Author Topic: Rifle Novice ? (Read 1361 times)

MDTrestand · « **on:** June 25, 2004, 08:49:43 AM »

I have been a hunter all my life and I grew up shooting guns and such. Quite a few years back I picked up a bow and put down my rifles and forgot a lot that I once knew.
This year I am going on a Moose/Caribou hunt in Newfoundland and wanted to use a rifle. The only problem is that the only rifle I have is a 30-30. I am going to get a new rifle but if some experience rifle shooters can give me some direction it will be appreciated. What brand of rifle is recommended, caliber and type and grain of bullet? In the future I would only use it for Caribou and whitetail sized game. Plus, I wouldn't mind shooting some groundhogs with it as well. With everything in mind what is everyone's recommendation.

jamie · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2004, 09:41:40 AM »

My personal opinion is a .300 win mag with 200-220 grn bullets for your moose. As far as rifles go, ther are alot of good ones on the market today and you won't have to spend alot of money (relatively speaking). It seems that for accuracy the Savage, Sako or Tikka are the way to go. It seems the big 3 (Remington, Winchester and Ruger have let quality slide some).

Lawdog · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2004, 10:02:27 AM »

MDTrestand,

Quote

In the future I would only use it for Caribou and whitetail sized game. Plus, I wouldn't mind shooting some groundhogs with it as well.

Moose/Caribou/Whitetails with the occasional Groundhog thrown in. This is going to leave out most all of the magnums so I would go with a 6.5mm Swede, although I dont care for any of the available varmint bullets in .264 caliber others do. The Swede has accounted for more Moose than many would believe using the available 160 gr. bullets. As far as a rifle goes check out the offerings from Savage. At this point in time they are the most accurate out of the box rifles you can buy. Easier on your pocket book too. Let us know what you choose and how your hunt goes. Small groups and tight lines to you. Lawdog

Steelhead · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2004, 11:13:06 AM »

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please have we forgotten the mantra that all good riflemEn should know?

"The 30/06 is never a wrong choice."

Get a 30/06 stoke it with some 180 Nosler Partitions (200 if so inclined) for the big stuff. Some standard 150's or 165's for the deer. Some 125's for the vermin. You will not be sorry.

I am assuming you don't reload? They are now making "light" factory loads for the 30/06 with 170 and I believe 125 grain bullets. Should kick about like your 30/30 and do the same work with deer that your 30/30 rifle has done. You can then step up to the more expensive stuff for your BIG GAME hunts. All a 300 Magnum will get you is more recoil and more gun weight (generally).

Oh yea, rifle I would opt for a Ruger 77 myself. But a Savage, and what I hear, the Tikka would also be a sound choice.

ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anweis · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2004, 12:11:20 PM »

What the heck, you don't really need another rifle, you already have one (30-30) you just have to carefully select and try ammo and make sure you use the biggest and toughest bullet on moose. Yeah, and stay within 100 yards for the moose kill.

But if you really want another rifle (you don't have to justify that to me :wink: ) go for something you are comfortable shooting, forget about the magnums. A 30-06 will kill anything that walks the face of the Earth (provided the appropriate bullet and that you know how to use it).

I would get a Tikka in 6.5 Swedish and use 160 gr. bullets. But that's just my obsession. I've seen a grizzly shot in Siberia with one of those (Norma ammo). Well, to put it in short, i've never tought an animal bigger than my car can be killed so quickly by a single bullet. I've shot the sixth largest boar ever shot in Russia (and they get big there, you know) with a 6.5 Swedish. One shot, from 120 meters, it died in 5 seconds. Now i know that it's the hunter, the shot placement, and the bullet that kill. Know thy game, know thy bullet power, and stay within limits, and you will be fine. All this magnumitis that you see now is just baloney. First the 30-30 was touted as non-plus ultra (that means "there is no better"), then the 30-40 Krag, then the 300 Savage, then the 30-06, and now it seems that you can't call yourself an honest hunter if it doesn't say "magnum" on your bossiness card.
Up-north in Canada, native people shoot and kill more moose than all the city folk with their magnums can ever dream off , and they use 30-30, 303 British and 30-06. In Africa, 6.5 MS, 7x57, and 30-06 have killed well and none complained about them. My grandfather used a 7x57 Rimmed in a single shot break open rifle, and he got a good number of red deer (the size of elk), boar, bear, and whatnot. He never wanted a bigger gun, but he knew when to shoot and when not to.
Learn where the heart is in your game, and shoot a bullet that will get there. As for choosing a rifle, get something that is comfortable to you, and that you can afford shooting. It takes practice, you already know that.

