this round with the same results. I'd not for a minute think a 25-06 is too weak for deer, it just depends on putting the bullet where it is supposed to go. BTW, he is not shooting a handi,I just wanted to throw some light on the 25-06.

George

[handirifle]

I have no experience with the 25 just was going by the rule of thumb 1000ft lbs considered the latest minimum.

[Mac11700]

The 280 has the capability of doing this,so does the 30-06 and the 308...but..... do you have a rock solid rest to shoot off of...and do you have a dead still hold..do you know how to dope the wind if any to compinsate for wind drift...do you have good enough optics to have a parallax free site picture at that distance... can you accuratly judge distances that far...or do you own a lazer range finder...if you do own one...have you verified if it is accurate...are you and  your gun capable of shooting a 4" group at 500 yards,are you using a bullet that will  expand at that range...have you been able to practice at that range and have confidence in your shooting ability to cleanly harvest game at that distance??

These are the questions you should ask yourself...and if you honestly answer no to any of them...don't try it...the animals deserve better.


I'm not trying to blast you here...but I am trying to show you there is a-lot more to cleanly harvesting game at extended ranges....it's not like punching holes in a paper target....animals move...and deer can drop a full body height in less than a 1/10th of a second...this is why you need a super accurate gun...and 6-10 inch groups at that distance don't cut it....can you shoot accurately at those distances with your set up...if you can...then the choice is yours if you really want to....I can see 250-350 yards if in the wide open with no chance to get any closer...but I've crawled on my belly very slowly thru all kinds of thorns and thickets to get closer...to close the gap...and when you do...the odds go up in your favor...for a cleaner shot......


Mac

[lik2hunt]

Well said Mac and Mitchell.......and all the others too.

buck.....don't even contemplate trying this shot on a real deer unless you have all the variables aforementioned covered.....the majestic game you seek does deserve it.

[Cottonwood]

The 280 has the capability of doing this,so does the 30-06 and the 308...but..... do you have a rock solid rest to shoot off of...and do you have a dead still hold..do you know how to dope the wind if any to compinsate for wind drift...do you have good enough optics to have a parallax free site picture at that distance... can you accuratly judge distances that far...or do you own a lazer range finder...if you do own one...have you verified if it is accurate...are you and  your gun capable of shooting a 4" group at 500 yards,are you using a bullet that will  expand at that range...have you been able to practice at that range and have confidence in your shooting ability to cleanly harvest game at that distance??

These are the questions you should ask yourself...and if you honestly answer no to any of them...don't try it...the animals deserve better.


I'm not trying to blast you here...but I am trying to show you there is a-lot more to cleanly harvesting game at extended ranges....it's not like punching holes in a paper target....animals move...and deer can drop a full body height in less than a 1/10th of a second...this is why you need a super accurate gun...and 6-10 inch groups at that distance don't cut it....can you shoot accurately at those distances with your set up...if you can...then the choice is yours if you really want to....I can see 250-350 yards if in the wide open with no chance to get any closer...but I've crawled on my belly very slowly thru all kinds of thorns and thickets to get closer...to close the gap...and when you do...the odds go up in your favor...for a cleaner shot......


Mac

Mac I agree 100% as well, good response  

[Mac11700]

I feel I need to clarify something to Buckslayer here...please don't think I'm being judgemental of you are your ability to shoot...I just feel that with all the talk of longrange hunting  I needed to say something.

I do know that there are situations where you cannot get anycloser to your quarry...like when hunting out west for antelope or deer or elk,or up on the tundra for barren ground caribou... or up in the mountains for sheep and goats...these are the types of hunting situations where you need the flatest shooting highest velocity tack driver you can have......I have places I can hunt here in the midwest where shots ...can...be very long...and 1 place where shots ...can...be over 500 yards...IF...I elected to attempt the shot...


We all have different hunting  styles...some like them up close...others don't...and we can't judge others in the way they rationalize how they elect to hunt...To each His Own ...in this regaurd...so...please don't think that I am judging you on how you hunt.....on the contrary...anything but that...I've been on some of the other forums where they routinely shoot at game from 500 yards and out and they consider anything under 500 yards close...these guys are also using match bullets to take there game...this certainly isn't my style...nor will it ever be,and I certainly don't agree with their hunting habits...but I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot at 500 yards provided I can honestly answer...YES...to all of the questions I asked you previously....


