Range Report - Rem Model 7, 7mm-08 and others....

[Warthog]

Had a great day for shooting in the Northwest Georgia mountains.  I got to the range about 9:15.  It was calm, temp about 72 or 73 with very low humidity.  This is probably the only day we'll get like that this year.
Anyway,  first up was my Rem 700, 300 Savage.  All three guns today got factory Winchester Power Points.  This was 150 grains.  I'd put a new scope on it and just wanted to get it sighted in.  After some "get on target" shots, I fired three 5 shot groups.  All three groups were 1 1/2" to 1 3/4".  Nothing to write home about, but plenty good for minute of deer.

Next I shot my M70, .270WSM.  As usual it's three groups were very boring, running 3/4" to 1".  Again, 150 grain Power Points.

Finally, I got to my new SS Model 7 in 7mm-08.  I got it about a month ago and this was the first chance I've had to shoot.  When I brought it home, I'd cleaned it well, and mounted and bore sighted a Bushnell Trophy 3X9-40 with Talley integrated rings and bases.  I set the target at 50 yards and used three 140 grain Power Points to get it pretty well centered.  I moved the target out to 100 yards and fired two more rounds to put it where I wanted on target.  I let the rifle cool and fired three groups of five shots each, giving the barrel about three minutes between shots, and 10 minutes between groups.  The result:  in each group, a single raggety hole!!!  I didn't even adjust the trigger!  It is very smooth, with just a little take up, but clean and crisp and just a little heavy.  This is absolutely the most accurate rifle 'out of the box' that I've EVER owned.  I know Remington has had some quality issues lately and I sure hope this thing holds up.  What an exciting day at the range!!!

[smoky]

Super shooting!!  I have the ackley improved version of that caliber built on a 700 short action and I love mine as well.  The 7-08 may well be the most inherently accurate caliber out there.

It was a good day for me too..... I started construction of my shooting range on our property.  Had a load of sand delivered and picked up a load of old tires from a local dealer.  Gotta build the backstop first.

Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can duplicate some groups like you shot today!

Smoky

[Big Paulie]

On the issue of building your new gun range back stop, don't use any railroad ties as part of the backstop.   I was stupid enough to do this, with a wall of railroad ties serving as the ultimate backstop, with a pile of sand in front of it.

  My wife stood back at twenty yards or so and was shooting a 38 snub with wadcutters.  I stood besider her watching.  Suddenly a real bright flash went past my left eye.  I had no idea what it was but jerked my head to the left.  Then she shot again and I saw the grass "part" about two feet in front of me.  Now I knew what was going on.     So I yelled at her to stop shooting (she had her muffs on.)  She didn't hear me, and squeezed off a third round.  She went down like a lightening bolt had struck her, with her knees pulled up into her chest and her arms wrapped around her legs, rolling back and forth and screaming.  I was sure she was gut shot.

   When I got her to lay on her side, and I pulled her knees down, I was relieved to see that she wasn't hit in the stomach or chest, but had instead been hit straight on in the middle of her shin bone, on the very front of the bone.   The bullet must have been flat, because it didn't penetrate. It left a large round black bruise and a small dent on the front of her leg.  She was able to walk within a couple of hours, but the pain was bad.

   So, a very close call that I won't forget.  When railroad ties dry out, they are as hard as iron, and bullets will ricochet accordingly.

Big Paulie

[smoky]

Wow!! Thanks for the heads up and I'm sure glad your wife is all right.  I in fact have a very large pile of rail road ties (corner fence posts for the farm), but I am actually planning on stacking old tires in a slight concave arrangement 5 tires wide by several tires tall, and then filling them with sand.  I was thinking of driving metal farm fence posts inside the tires to help avoid shifting over time, but I have not yet decided.  I will then build a wood board "fence style" target holder in front of the back stop so that multiple targets can be attached at the same time.

Any more suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,

Smoky

[Big Paulie]

I just have some further info on using the metal T-post (fence posts).  

