Badger dogs?

[RB Rooson]

Does anyone out there believe that a 10 lb. breed of dog can successfully hunt and work a 30+ lb. badger?  Or are these just stories?

[Double D]

You are right it isn't going to be a contest putting a 10 lb toy dachshund up against against  a monster 30+ plus pound Badger.

But then the Dachshund Germans used for weren't toys either. Standard dachshunds go 16-32 lb.
 
http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/dach.cfm

From everything I  have read about European badgers they are not quite as nasty as the American badger.  European badgers will get as big as 30 lbs but that would be a monster badger there as well as in the U.S.

I have hunted badgers in Oregon, California, New Mexico, Colorado, Texas, Wyoming and Montana over the past 40 years.  I have seen quite a few badgers and killed some also. In all those years I have only seen one that went over 30 lbs, 34 lbs to be exact and I had him life sized mounted.



When I was a kid back in the olden days when TV was B&W, I hunted with a hound man who had a standard dachshund that he took along coon hunting.  In Southern Oregon there are blackberry bushes all over.  It never failed that's where a coon would run to get away from the dogs.  The hounds didn't like going into  the blackberries and getting all stuck up.  That little dachshund would go in and it usually meant one dead coon.

Don't ever doubt the tenacity of the dachshund.

One thing I have noticed about badgers and dogs.  Big dogs, other than airedales don't do as well with badgers. Badgers seem to latch onto the long legs and break them.  The smaller dog are closer to the ground and quicker and seem better able to control; the badger.  Airedales, its chomp and it's done.

My little rat trerriers would intercept badgers every once in a while when l were hunting and they seem to be able to keep the badger busy.  I didn't really like them go after a badgers but some tme you just happen on them.  I always ended that very quickly.

[RB Rooson]

Double D - thank you for your reply.   I wanted to see if any others out there had any experience or information on earthworking dogs (specifically Terriers and Dachshunds).

There are two types of Badger dogs - Good ones and dead ones!  Having hunted over the past 18 years with terriers in both the USA and UK on quarry, I have seen numerous guys doubt that a 10-15 lb. terrier can even work a badger.

There are currently only 4 working terrier breeds left for all intents and purposes.  They are the Border Terrier, the Jack Russell, the Patterdale Terriers and a working Lakeland.  There are a smattering of others that work (the occassional Smooth Fox, Bedlington, etc.), but the majority of the work is done by the above mentioned four.

The terrier's real job is to "Locate, Bay and Stay".  LOCATE the quarry in tunnels that may run for 100's of feet with numerous criss-crosses and dead ends (takes a skilled terrier to sort it all out); BAY the quarry when pushed to a stop-end (tunnel goes no further) and not engage the badger when it is cornered (dog will lose everytime).  BAY until dug to, as this gives the handler a good chance of locating the terrier.  (Takes a clever terrier to learn to NOT engage a badger.  Good ones seem to know that this "critter in front of me, can kill me"); and STAY with the quarry no matter what!  Unless the terrier keeps the quarry busy, the quarry will turn and attempt to dig away.  If a terrier leaves a badger or even a groundhog - it will put approximately one foot of dirt down the tunnel behind it for every minute the dog is gone!  Then when the handler sends his dog back down the sette, the terrier has trouble finding and getting through the blocked tunnel.  LOCATE, BAY and STAY is the terrier's mettle.

Have taken a 31 lb. badger in this country with an 11 lb. Patterdale and up to 3 badgers in the same sette with a Jack Russell in a hunt outside of the USA.  Have seen 40 to 50 lb. badgers in Europe worked very efficiently with a 15-20 lb. Russell and Patterdales.  I have found gyps to be better workers (alittle more cautious and clever) and much more tractable when calling them out of the sette.

Never EVER enter two terriers at once on a badger!  Had a 45 lb. sow kill both dogs in the same sette in Scotland - where a good terrier may have been abit more judicious, two at one time was simply too much courage for the sette.  They fed off of each other's bravery and paid the price for it.......stupid mistake on the handler's part.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy RB and all,

As you know, I'm looking into more terrier dogs and hunting opportunities.  Down here in central Texas, it's a lot of rock and not much dirt, so I'm more than a bit afraid about having to dig to a dog.  It could take hours (or not happen at all).  A bit east, it's deep dirt, so maybe some opprotunities are there.  

We'll have to see about coyotes, with several fells, I would be confident about taking on them as well.

Adios,

[RB Rooson]

Big Hext,

There is a new Patterdale book out, aptly named "The Patterdale Terrier" and is available in November, 2004 from www.stackpolebooks.com - should sell for around $20.00 - it is quite good.

Sean Frain, well-known terrierman in England, has written a very good history and expounds on the use of the Patterdale.  I was sent an advance copy today to write an book review on it - so far, I have found it to be a fairly easy read, although there are some working terrier terms that the novice might not understand.

Numerous photos and a great research......

[Double D]

RB,

I lost track of this post and am glad to see your post tonight.

I won't allow my dogs to go to ground.  I don't like to dig for one thing.  The other thing is that in Montana you did not know what might be in the hole.  My biggest worry being rattlesnakes.  For some reason my dogs tend to be oblivious to snakes.  They don't see them. that is not good in snake country.

Since we moved to Virginia my dogs have not done much hunting.  An occasional trip to the woods and the dogs seem to fall right back into it.  If I were a tree squirrel hunter these dogs are a natural.  

I don't know  if you are aware but in California there is a  strain of Rat terriers called Deckers. These are larger dogs, 20-30 lbs.  They are used for hunting feral hogs and are good at it.

None of my badger hunts have been intentional, all have been "targets of opportunity"

I'm not that familiar with the Patterdales.  I know of them and that is it.

[RB Rooson]

Double D,

Am aware of the Decker "Giants".  Around 1970, an avid hunter by the name of Milton Decker possessed a very large Rat Terrier, "Henry", that he was tremendously fond of.  Henry was an exceptional hunter by Milton's estimation and he wanted to preserve the attributes that Henry showed in the field.

Milton traveled around the USA in order to find large Rat Terriers and basically started his own line.  Today, the results of his efforts have led to the Decker "Giants" and are recognized as a separate breed by the NRTA.  These terriers run very large (20-40 lbs.) and are used by those who hunt with them almost exclusively on "above ground" quarry (e.g. squirrels, upland birds, rabbits, etc.) - with some being employed on feral hogs.

There is an avid following in the USA for Decker "Giants", although the breed is not well-known outside of NRTA circles...........

And Double D, I understand your reluctance with earthworking terriers and snakes!

[lewdogg21]

http://www.nrta.com/breederswebpages/burz/decker/decker.html

very interesting