Mac

[scruffy]

Buck, what size of groups are you getting at 500 yards?

later,
scruffy

[safetysheriff]

has anyone shot any big game caliber out to 400-450 yds from a handi or a ultra??? i am seriously thinking about a stainless/laminate .270 win or a ultra  blued/laminate 25-06. both calibers have plenty of energy and volocity out to 500 yds for white-tail and mule deer. the only thing i'm woried about is the wind drift of the 25-06 out to 400 yds. what caliber/gun would y'all pick for long range deer huntin'??? thanks alot!!!!!!
later buckslayer :wink:

I love the .270 but don't believe it's a genuine BIG BUCK caliber at 500 yds; and the .25-06 is even less so!       The .25-06 doesn't have a proper bullet for BIG BUCKS at 500 yds; and the .270 barely carries enough velocity to reliably expand a bullet at 500 yds.    My honest, sincere opinion if you're hunting on public land where someone else might put a tag on your deer!     The .270 will actually do it, and on paper the .25-06 will do it.    But the margin for error is very small -- especially with the .25 caliber.  

It takes a 115 gr' Nosler Partition at 2950 fps approx'   .477 seconds to reach 400 yds.     The wind drift is tough at that distance on a bad weather day.  

For 400 to 500 yard shots on BIG, RECORD-BOOK BUCKS I'd go with a 26" barreled .280 if using a Handi'.    I'd use a  'tipped' bullet and load it heavy.    Oh, and maybe get David Tubb to shoot the rifle for you!   Tubb just won the 1000 yd' NRA championship at Camp Perry last month.

Take care.

SS'

[buckslayer]

thanks y'all, funny how thing change in 12 post.i said has any one shot there handi or ultra out to 400 yds NOT 500 yds. did i say i'm shooting deer??? NO.  the 25-06 has 1155 ft/lbs at 500 yds plenty for deer IF i was shooting deer. the .270 has has plenty of volocity and energy at 500 if i was shooting at 500 yds-i'm not.
later buckslayer :wink: [/quote]

[mitchell]

has anyone shot any big game caliber out to 400-450 yds from a handi or a ultra??? i am seriously thinking about a stainless/laminate .270 win or a ultra  blued/laminate 25-06. both calibers have plenty of energy and volocity out to 500 yds for white-tail and mule deer. the only thing i'm woried about is the wind drift of the 25-06 out to 400 yds. what caliber/gun would y'all pick for long range deer huntin'??? thanks alot!!!!!!
later buckslayer :wink:

umm i don't mean to call you a fibber BUT  you said in your first post  that you were "seriously thinking about a stainless/laminate .270 win or a ultra  blued/laminate 25-06." and then in saying "both calibers have plenty of energy and volocity out to 500 yds for white-tail and mule deer. the only thing i'm woried about is the wind drift of the 25-06 out to 400 yds"this implies that you are wanting to shoot 400 and 500 yard shots. " the only thing i'm woried about is the wind drift of the 25-06 out to 400 yds "  why would you worry about wind drift if you were not going to take the shot???

[mitchell]

hey buckslayer here is one  more quote that you said on the small bore forum    

"will the 25/06 do good out to 400 yds with winchester ballistic silver tip 115 gr for deer??? will the wind drift be bad ??
thanks!!!!!!
later  buckslayer "

[scruffy]

did i say i'm shooting deer??? NO.  

both calibers have plenty of energy and volocity out to 500 yds for white-tail and mule deer. the only thing i'm woried about is the wind drift of the 25-06 out to 400 yds. what caliber/gun would y'all pick for long range deer huntin'??? thanks alot!!!!!!
later buckslayer :wink:

Um, kind of, you did say you were deer hunting when you asked "what caliber/gun would y'all pick for long range deer huntin'???"

But did you actually say you were shooting deer, no, I agree, you didn't say that.  You might be just shooting at them.   And the 25-06 should have enough wind drift on a windy day to miss one.  So you should be good to go at just shooting at them and not worry about hitting a deer when just holding over it.  :wink:

Sorry Buck, couldn't resist.  

later,
scruffy

[safetysheriff]

thanks y'all, funny how thing change in 12 post.i said has any one shot there handi or ultra out to 400 yds NOT 500 yds. did i say i'm shooting deer??? NO.  the 25-06 has 1155 ft/lbs at 500 yds plenty for deer IF i was shooting deer. the .270 has has plenty of volocity and energy at 500 if i was shooting at 500 yds-i'm not.
later buckslayer :wink:

[/quote]


You're going the LONG WAY AROUND THE BARN, then, if it's something elseyou wanted to ask.....

Good luck.    You're going to need it.