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2004, 05:16:38 PM »

As the majority say`s, you can`t go wrong with an old 06. If you don`t reload it`s even a better choice as you can get ammo for it any where that they sell ammo, and the selection will be larger. You could do the hunt with the .30-30 if you want to get alittle closer, but man you have a good excuse to get a new gun so get one. :lol: I would recomand 180 to 220 grn. bullets on the moose and 150 grners. on the caribou.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2004, 07:10:46 PM »

Asking a rifle to go from moose to groundhogs is asking a lot. For moose I would want a .300 Win Mag at a minimum (even though, yes, your .30-30 will do the job - especially with well-placed 175g bullets). Better yet, I would prefer a .338 Win Mag, .375H&H or even a .45-70 Marlin levergun.

The problem with these rifles is that they make poor groundhog guns - if you hand load they often use more powder than necessary, more expensive bullets, and tend to generate far more recoil than a more "sensible" groundhog rifle/cartridge.

Those suggesting a .30-06 with heravy loads for moose and reduced recoil loads for groundhogs are on the right track. A .308 is another viable option.

leverfan · « **Reply #7 on:** June 25, 2004, 08:12:14 PM »

30-06, Ruger or Browning A-Bolt. Use at least 180 grain bullets for the moose, something like Nosler Partitions or Barnes X-Bullets, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to use 200 grain bullets. The 30-06 will handle the bigger bullets much better than the 308 Winchester can, especially since many .308 Winchesters have a slower twist (lots of them have a 12", vs. the 10" you find in most 30-06 rifles). All a magnum thirty caliber will give you is more recoil. If you simply must have a magnum, move up to a larger caliber, too, at least .338. You might as well get a real increase in field performance to go with that roar and kick. However, the 30-06 will do just fine, provided you do your part.

TennesseeNuc · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2004, 09:06:31 PM »

MD,
I would have to cast my vote for the 30-06. Probably has the largest selection of factory loads of any caliber. If weather and hunting conditions are going to be rough, you might want to consider a stainless/synthetic rifle in whichever brand you choose.
Best,
TnNuc

jamie · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2004, 03:17:53 AM »

"All a magnum thirty caliber will give you is more recoil. "

True if you don't count fps, energy and range.

huntsman · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2004, 04:12:31 AM »

A moose/caribou rifle is one thing, but a groundhog rifle is yet another. There are many rifles that will satisfy either requirement, but far fewer that will satisfy both. For moose and caribou, you will probably want a rifle that delivers a 150+ grain bullet with authority at the range you intend to shoot. For groundhogs, you will probably want a rifle that delivers a 100 or less grain bullet with good accuracy at longer ranges.

Given the considerations above, my own line of thinking would be to select a caliber in the medium bore range, anywhere from .264 (minimum for moose) up to .284 (maximum for the better varmint bullets). Some good choices (but not the only ones) are the 6.5x55 Swedish, 7x57 Mauser, 7mm-08, and .270 Win. Quality optics would be a major consideration. There are a number of manufacturers that produce good rifles; brand is mostly a matter of personal choice.

Unfortunately, to get a true performance varmint round in these calibers, you will likely need to handload, as the commercial ammo manufacturers routinely neglect this aspect of the medium bore rifles. However, handloading will be worth the effort in your case, as you can tailor loads for your wide range of ballistic and terminal performance needs.

Good luck with whatever you choose and enjoy those steaks!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2004, 04:58:40 AM »

Well...that's a heck of a challenge...from Moose to groundhogs...I can't say for Moose,but if a 30-30 will take them and for the rest...I would go with a 308...there are a-lot of brands to choose from...if you want to get by on the cheap and don't mind taking the single shot challenge...try a NEF Ultra in 308...if you prefere a bolt...take a look at the Weatherby line...they have a-lot of choices from relatively inexpensive to high $$$$...but they do make great rifles....if you want a Magnum they do have some good ones too....

