Hornady 200gr .358 let me down

[muznut 54]

I guess I'm going to use a Barnes all copper bullet next year not because the Hornady 200gr RN didn't kill my buck but because the bullet fraged and left a bunch of little lead pieces in my forward quarter on the entrance and in the exit side shoulder and ribs. I admit that it was at very close range but I don't like the Idea of eating lead. The load wasn't all that hot but anyway I have a BLR .358win. Does anybody have a good load using the Barnes 200 or 225gr bullets for that rifle?   

[Dave in WV]

The RN bullets are really for the 35 Remington. Try a pointed bullet.
http://35cal.com/35bullet_study/35bullet_study1.html

[Lloyd Smale]

You cant really judge a bullet on its performance on one animal. Some of the most messed up deer ive shot have been with barnes and nos partitions. thing is with them is if you hit a shoulder your about guaranteed two blown up shoulders as they will defineatly penetrate enough to ruin both. As to eating lead ive been shooting cup and core bullets at deer for years and about live on venison and am still alive and kicking. Trim away the blood shot meat and the lead goes with it and even if you did digest a small chuck of lead your digestive system can digest it and it will pass. You will get more lead poisoning handling lead bullets or shooting ammo and getting it from primer vapors then you will from eating an animal shot with a lead bullet. Lead vapor and lead dust are much more of a consern then actual chunks of lead.

[bigswede]

if you do decide to switch bullets, I would test yours more first, I would suggest the Speer 220 gr.  One of the best bullets for deer I've shot out of my 350 rem mag.  Up close or out to 300 yds, they all piled up and very, very minimal meat lost.  Man how I love .358 caliber.

[BBF]

if you do decide to switch bullets, I would test yours more first, I would suggest the Speer 220 gr.  One of the best bullets for deer I've shot out of my 350 rem mag.  Up close or out to 300 yds, they all piled up and very, very minimal meat lost.  Man how I love .358 caliber.

 
+1 on the Speer bullet and their 180 gr holds up very nicely as well.
 
The 200 gr RN bullets from Hdy,Sierra are made for the 35 Rem and are fragile for the 358 and similar.

[cwlongshot]

ALL EXCELLENT ADVICE and I agree!!

Results from one deer dose not make a ''rule''.

BUT this bullet IS designed for the 35Rem at 2000fps... Your 358 can move it to 2600+!!

Personally I like the 200 Hornady SPITZER. I to have used the 358BLR and shot a dozen or so deer with it with 100% success and all but one a DRT. Even the one that did not was MY FAULT... the deer was running and close, But I still screwed up and hit her too far back. She only went 100 or so yards and I found here in a stream. She would have died there almost for certain had I not found here and shot here again.

The Hornady 200FTX is also highly recomended altho I haven't used it myself.

I like and use the 220 Speer in my 356 Handi. Its a proven bullet that would be just as great in the 358/35 Whelen. I also like the 225 Nosler and Sierra in the Whelen!!



CW

[RevJim]

 I had a BLR for a short time last year, and the Remington 200 PSP over 49gr 3031 was the cat's meow for accuracy. I used 748 behind the Sierra 225. Never used either on game. I have shot many head of game with my 35 Whelen Imp. and the 200X, but I start them out right at 2950. I did shoot completely through a Black Wildebeest at 347yds with the 200X, so even slowed down, it killed great. I tried TAC in the 358, but had to use the 200 TSX to fit through the magazine; I had planned on trying the 200 Tipped TSX, which works swell out of my Whelen.
 Lots of folks on this board use the 358, mostly with the Spire Pt. 200 through 250 Speer. I liked how the Remington 200 PSP shot in mine, and it is made to hold up to Whelen speeds, and has a good reputation on deer/black bear. Now, nothing wrong with the Barnes 200 TSX. I even think a Woodleigh 225 RN would be a swell deer round. Good luck to you Pard.

[flinter54]

Hey Muznut, lots of good information in here. I used hornady's 200gr round nose to take a little buck a couple of years ago and it worked just great. The shot was about 80-85 yards and the little guy was quartering to me. At the shot, he dropped to his chest, regained his feet and made a mad dash for probably 60-80 yards. Front shoulder was busted up and the exit was about the size of a nickle coming out just aft of the last rib on the off side.

As everyone has said, that bullet was designed for the 35Rem, but I also believe it is a great choice for the .356win and the .358win. Yes those cartridges can push that bullet much faster than what it was originally designed for. However with its rather poor ballistic coefficient by the time it gets out to 100 150 yards, it has slowed down to a more workable velocity. If the shots are close then the hunter would have to be more picky as to the shot angle. Also, since the .358 is a reloading only proposition, (for the exception of some scattered Winchester and Hornady ammo) we can chose to drive it to the full potential of cartridge or keep it at a more moderate velocity.

I have included a couple of pictures with some bullets fired out of my Hawkeye. The picture with the line up includes from L to R a
158gr Speer Deep Curl HP, the Hornady 200gr RN, Speer 220gr FP, Sierra 225gr Gameking, and the 225gr Nosler Accubond.

Each round was fired from 10 feet into a 12 inch block of ballistic Gelatin backed up by one gallon milk jugs. Muzzle velocity for the Hornady was in the neighborhood of 2500, the Speer 220, sierra 225 and the 225 Nosler were all in the mid 2400's. The pistol bullet was around 2700 and WOW was it a grenade.

