Something I don't quite understand

[petemi]

We, Patty and I, have fourteen centerfire Handi rifles.  We try to find the most accurate load for each rifle and sight them in at the maximum effective range of that load.  After that, we don't mess with it.  The scopes stay sighted in at that point.  If we want to shoot longer or shorter, softer or harder we don't change loads.  We change rifles.  Examples would be the Maxis for more.  The .32-20 for less.  7mm-08 for more.  .223 for less.  Why do folks continually poke around for hotter or softer loads?  Why not just change rifles?  To me, it just wastes time and ammo.

Pete

[dpe.ahoy]

That's what us folks with common sense do Pete.      I do find a load that works well and that is what I shoot.  With all the rifles around here, it's much easier to do what you do.    Just remember, not everyone has as many to choose from as we do    DP

[jeepmann1948]

Pete,
 Its like wearing long johns
 Change is good (especially after a night of beer and boiled cabbage with bratwurst)
George

[ibgp3]

Some people fish to live and some live to fish.


For some people reloading is a task and shooting is the fun part.


For others, reloading is as much fun as shooting.


As for me, I have found my cartridge in the 6.5 Creedmoor.
...Hornady makes good brass and sells it for a decent price.
I now have made brass from more than 20 different headstamps.
22-250 to 30-06
6mmXS to 7x57R


Since all of them make cloverleaf or smaller groups at 100 yds,
...the measurable difference is velocity.


I got a bayonet style chronograph so that I can test velocities more conveniently.
...Shooting with that chrony opens up groups and changes POI.
When I realized that the chrony was OK, it follows that I don't care where those bullets go.
...I'm just testing loads.


Right now, the LC 30-06 has the best weight consistency,
...but  among the smallest capacities.
...do weight consistencies translate to velocity consistencies?
...does a smaller case capacity translate to equal velocity with less powder,
...or lower max velocity?


After these questions are answered, will the best SD's and ES's translate to the smallest groups at 600 and 1000 yards?


Or will I need a new hobby?

[srussell]

I would say that cost be the reason. Some folks just cant afford that many rifles.

[petemi]

Pete,
 Its like wearing long johns
 Change is good (especially after a night of beer and boiled cabbage with bratwurst)
George

George, I don't challenge the beer. cabbage and brats, but when was the last time you wore long johns.  It musta been the last time it hit a frigid 50

[petemi]

It seems to me we find the sweet spot in any caliber we load for.  Plus or minus velocity or a change of powder or bullet puts that accuracy down the drain.  To me, velocity, for the most part is inconsequential.  Each caliber will shoot within a given speed range.  POI is the important part.  The powder and bullet that yields the best accuracy is what I go for.  Once found, it has a home.

Pete

[jeepmann1948]

I must agree with Pete, I find a load that shoots well and leave it alone,then I usually either buy another rifle or build one to play with some more.
And for your info Pete it is 43 degrees here right now
George

[ibgp3]

I find a load that shoots well and leave it alone,
then I usually either buy another rifle or build one to play with some more.
George

...but every load I've tried shoots well,
...and I have 4 different 6.5CM's, an AR, a bolt, and 2 Handi's.
 Can I make a Handi accurate to 600 yds ? 1000?


Sourdough does, but I haven't.

[ibgp3]

It occurs to me that when I could drive down to the fence line and put up a target ,
...drive back to the house, setup in the backyard, and shoot 500yds,
...I didn't have a chrony or any interest in one.


Now I have to drive 60 miles to shoot beyond 100yds,
...and I'm spending time at the bench trying to predict what will work,
...rather than pulling triggers to see what works.

[cwlongshot]

I agree with you Peter 100%. I do the exact same as you... BUT I also understand, we are lucky enough to HAVE these selections!!

IF, I where reduced to a single rifle, I too would be loading it for all levels of my needs...

Merry Christmas to all, with special prayers to those folks in Sandy Hook and our own Andy, who just lost his wife...

