What about the .375 Winchester?

[PineyCreek22]

I was looking at the 38-55 and found to my amazement that the 30-30 is a necked down 38-55 and the .375 Winchester is a 38-55 on steroids.  You can tell I'm new at this.   I don't see too much talk about the .375 Winchester on the forums.  However, wouldn't it be a good transition ctg. between the .357 maxi and the 45-70, less kick and so on.  What are your opinions?  Would like to hear cause I have no experience in this area.  Thanks PC

[cwlongshot]

Its a great cartridage!  Arrived on the sceen in the late 1970's in a Winchester lever called the BIG BORE.  Followed quickly with a Marlin and Ruger and Savage. Little later T/C began chambering its single shot barrels for it.

Its case is a bit thicker thru the web that the 30-30 altho 30-30 reformed has been used succesfully. 375 Win brass is better. Its loaded to 50K pressures higher than all previous lever calibers.

Brought out in a 200 and 250 G loadings. GREAT hunting caliber and would make a excellent handi chambering. There are a couple guys here with them custom chambered.  Hornady offers a 200g and Sierra has a 200 and a 220 grain bullet.

I have a couple Marlins and had a T/C carbine chambered for it. I like the 220g Sierra and RL7 powder compressed loading, good velocity good accuracy and deadly on game.

CW

[quickdtoo]

The 375 Win has been the topic of discussion many times before, I wanted one at one time, but since I shoot 375 Win equivilent loads in my Handi 38-55 Shorty as do Pete and several others here, I went with a bigger .375", the 376 Steyr.  The only way to get a .375" anything in a Handi is a stub or a rebore, Jesse Ocumpaugh of JES Reboring does excellent work and the price is right if you want one.   

Tim

http://www.35caliber.com/2.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,245323.msg1099415498.html#msg1099415498

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,247673.msg1099436669.html#msg1099436669

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

has anyone sectioned cartridge cases in 30/30, 375Win, and 38/55?

call me a skeptic but I can't see a manufacturer making them any different.

the cost for different tooling compared to the cost of increased brass I'd think would be near a wash.

I don't have the wherewithall to do it, but would sure like to see modern brass and their differences...

anyone??

Quick?

[cwlongshot]

has anyone sectioned cartridge cases in 30/30, 375Win, and 38/55?

call me a skeptic but I can't see a manufacturer making them any different.

the cost for different tooling compared to the cost of increased brass I'd think would be near a wash.

I don't have the wherewithall to do it, but would sure like to see modern brass and their differences...

anyone??

Quick?

Here ya go!



CW

[petemi]

As Tim said.  I have my .38-55 and the Handi platform handles .375 level loads so I don't need or want one.  A while back I stumbled onto some old .348 Winchester brass which I sold here on the reloading classifieds.  For some unknown reason, that lingers and intrigues me.  Practicality makes it something I'm not going to try in a Handi....I don't think it offers anything unique, but it's still fun to think about.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

has anyone sectioned cartridge cases in 30/30, 375Win, and 38/55?

call me a skeptic but I can't see a manufacturer making them any different.

the cost for different tooling compared to the cost of increased brass I'd think would be near a wash.

I don't have the wherewithall to do it, but would sure like to see modern brass and their differences...

anyone??

Quick?

Marshal Stanton's (Beartooth Bullets) thoughts on 30-30/38-55/375 Win brass and relative strength.

Tim

http://www.shootersforum.com/leverguns-their-cartridges-general/2137-nobody-has-375-win.html

You are right! *The case walls on either the .38-55 or .30-30 are thinner, hence the increased case capacity! *However, there isn't the slightest hazard using this brass in your .375 Winchester. * Keep in mind that the .375 Winchester is a straight walled case, and most of it's stress during the firing cycle is outward, against the case walls... not back against the bolt face! *(P.O. Ackley did exhaustive studies on this phenomonon and conclusively proved the point) *Where you might get into trouble with the thinner case is if there was a significant amount of back-thrust against the breech-bolt, and then the thinner web of the case head could possibly cause a rupture if there was enough rearward movement of the case from perhaps excessive head-space.  However since this is a straight-walled case, not a tapered bottle-neck design, we don't have that back-thrust against the bolt-face.   Consequently the forces of physics are working in our favor when utilizing a brass case of thinner construction, especially when we look at the following contributing factors entered into the equation.