Mac

anweis · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2004, 06:39:03 AM »

something that will kill your moose with the heavier bullets (make sure you use a bonded core, strong bullet on such a large animal) and be accurate on groundhogs with light bullets (if there is anything that you can damage or injure around those groundhogs, use an explosive bullet with a thin jacket, the so-called varmint bulets)

6.5x54, 6.5x53, 6.5mm Japanese, 260 Remington, 6.5x55mm Swedish, 6.5x58mm Sauer, 270 Winchester

7mm of various flavors

307 Winchester, 30-30 Winchester, 300 Savage, 308 Winchester, 30-06

30-40 Krag, 7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian, 7.5x55mm Schmidt-Rubin (Swiss), 303 British

8x57mm Mauser

I like .308 very much, because of available surplus ammo at reasonable cost. It really matters how much i practice shooting, and i do it in all conceivable situations except from a bench. Otherwise i like heavy 6.5 mm bullets. A 160 gr. 6.5 mm bullet, with high sectional density, will penetrate like a .30 cal bullet of 200-220 grains at the same velocity.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2004, 10:48:19 AM »

Another vote for a 30-06. A Ruger stainless M77 MKII with a laminated or synthetic stock is a good choice. I have a Ruger stainless and a Win M70 stainless. For the money the Ruger is hard to beat.

Big · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2004, 06:04:15 PM »

Yup, .30-06. Critters haven't changed much since 1906, and they haven't started wearing armor, so you don't need a magnum. Whatever you get, make sure you try different ammo and see what groups best out of your barrel. My Win model 70 splatters 150 grain bullets all over the place, but it gives <1 inch groups at 100 yards with any out-of-the-box 180 grain bullet I've tried.

leverfan · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2004, 08:10:24 PM »

Quote from: jamie

"All a magnum thirty caliber will give you is more recoil. "

True if you don't count fps, energy and range.

Well, if you bump up to a 300 Winchester mag, you'll get an advantage of about 300 fps, tops (in the real world, not factory hype), with the same bullet weights. That's barely worth counting, IMHO, because it has so little effect in the field. Energy barely enters into the equation, at least for me, because animals don't seem to be familiar with KE formulas.

A 30-06 will work just fine out to 300 yards, and then some, and I haven't seen many guys at the range that can make good hits, from field positions, at any range beyond that.

Besides, if I zero the same 180 grain, .308 ", .425 BC bullet at 200 yards, the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Winchester mag will be 2 inches at 300 yards. Since it's easier for most hunters to shoot the 30-06 well, the ease of use for the 30-06 should more than make up for that whopping 2" worth of extra drop at 300 yards. In the magnum's defence, it will be one-half of an inch flatter at 100 yards, compared to that old 30-06.

Like I said before, if I'm going to step up a notch, it will be in bullet size, not velocity. In this case, that means an 8 mm, or a .338.

MDTrestand · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2004, 01:49:43 AM »

I really appreciate all the input. I went out this weekend and looked at a lot of different rifles. There was one that stood out for me in fit, looks and features was a Ruger. I ended up picking up a Ruger, 30:06, stainless, M 77, MK II. It is one sweet gun. Again thanks to all and I truly appreciated all the input.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2004, 03:16:16 AM »

A magnum would be the way to go---but G-hog stipulation throws a wrench in the deal------leaving you with the .30-06.

No need to go to some oddball---obsolete------foreign cartridge.

bigjeepman · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2004, 01:17:09 PM »

My brother has a Ruger 7mm and I have a Ruger in .243 and we really like them. Both became excellent shooters after a little work. The triggers were replaced with Timney triggers. Additionally, my .243 had the lugs lapped, and the crown trued and nothing else. The total cost was under $100 for the .243 and it is quite a shooter now.

The triggers could have been adjusted but we still opted for the Timneys. Good luck to you and good shootin'.

smoky · « **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2004, 09:11:09 AM »

Get an Encore with a .300 win. Mag barrel. Then later you can choose other barrels to suit your needs.