I do look forward to testing the 200gr TSX. I would imagine I would need another block of gelatin and lots of milk jugs.  


I also agree with Bigswede. I used the speer 220 flat nose this year for my deer and it was absolutely devastating. Great bullet. 


Flinter54

[muznut 54]

Thanks for all the good info guys. I have used these 200gr Hornady bullets on deer before with no problems I guess it was because I was about 25 to 30 yards from my buck. I do have some Speer 220gr bullets that I might use next year. I hit the deer about an inch into the forward quarter but on the exit side it came out dead center. I have cut my fair share of gel out of meat and cut or soaked out the bloodshot but I worry about lead spray and tiny frags in my meat.  

[bigswede]

FLINTER54

Good work on the bullet testing.  I shoot the 3 on the right out of my 350's and 358 Norma's.  Haven't taken any game with the accubond yet, but I have used it in other calibers with great results.

[flinter54]

I decided to start testing bullets out of my .358win, when I had two vastly different reactions to one bullet. I was shooting the sierra 225 gameking and one doe I took was at 90 yards and the bullet impact was right on the shoulder and she collapsed immediately. Second Doe was at 160 yards and it was a quartering too shot and I also hit her on the shoulder. This time instead of dropping at the shot, she jumped spun and ran. I also want to point out, both animals were showing a very relaxed body posture before the shot, both animals were feeding. 


Upon field dressing them, they also had two vastly different wound channels. The first animal (one at 90 yards) the chest cavity was full of Jelly" absolutely massive destruction. The second animal revealed much less trauma to the chest cavity. I would say the majority of lungs were in tact with some bloodshot tissue surrounding the bullet hole.


I was virtually positive I knew why, but I had to confirm it. That's when I started testing bullets. This coming spring is going to be busy, because I want to continue with the 250 grain and 180 grain products. I will also start testing them all over again out of my new Model 700 CDL in 35 Whelen AI. 


Although the homemade testing methods I and many others use are not as scientific as a ballistics lab. Testing ones hunting bullets is a great way to glean all sorts of valuable information. I would definitely recommend this practice to those that are curious about bullet performance out of their own guns.


Flinter.   

[RevJim]

 I loaded the Speer 180 in a standard Whelen, shot very well, but few people want to use the lighter bullets in the 358. I do think that heavy, round nose bullets work extremely well on thick skinned/heavy muscled animals, but never had a problem with the lighter bullets on deer. I like the soft lead on the round noses/flat points in the slower calibers, they seem to kill very well. having said all that, ha, I think the Speer 220 would be a hard one to beat out of a BLR and its shorter magazine. Even the Remington 700 short action is cramped. I should have bought the little Ruger Hawkeye I saw in 358 when I had the chance, its magazine is a tad longer, and easier to work with spire points,etc. Of course, this is just a guess as every time I get to even thinking/writing about another 35 caliber, my 35 Whelen AI starts banging around in the gun cabinet! ha  If I had a time machine ( which means I would have money back then too!) I would go back to when I was 16 and instead of buying a Mod 94 Classic carbine, I would have got the BLR in 358 and used it on those East Texas deer/hogs. Most likely It would have been the only 35 caliber rifle I ever owned!  I did enjoy my 30-30, lots of experience with it, but a 35 sure cuts a big hole, and makes less mush than my later 30.06/150 CLs  ever did on them! ha In all fairness, I had two friends who both had Mod 742s in 30.06, one used the 180 round nose, the other the 220 RN, and they didn't tear up a lot either, both good choices, but I was after the "long shot" back then. It only took me 20yrs to get a 276yd shot out on the pipeline! Up to that time, in that area, my longest shot had been 95 steps! Now I'm older (fatter/stiffer) I tend to hang back in the edges/thicker stuff, slowly walk game trails or sit, so I am full circle again, ha. Good luck to you Pard.

[flinter54]

Yeah, RJ I'm one of those few that don't use the 180's out of my 358. I know I will at some point down the road, its just I really like the 200+ gr in this caliber. These heavier bullets are the reason the 35's work so dang well. In my humble opinion, I believe the 35 caliber family of cartridges are the absolutely most underrated of all the calibers out there. They're not flashy, they just get the job done with authority. 


If you do get another chance to acquire a Hawkeye in .358 don't hesitate. It really is a nice compact package. I really like the dull finish on all the metal parts, as well as the heavier contoured barrel. The trigger has a nice crisp break, and recoil is just enough to let you know your shooting something with a little umph to it. The accuracy this rifle/cartridge combinations provides is also very appealing. My loads to date have been from .75 to 1.2. For a big game rifle, I don't think you can ask for much more. I just hope the new 35AI will shoot as well as its little brother.


Well I do hope you either get a chance to own one of these, or the BLR in 358. Either one would serve you very very well.


Flinter.

[cwlongshot]

Yeah, RJ I'm one of those few that don't use the 180's out of my 358. I know I will at some point down the road, its just I really like the 200+ gr in this caliber. These heavier bullets are the reason the 35's work so dang well. In my humble opinion, I believe the 35 caliber family of cartridges are the absolutely most underrated of all the calibers out there. They're not flashy, they just get the job done with authority. 


Flinter.

HERE HERE!!! 

If you want lighter bullets...choose a lighter caliber!!

CW