CW

[jeepmann1948]

That is a nice problem to have ibgp3( all the loads shooting well).
Have you thought about picking a rifle from the 6.5 Cm stable and dedicating it to a single load ? For instance  dedicating the AR to the lighter bullets for coyote hunting, the bolt gun for deer hunting, and the Handi's for Lots of practice at long range?
 Long range accuracy is accomplished by lots of practice using the same proper technique every time. Even breathing different can effect bullet placement.Knowing the firearm's "sweet spot" is also a requirement (trigger pull, bag placement,etc) Practice shooting for bullseyes instead of groups, keep records of time distance, temp,wind and use the same load every time.
 Carlos Hathcock ,a true American Hereo, has written a lot on long range shooting and did his job as a Marine sniper very well.
And the answer is Yes the Handi is capable of long range accuracy if the trigger puller does their part.
George

[AtlLaw]

I agree with you Pete!     'course, I agree with pretty much what everybody else has said also.  Even the beer/brats/undies and poor ol' "one gun" srussell!   
 
Back in my impressionable youth, I always chased the holy grail of velocity in my reloading.  My outlook began to change when I bought one of the first post '64 M-70's made.  It was in 300 Win Mag.  I figured I'd "load it down" for fairly short range (1-200 yards) deer hunting.
 
When I found that even the reduced loads easily exceeded the top velocities I could get with my 30-06, something clicked in my head.  Why should I be pushing the pressure envelope trying to squeeze out the last few fps from a cartridge!?  Get a bigger/faster cartridge if velocity was that important!  DUH!   
 
Now I pick a bullet and find the most accurate load for it.  Heck I don't even do much bullet picking anymore...    If I need bullets for a caliber, I usually just get Rem Core-Loks.  I do have hundreds of others, like my lifetime supply of the now discontinued .338 cal, 180 gr. Nosler BT.  A great light bullet for my 338-06 that I can get up to around 3K!  But guess what?  My hunting load is around 26-2700 fps!   
 
Nope, if I need more velocity then my 6.5x55 or 260 can easily give me, I'll get a 6.5-06.  If I don't think my 338-06 is enough gun, I'll use my 35 Whelen.  So I guess you and I are on the same track Pete!   
 
'course I sure would like a 6.5-06 Brown...    This desire for multiple calibers must be a 50-140 type of thing... 

[hoytcanon]

For my Handi's that are single purpose guns... 7mm/.30+ calibers (except .30/30) I find a sweet shooting load that maximizes energy and trajectory... and then don't mess with it... BUT, for some of the multi-purpose guns (at least for the kind of shooting/hunting we do)... we often have a hard and soft load... for example... when we are hunting coyotes with our .223's, we generally use 68 gr BTHP's... but we often are also hunting/seeing grouse and hares... so we always carry a dozen or so Hornady 55 gr V-Max (cheap bulk) loaded subsonic with 4.0 gr Trail Boss... we got a couple dozen hares in November (little suckers glowed white, with no snow on the ground!  ) thanks to this combo... for the subsonic we aim "two dots down" on the Mil-Dot scopes and that gets us dead on at 25 yards.  The .30 cal exception is with the .30/30's... we are often hunting thickets with the turdyturdy stubbies....... shooting Hornady 150 BTSP's over 34 gr of H4895... but we also carry loads with the same bullet over 8.0 gr TB and that has netted us a few fox, coons and hares (without messing them up to badly)... we are still working the bugs out of a combo load for .44 Mag... (this one is purely for the fun of it), so in some situations multiple loads work, particularly when actually carrying two guns is not practical.

[44 Man]

Me too!  I agree completely with Pete.  I like to find one load for a gun/caliber and that's what I use that gun for.  I also will know when I pick up that gun where it will shoot.  I'll try different bullets when I get a new gun but when I decide on a load I want all my brass loaded with it and that what the gun shoots from then on.  I will usually shoot all the odd stuff up for practice.  I am fortunate that my 7-08 shoots 120/130/140/150 gr bullets all within an inch of each other and all of those shoot less than an inch.  So that gun does give me options.  I have a friend that is always trying different loads and switching scopes.  As a consequince, when he picks up a rifle, he's not sure where it is going to shoot and has to take it to the bench to confirm it.  Luckily he has a 250 yd range in his back yard.  My 30-30 is set up with 125 gr Pro Hunters, the 7-08 with 140 gr Hornadys, the Win '06 is with 150 NBT and Corelocks.  I want to get a Handy (or try a Remington S18) in '06 for the 150's and move the Winchester up to 180 gr bullets, likely round nose.  So yes, a gun for each purpose.  I didn't mention the .223, I have 450 rounds of 50 gr sp's loaded for that.  I need more guns so I can work up more loads!    44 Man

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

....Why do folks continually poke around for hotter or softer loads?  Why not just change rifles?  To me, it just wastes time and ammo.
Pete

I do the same thing with vehicles, depending on the weather!   So far I have 5 trucks, and 2 cars.

