Stripped Scope Mount Screws in Handi .45-70...

[evan1395]

So I went to go switch the scope over to the .17HMR today and decided to go with the iron sights on the Handi for awhile. I got the scope off put it on the Sportster and it looks niiiice. I might just keep it this way, maybe help freshen up my iron sight skills on the .45-70
 
Anyway I proceeded to take the scope mount off the top of the Handi...1st one came out very easily. 2nd one BOOM, instant strip. After kicking myself in the ass (and my bed frame) I proceeded to take out the 3rd. With a new allen in hand I went to the 3rd screw head and slowly started to loosen it, BAM this head stripped again. What are the quality of these screws? Why do they use such a soft metal. I was not bear gripping it or forcing it, after the first strip I was unscrewing them very gingerly, I have no idea why they stripped so damn easy.
 
Anyway, I can still use the iron sight with the scope mount, but it is a pain in the butt. Me not having ever having to extract a stripped screw (or having the equipment) I am at a loss in what I am supposed to do.
Would a gunsmith be bale to extract these 2 screws with ease? Am I gonna get charged up the ass for somthing that is fairly easy to do myself? I need help guys! Thanks!
 
-Evan

[quickdtoo]

There's help in the FAQs for that exact problem, had you read it first, you would have had no problems, heat is your friend in softening the thread sealant the factory uses, there are also fixes that you can do at home in the same FAQs link.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Here ya go...  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,112979.msg1098352173.html#msg1098352173

[evan1395]

Here ya go...  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,112979.msg1098352173.html#msg1098352173

Seeing as how I have no torch or soldering iron as a source of heat, I suppose i will try a good ol' bic lighter for a little while. Once it gets hot, I suppose the torx bit idea? Just pound it into the stripped head and burry it in the old bit fitting?

[evan1395]

Or drill the head out as CWlongshot had posted how to. I don't really plan on throwing another scope and mount on the Handi for the time being (Like I said i'd like to sharpen up my open sights skill). So maybe drilling would be the easiest way?
 
I saw he took the barrel off. Me have only owned the Handi for a little while, I don't even know how to un-assemble the rifle.
:O

[gcrank1]

NO, do not drill off the head, that is a last resort after exhausting all other attempts. The idea here is that you continue to work with as much metal as possible, as long as possible. If you dont have at least a propane torch you must have a friend with one. You do not have to hear it up red hot either, but hot enough to break that chemical bonding of the factory Locktite. The 'hammer blows' of rapping that Torx bit in will also help after the heating. (you can get good quality Torx bits reasonably priced at your local big-box building center).
Oh, BTW, the screws arent stripped, the head is stripped out.....similar but not quite the same (I know, Im being picky, but words/terms matter).

[evan1395]

NO, do not drill off the head, that is a last resort after exhausting all other attempts. The idea here is that you continue to work with as much metal as possible, as long as possible. If you dont have at least a propane torch you must have a friend with one. You do not have to hear it up red hot either, but hot enough to break that chemical bonding of the factory Locktite. The 'hammer blows' of rapping that Torx bit in will also help after the heating. (you can get good quality Torx bits reasonably priced at your local big-box building center).
Oh, BTW, the screws arent stripped, the head is stripped out.....similar but not quite the same (I know, Im being picky, but words/terms matter).

Well my buddy came over with EZ-Outs, no such luck for removing them. So, out came the titanium drill bits and liqiuid wrench. I drilled the heads off and off came the mount. Took the remainder of them out with vice grips. It was a success!
Anyone know what would get dried blue locktite off of my barrel? I was thinking gasoline? Will that Mar/Blemish the blued finish?
I give much thanks to all you guys, this forum once again has saved many hours of frustration and decision making! Now just one more thing. How do you sight in open sights on a Handi? It has the stationary sight at the end of the barrel, and the one adjustable mid barrel that slides up and down.
 
 
Thanks,
-Evan

[Dinny]

It would appear to me that you have alot of reading to do.......FAQs.