  I had an honest to god real heavy metal T-post (fence post) in my backstop on my farm.  I was shooting at 50 yards.

   I was shooting a 30-30 carbine one day, with Remington 150 grain, soft point Core Lock bullets, and "just for the fun of it" I aimed directly at the T-post "to see what would happen."  

   I hit the post dead-on, on a flat side, and it didn't wobble,  so I went down to the post to take a look.  There was a perfectly round hole, a little larger than 30 caliber, neatly cut right through the post!  I was amazed, and so was my wife.  Neither of us would have believed that the lowly 30-30 with a soft-point could have this much punching power on an iron post.

    My point:  If your T-posts take direct hits, even with soft points, they will soon be cut in half!

     My suggestion:  Maybe it would be better to get heavy re-bar, and cut it into four foot sections with a torch and use these for your stakes.  I have shot many of these with soft points, and they don't seem to get damaged.  Being round, they deflect.  Also, being round, they may "give" a little in each direction, unlike a metal T-Post.

Best Regards,

Big Paulie

[Graybeard]

I've shot into cross ties for years with every thing from .22LR to big bore handguns and centerfire rifles. Never once has a bullet come back from them. I think you must have had some metal plates still attached. Now shooting the metal train rails will sure send the bullet back at you. Dunno what you ties were made of it those around here sure don't bounce bullets off of them.

GB

[Mikey]

Greybeard and Big Paulie:  first of all Big Paulie, I am glad your wife was not seriously injured and she learned the same lesson I did - doan shoot at hard targets (anything not covered in flesh) with slow movin' loads from a snubbie.  

Greybeard - those railroad ties didn't have to have any metal in them to prevent a wadcutter from a snubbie from penetrating - they work just fine without the metal and will kick back a slow moving flat-nose bullet more often than you think.  Please don't try this at home.  I have had 38 wadcutters come back at me from fence posts, railroad ties and fifty gallon drums - been hit three times by my own richocetts (sp), from a distance and consider myself extremely lucky to have both eyes, at least half of my ears and both my teef.  

Wadcutters from a snubbie are very slow moving - you can watch them go downrange over light colored sand, or snow.  They probably only kick over at about 5 - 600'/sec, if that and that flat nose will both prevent them from penetrating and allow whatever you are shootin' at to throw them back at you with the natural resiliency (? sp) of the material shot at (like ties, or fence posts).  BTW, a 200 gn swc at the same velocites is a much different animal.

My attorney and I were shooting at my range one day, using the metal top of a 50 gallon drum for a target.  The top was laying on the berm at about 15 yds distance and was angled to about 45 degrees away from us.  We were using some reloaded 38 spl 158 gn swcs - from his snubbie we had no penetration and 3 come back at us before we stopped shooting - tried the same loads in my 6" 357 and had t & t penetration without problem.  It's not funny when they flutter by but it is interesting what happens to the same bullet with the additional velocity of a longer bbl.  

I got beaned by my own wadcutter bullet that ricochetted (? sp) off a fence post after I had shot a squirrel that was running up the post.  I hit him dead on and the bullet penetrated through, but bounced him right back off the post and hit me in the head.  

Same thing happened once when I was putting holes in a 55 gallon drum with a 38 snubbie so I could use it as a burning bin - one of the wadcutter bullets bounced off the > shaped part of the drum and then bounced off my forehead hard enough to ouch.  That's when I got really miffed and found that I could load a 9mm bullet (124 gn) into a 38 spl case over the heaviest charge of 2400 powder I could find in the books, with a fair degree of accuracy, and get penetration through both sides of the drum and out the wall of the barn behind it.  That made me feel a whole bunch better, even though I didn't really learn my lesson.

The last time I tried that idjit stunt was with a 25 auto, thinking the fmj bullet would penetrate the drum better - it did, nicely until I hit the > part again and had the bullet bounce off my ankle, which felt worse than when I banged my knee on something hard.