I'm not alone in the practice of using this brass, and others such as Paco Kelley will advise the same. *You can get one of two results:

The same velocity load as with standard .375 Win brass, but with lower pressures.

Or, a higher velocity load as compared to standard .375 Win brass, but with equal pressures.

I might also interject that todays brass is far higher quality due to advances in metallurgy than it was in 1894-96 when the .30-30 and .32 Special were conceived, thus necessary brass thickness then and now are somewhat different to contain equal pressures. * All this being said, the .30-30 case of the 1990's will withstand more pressure, more reliably than the same case made even 70 years ago, due to our more refined and perfected metalurgical sciences.

The truth is that the .375 Win Brass case is over-engineered for its intended purpose. * Keep in mind that it was conceived in a litigation oriented product development climate... in other words; * make that sucker lawyer proof! * Forget ballistic engineering and balancing case capacity, necessary strength and cartridge design.... first make it litigatiion proof, then worry about making it shoot!

Well, I better stop before I step up on a real-life soap-box!

Hope this helps!

God Bless,

Marshall

[gcrank1]

As a confirmed cast bullet shooter I would find somewhat thicker brass to be a blessing for better load density for the lower velocity loads that my softish lead alloys run at.
Even if H&R had made a .375 Win. I would be shooting (unlike you hot rod youngsters) 38-55 equiv. loads in it. I have two 38-55's, one set up for 'schuetzen' and one as a 'hunter' with peep & bead front. Ive been happy to use lead in them and it is the REAL 38 cal., not one of those little 36 cal. 'maxi-thingies'( ). I find it to be a nice fill in between 30-30 and 45-70.
I would like to see H&R offer up a PROPERLY chambered 38-55 for the bore/groove dimensions and in the std. 22" platform or even an UH with 24" in stainless to match the UH 45-70 so you guys could shoot the available jacketed bullets or lead without 'fine tuning'. Meanwhile, until they do, find yourself a 38-55 TM  .

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

thanks CW

that proves me wrong!

although the head of the 30-30 looks stronger, the first 3/4" or so of wall appears thicker on the .375.

good to know.

I have a few 30-30's and I have read that for real sloppy chambers, the 375 necked down works well for jacketed.

nice to see that modern 38/55 brass could be used to fill an overly long neck to help with Cast.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I also noticed this:
Keep in mind that the .375 Winchester is a straight walled case, and most of it's stress during the firing cycle is outward, against the case walls... not back against the bolt face! *(P.O. Ackley did exhaustive studies on this phenomonon and conclusively proved the point)


explains why straight walled pistol cases are fine on the SB1.

I remember reading Ackley, and about his experiments with a Win94 with the locking bolts removed and the gun opening on firing ONLY when pressure was a lot less than max.
Once pressures got up to standard operating pressures, a properly fitted brass in a clean chamber had little if any backthrust.

I wish I was rich, so I could test to destruction, a Handi SB1 in 44mag stretched out to SuperMag length, or more, loaded to 60,000psi

[gcrank1]

Thicker brass above the web may be the 'new normal' in the basic brass these calibers are made from. We would have to section new lots to know, and it may vary lot to lot.
The case is only a powder container, the chamber holds the pressure. I have never had a case separation or split in that lower area of any caliber which uses the 30-30 basic. Thicker wall there may be a solution to a non-existent 'problem'?

[mauser98us]

I use 375 Win cases in my 38-55 handi due to to throating issues and they work fine. I also neck down 375 cases for my 32 Special which work superb. Almost no stretching in the web area.

[quickdtoo]

My 38-55s wouldn't chamber 375 Win brass with .379" jacketed bullets, but work fine with Starline long brass and the same loads. Not an issue for .381" cast since I necked reamed them tho.

I do use 375 Win brass in my 30-30AI Handi for 60kpsi loads tho. 

Tim