Thanks, Dinny

[gcrank1]

Dried on surface Locktite can often be carefully scraped off with something softer than barrel steel; an old credit card edge is worth a try first, the best is a brass scraper (make one from the flattened mouth of cartridge brass). These wont marr the bluing or scratch at all. You need to get any Locktite out of the bottom of those holes too, or when you go to mount something up again the new screws will [possibly bottom out and be kept from tightening all the way down. It can be picky & futzy digging it out of there with small metal probes (I use some dental type picks), but well worth it. It may even look like it is out, you have to dig down in there to make sure.

[quickdtoo]

AFAIK there is no commonly available effective solvent for cured Loctite, I've tried acetone and laquer thinner to no avail, best I've come up with is heat(heat gun or torch) which softens it, then scrape with a softer-that-steel material like Blake suggested, a penny works as does lots of elbow grease and steel wool, small bits will come off with your fingernail even.

Tim

[jeepmann1948]

I found this on the net:
Chisel #79040 is a solvent product that Loctite sells specifically for removing their thread locking adhesives. It's a somewhat hazardous material and I've never seen it offered for retail, consumer sales. Methylene chloride, the major active ingredient in Chisel #79040, is available for retail purchase at automotive supply, painting, and home center stores. It's a nasty solvent chemical, so be careful using it. Follow all the labeled cautions and directions. Wear eye protection that completely seals around your eyes; common glasses aren't good enough because the chemical and splash around the sides and this stuff can permanently blind you if it gets in your eyes; please take no chances on this (my website is not yet available in Braille). Wear gloves. And work outdoors or in some other well-ventilated area. Be especially careful with methylene chloride on any balisong that has exotic insert materials or that has painted or coated handles. Even blade coatings could be attacked by this stuff. Methylene chloride is a nasty, powerful solvent; please be very careful with it.
 I have used it before ( Chisel) it works,but as stated above it is something to be very careful around
I use a bottom hole tap to get it out of internal threads, A brass wheel on a dremel tool will remove it from surfaces, just be sure to use just enough pressure for the wire wheel  to contact the surface
Good Luck
George

[evan1395]

AFAIK there is no commonly available effective solvent for cured Loctite, I've tried acetone and laquer thinner to no avail, best I've come up with is heat(heat gun or torch) which softens it, then scrape with a softer-that-steel material like Blake suggested, a penny works as does lots of elbow grease and steel wool, small bits will come off with your fingernail even.

Tim

^ Bic Lighter and Steel Wool worked awesome! Thanks a bunch guys. Really do appreciate all the info!

[Plenty Coups]

 There's help in the FAQs for that exact problem, had you read it first, you would have had no problems, heat is your friend in softening the thread sealant the factory uses, there are also fixes that you can do at home in the same FAQs link.An unnecessarily harsh reply. This happens a lot when referring others to the FAQ's! It may be easy for those who created the FAQ or who's life is GBO and the Handi rifle. For others, answers may not be easy to find and often inexperience creates panic. SO PLEASE, if the answer is in the FAQ's forum and you know it just post the link. 

[gcrank1]

Going to the FAQs is like going to the self help store........and the time spent there is not wasted.

[cwlongshot]

There's help in the FAQs for that exact problem, had you read it first, you would have had no problems, heat is your friend in softening the thread sealant the factory uses, there are also fixes that you can do at home in the same FAQs link.An unnecessarily harsh reply. This happens a lot when referring others to the FAQ's! It may be easy for those who created the FAQ or who's life is GBO and the Handi rifle. For others, answers may not be easy to find and often inexperience creates panic. SO PLEASE, if the answer is in the FAQ's forum and you know it just post the link.

I know what you are saying PC.

We all want to be (for the most part we are!) helpful with common questions but Tim and others worked long and hard creating the FAQ's. All the hours spent grabbing useful threads and posts, then putting and linking them all together is a SEACHABLE thread is a HUGE asset here! 

I completely agree It DOES seem daunting if you open the FAQ's and start scolling to find what you need...  DON'T DO THAT!! Simply use F3 or search and it makes it simple Simon!!