Smoky

Magnanova1 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2004, 09:24:56 AM »

I guess, I would say that I would forget about groundhogs while using this particular gun. I have seen what a .30-30 does to a groundhog, and it isn't pretty. So if you want a gun for a moose-hunt go no lower than a .30-06 . If you want this gun to kill groundhogs for food, it can't be done. If you want a gun to just kill them, pick a magnum or whatever caliber you want, the groundhog won't notice the size difference between a .222 to the heart, or a .300 RUM to the heart, either way it's dead. And by the way, I've heard of a .308 being used for moose as well. So make sure you get something comfortable for your shoulder. Don't get shaky because you are scared of the recoil. Anyway, my basic point is this, get this particular gun for big game, and if you want, use it on ground-hogs.

Yukon Jack · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2004, 06:49:22 PM »

Let me get this straight, this guy is a self proclaimed novice, and you guys are recommending a 300 Mag?

If you've shot the 30-30, likely you will be able to handle a 308, 280 Rem, 30-06 just fine, and I would recommend one of those. The 280 or 30-06 especially. Go with a rifle that fits you well in the 8 to 9 pound range and you won't have any problems handling the recoil. My personal preference would be the Winchester M70 or Ruger M77, but I would recommend you visit a gunshop that has different brands and styles and pick the one that fits you best and you like the best. In the 280, I'd go with 160 or 175 grain loads. In the '06 I'd go with 180 grain loads. The 308 would do the job also, but I'd drop down in bullet weight to 165 grain for better trajectory for the caribou.

Moose are pretty big animals and I'd go with a bullet like the Nosler Partition or Swift A Frame, or any other of respected bullets (Trophy Bonded, North Fork, Barnes, etc...). Federal, Remington, PMC and a few other make loaded ammunition using these fine bullets, so if you aren't going to handload before the trip, you can get a couple of boxes to try.

Top the rifle with a good variable scope, something like the 2.5-8x Leupold or 3-9x Leupold. Burris and others make fine glass also. Zeiss has a comparable priced line of scopes that appear to be very good called the Conquest series.

You might want to have a good gunsmith to work the trigger over on the new rifle, or adjust it to your taste and keep it at a safe weight. If you don't have any experience mounting scopes, let the gunsmith do that for you too.

There's a difference between new to the high power rifle game, rifle hunters, and certified gun cranks. I wouldn't recommend getting too fancy or hard recoiling rifle right off the bat. The 280, 308, 30-06 class cartridges will handle everything on this continent. I would want something a bit more for the really big bears, but other than that, they will do just fine for moose and caribou or anything else.

pc · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2004, 09:09:22 PM »

I would opt for either a cz550 in 30/06 or 9.3x62 with 9.3x62 being my favourite of the two. CZ's represent great value and the 9.3x62 round can be loaded with the 232 gr oryx Norma projectile or the 250 gr Nosler Ballistic tip for a trajectory similar to the 30/06 with more punch. For heavier game you could load the 286 gr Nosler Partition or use woodleigh projectiles which are simply the best in weight's 250gr, 286 gr & 320 gr. Barnes X bullets are also availble. Speer also make a 270 gr bullet which would be fine for small deer and pigs, I get good accuracy with them in my cz 550 lux and lapua brass. The cz550 holds 5 rounds down and I have a leupold 2-7x33 in warne fixed mounts.

I have a Ruger MK11 30/06 and the lux 9.3x62 cz 550 and I feel the cz is a lot better than the Ruger and it is much more accurate. I would like to ditch the Ruger 30/06 and get a cz 550 30/06. McMillan also make synthetic stocks for the cz 550 if your that way inclined, and McMillan make the best composite stocks in the business.

I am so impressed with cz rifles that I own 5 and have a 6th in .300 win mag on lay away.

Hope this helps.

azshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2004, 05:17:59 AM »

Quote from: anweis

What the heck, you don't really need another rifle, you already have one...

Blasphemy!

7magWoodsman · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2004, 06:46:49 PM »

Hope you enjoy your new Ruger M77 I know I love mine chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum. I think the 30'06 was the best choice in your situation. Happy Hunting! :grin:

Mauser · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2004, 01:11:36 AM »

Another vote for the 30/06-the finest all-around cartridge ever made. People have used it successfully for everything from squirrels to elephants. Hemingway killed his cape buffalo with a
Springfield '03 in 30/06. Even Jack O'Connor said it was more versatile than the 270.

The only problem is if you are very recoil adverse. The '06 is not, for most, a light-kicking cartridge.

Unless you are really comfortable and competent shooting at elk-sized animals at over 300 yards and intend to do so, a magnum is unnecessary.