So, Big Paulie - don't let too much time go by before you get your wife back out on a range, but don't go shootin' at unarmed railroad ties with a snub nose 38 and wadcutter loads.  

Greybeard - please don't try this at home.    Mikey.

[Big Paulie]

Dear Mikey,

    Thanks for the story.  Yes, they were 158 grain wadcutters from a 2 inch Smith that my wife shot at the railroad ties.

    Also there is an enormous difference in a railroad tie that has been sitting on the wet ground for 5 years, and one that is sitting up off of the ground, laying exposed to the scorching sun in Memphis for 5 years.   I am not kidding when I say that they are as hard as iron.  You cannot sink a hatchet or an axe into them.  They will simply bounce off.  I can't believe that I built a solid wall of them and shot into them.  (I was trying to be so careful. Idiot me.)

    Also, I am glad to hear that I am not the only person who puts air-vent holes in his burn barrels by using a gun.  (It is really hard to use a cold-chisel).  I always used a full metal jacket military rifle round to do this.  You are right.,  22s, 25 autos and similar rounds (even the 9mm auto) will bounce right back at you!

Best Regards,

Big Paulie

[Mikey]

Big Paulie:  You're absolutely right about those railroad ties gettin' rock hard in the hot sun, and what a pain in the butt it is to try and cold-chisel some holes in steel drums to make burning bins.  After all, isn't that why they made fmj ammo in the first place (LOL).

BTW, I've been thinking about renaming my post from True Confessions to The Revenge of the Squirrel, but since I have so many up here, both four legged and two legged, I'm hesitant to give them any ideas (snicker).

Now, about that backstop you built - you put far too much effort into it to just not use it.  There has to be some way you can create a 'berm' of sorts that your boolets will penetrate into without impacting on the railroad ties.  I'm a wonderin'::::  do you shoot straight on at the ties?  If so, can you elevate your shooting area (where you stand) some so you are shooting at a downward angle and put some sand/dirt/#2 stone where you would place your targets so you don't get any Rick O'Sheas (par'n my Irish) and place your targets in front of that????  Or, can you add another layer of wood, but make it cut trees that the bullets might pass through, impact on the ties but not pass back through at ya?  Naw, that's way too much additional work.

On my indoor range (club range), our backstop is 1" steel plate at a 45 degree angle with a floor catchment area of sand, and nothing bounces back at ya.  Is there any way you could just angle those ties downward to deflect bullets to the ground??  Even a minor angle would do, I wouldn't think you would need a 45 degree angle.  I'm just trying to think of ways to keep your wife from having you hold the targets for her, seein' as how she caught the last one in the shin (owwwww).  HTH.  Mikey.

[Big Paulie]

Dear Mikey,

   You are right.  The way I fixed it was to get a large sheet of steel, but only 3/8ths inches thick, slanted down at a 45% angle, with sand below.  All of the bullets go into the sand with no problem, even from a rifle.  I think the angle is almost more important than the thickness of the steel.  I also took a sheet of 3/4inch exterior grade plywood, stained with exterior stain, and just leaned it back against the wall of railroad ties at a slight angle (almost flat up against the wall, but not quite).  In case a bullet escapes or misses the steel plate, it will go through the plywood and hit the ties, but any backward ricochet bullet will then come backward and hit the plywood, which will give a little, and the bullet does not make it back through the plywood.   It is trapped.

  Also, my railroad ties were not old, used, wornout ties full of cracks and soft places.  They were brand spanking new, and very deeply and thoroughly soaked with the tar/creosote preservative.  I bought them from a company that sells them to railroads.  There is no metal in them.  I can only guess that they are hardwood?   At any rate, as I said, after baking in the sun, they are like steel.  You can't even hammer a nail into them.  After about one-half of an inch into the tie, the nail just bends.  (Even a 16 penny nail.)

Best Regards,

Big Paulie