Tim probably resites ''check the FAQ's'' in his sleep!!!  SO many times guys post up a question that's answered in the FAQ's. I try to answer with the answer of most of it and suggest they go to the FAQ's or list a like thread (OR MULTIPLE like posts as referance)

Evan,
 I am glad you got the problem fixed!  Like the others I don't think it needed to be such a problem, BUT you got thru it realitively unscathed...  NEXT TIME, when you first feel a base screw (OR ANY that may/could be be lock tited) not want to budge, apply heat! Many times it dosent even need to be directly applied! IE, insert a properly fitting allen wrench and heat the wrench. The heat will transfer directly to the screw and by allowing just a couple extra seconds to maybe a minute the lock tite WILL BE loosened enough to allow easyer removal.

CW

[Couger]

 
Wow!  I wasn't aware that HEAT applied directly to a screw (small area!) transfers heat directly to the Loc-Tite "region" and adhesive, but that makes sense!
 
I too have had to drill out with tiny drill bits and tiny E-Z-out bits (handled by steady held plars!), stripped screws when removing a Handi-base ......
 
But not only is HEAT one's friend!  But also LOTS of PATIENCE and FINESSE too!
 
In addition however (and anticipating the future)  I bought a set of Leupold TORX screws (several dozen 6-48's and 8-40's) in a SET!
 
Don't recall offhand what I paid, but MidwayUSA has them.  And anticipate using them all up eventually! 

[evan1395]

There's help in the FAQs for that exact problem, had you read it first, you would have had no problems, heat is your friend in softening the thread sealant the factory uses, there are also fixes that you can do at home in the same FAQs link.An unnecessarily harsh reply. This happens a lot when referring others to the FAQ's! It may be easy for those who created the FAQ or who's life is GBO and the Handi rifle. For others, answers may not be easy to find and often inexperience creates panic. SO PLEASE, if the answer is in the FAQ's forum and you know it just post the link.

I know what you are saying PC.

We all want to be (for the most part we are!) helpful with common questions but Tim and others worked long and hard creating the FAQ's. All the hours spent grabbing useful threads and posts, then putting and linking them all together is a SEACHABLE thread is a HUGE asset here! 

I completely agree It DOES seem daunting if you open the FAQ's and start scolling to find what you need...  DON'T DO THAT!! Simply use F3 or search and it makes it simple Simon!!

Tim probably resites ''check the FAQ's'' in his sleep!!!  SO many times guys post up a question that's answered in the FAQ's. I try to answer with the answer of most of it and suggest they go to the FAQ's or list a like thread (OR MULTIPLE like posts as referance)

Evan,
 I am glad you got the problem fixed!  Like the others I don't think it needed to be such a problem, BUT you got thru it realitively unscathed...  NEXT TIME, when you first feel a base screw (OR ANY that may/could be be lock tited) not want to budge, apply heat! Many times it dosent even need to be directly applied! IE, insert a properly fitting allen wrench and heat the wrench. The heat will transfer directly to the screw and by allowing just a couple extra seconds to maybe a minute the lock tite WILL BE loosened enough to allow easyer removal.

CW

Apreciate it again CW. I suppose I will start making use of that search function on the forum. For me however, it seems easier and less time consuming to bother you older gents that can either give me first hand advice or the answer I need right away, rather than searching in a thread for my answer Sorry if it bothers you guys!!
 
Again, thanks all. Appreciate the help!

[cwlongshot]

Don't get me wrong, NO BOTHER AT ALL!! If I wasn't willing to help, I would not post! I WANT to help!

The SEARCH on the board/forum isn't as ''friendly'' as the search in the FAQ's. I like to use F3 myself, (IN FAQ's) when using the regular search, if you know authors name, choose advanced search for MUCH better results! 

If you want feel free to PM anytime, if you  worry about a public posting!

CW

[gcrank1]

Many (most?) of us can hardly restrain ourselves from passing on our hard earned knowledge  , but it is always a good idea to hit the FAQs and get a little groundwork established; it helps one to ask intelligent questions in a meaningful way. BTW, there are darn few stupid questions and we all had to start somewhere too  . There is good reason this is one of the most popular sites in the gunworld.

[geezerbiker]

I know it's all over and done... Anyway I've found that if I take a punch small enough to go inside the head of the screw and give it a couple three whacks with a hammer, the screw comes right out. 

This is a tip I picked up many years ago from an old mechanic.  It seems the vibration from the impact loosens the screw.  This is a big problem with Philips head screws and I usually hold a magnetic bit in a vise grip and give it a couple hits into the screw before trying to remove it.  It saves a lot of broken screws and worn screwdrivers.

Tony

[Winter Hawk]

So now on to other things, like dismantling the rifle....

At the bottom of the forearm you will see a screw.  Remove it and the front of the forearm will pull away from the barrel and can be removed.  If you now open the action, and be sure to hold on to the barrel while you do, the barrel can be moved back and off the hinge pin.  Once you do it and see how it comes apart, putting it back together is just the reverse.  That's all you really need for cleaning the rifle.  Later you can get into the intricacies (posted in the FAQs) of taking the guts out if you need to.

Sights!  The rear sight gets moved in the direction you want the point of impact to go.  If it is shooting low, raise the rear sight to raise the point of impact.  If it is shooting left of target, move the rear sight right to move the point of impact to the right.  I don't know if the rear sight you have has windage adjustment or not.  If it does you would use that, of course.  If it doesn't you may have to tap the sight over in its dovetail.  Be sure to use a brass drift between the hammer and the sight to avoid marring it.  And DON'T do this if the rear sight is screwed on to the barrel - this is only if it is dovetailed on.  Did you not get a manual with the gun?  It should tell you how to adjust the sights.

Have fun and be safe!

-Kees-

[Dinny]

There's help in the FAQs for that exact problem, had you read it first, you would have had no problems, heat is your friend in softening the thread sealant the factory uses, there are also fixes that you can do at home in the same FAQs link.An unnecessarily harsh reply. This happens a lot when referring others to the FAQ's! It may be easy for those who created the FAQ or who's life is GBO and the Handi rifle. For others, answers may not be easy to find and often inexperience creates panic. SO PLEASE, if the answer is in the FAQ's forum and you know it just post the link.

Reading the FAQs is like reading the Classifieds rules. Alot of unneccesary work and headache can be saved if everyone just read a little more and typed a little less.

Thanks, Dinny

[blind ear]

I do as geezerbiker does. I have a allen or star wrench broken off to use as a fitted punch. I will use heat next time as well before I attempt to loosen. If I don't forget as usual. ear

[gcrank1]

Part of the problem with gunscrews is perspective; many of us are decent mechanics but used to larger fasteners. Learning how much torque to apply and STOP if it doesnt break loose is a hard earned curve. A good rap first may be helpful though not always necessary, and I dont like whappin' on stuff if I dont have to. Sad thing is that a bunch of these fasteners are too soft, cheap junk to start with, so anything suspected as being Locktited in should get heat and maybe a rap before much torque is applied. Even though Ive had great success there is the odd one that seems to be defiant, and I will go for heat again.
After its out/off, dont make the mistake of using a soft, head compromised screw with Locktite again, and if you must use it, clean up the head/slot it, etc., dont re-torque too tight and replace asap.

[wtroger]

use methylene chloride (Chisel #79040)
[/size]Chisel #79040 is a solvent product that Loctite sells specifically for removing their thread locking adhesives

[evan1395]

 
If you want feel free to PM anytime, if you  worry about a public posting!

CW

I'll remember that in the future man, thanks a bunch! You always seem to pipe in on my threads anyway and hand out lots of information, appreciate every bit of it
 
Have a Happy New Years Guys !
 
To Winter Hawk:
Shooting Low = Raise the sight
Shooting High = Lower the sight?

[evan1395]

use methylene chloride (Chisel #79040)
Chisel #79040 is a solvent product that Loctite sells specifically for removing their thread locking adhesives

Nice to know in the future. This time heat applied (Bic Lighter) and some steel wool did the trick.