[ibgp3]

I'm glad I have the freedom to scratch my itches my way.


...and I'm happy you can scratch yours your way.

[BUGEYE]

I would prefer one rifle with a full power load and a mild small game load.  I wouldn't want to be squirrel hunting with a small caliber and have the buck of a lifetime stand and gape at me like he knew he was safe.  (legally that is)

[.Dirty-.30]

I'm with you too Pete, if and when I find that perfect load, that'll be it! If and when....   

[OldSchoolRanger]

So the world is supposed to be ending today? That's sad. I never found out who let the dogs out I still don't know either ,the way to get to Sesame Street It's located at 100 Sesame Rd, Langhorne, PA , why Dora doesn't just use Google maps Beats me!, why we don't ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery" Maybe because Psychics aren't psychic, why women can't put on mascara with their mouth closed I don't know, and I don't want to know, why "abbreviated" is such a long word Now that's a real mystery, why lemon juice is made with artificial flavor yet dishwashing liquid is made with real lemons If you know let me know, why they sterilize the needle for lethal injections because the dummies in charge are afraid the condemned is going to get an infection and why do you have to "put your two cents in" but it's only a "penny for your thoughts"? Where's that extra penny going to? It usually cost you more to butt into someone else business, the extra penny is going to taxes Why did Joanie love Chachi? Because the screenwriters thought it would be the premise for a hit show If a deaf person has to go to court is it still called a hearing? It's actually called a "signing"Can a hearse carrying a corpse drive in the carpool lane? I would say based on my experience as aa ex-LEO, yes Does the alphabet song and twinkle twinkle little star have the same tune? You know George I never even thought about that Why did you just try to sing those two previous songs? Now you done it, I can't get that idea out of my mine, I think the tunes are stuck, HELP!And just what is Victoria's secret? Victoria's secret is that her husband the founder of the company started Victoria's Secret, because he was embarrassed to go shopping for lingerie for his wife You see, the world just has to keep going. I have too many questions.

George, please don't post anymore questions, they're driving me crazy. 

Actually I thought they were great!     

[mechanic]

I see a guy at the range often who also reloads.  He is always asking me what load I'm shooting, and telling me, "I run that bullet 300fps faster" as though that really matters to me.  I load for accuracy, and like some have stated, get a bigger gun if needed.
 
My Pop was continually trying to get another few fps. out of a load and constantly tinkering even with an accurate load, but he was retired and bored.  I barely can find the time to load and shoot as it is.
 
Ben

[tacklebury]

I prefer to have specific guns for specific things.  Unfortunately, when I got back into shooting, there has been a series of financial drains that really haven't let me experiment too much, so I got specific calibers that had a lot of flexibility, namely .45-70 & .45 colt.  Now that things have settled down I've picked up a number of other calibers and do more like you do.  I don't have dedicated frames for each though.  Mostly, all my barrels lock up nice on one frame, so it works well.    I do have a separate receiver for my .357 magnum, with shorty stocks for the wife to shoot mostly, and now for my .223 stalker has one that was factory fitted that is really smooth.  I think I'm going to keep that one with the BC wood and it's own frame also. 

[Brian P.]

I like experimenting with load development just to see.  I have a super reduced 223 load with SR4759 and a 45gr Hornet bullet that is my '218 Bee' load. It also has a H4895 70gr Speer load that starts cratering primers for deer.  I had fun days developing both loads.  Next will be cast and that's probably where the gun will stay, but I have greater overall knowledge now of the calibre as well as the rifle.
*No 3-gun set will provide me more enjoyment than I got exploring various loads with the one rifle I have.

[BBF]

Time is what I got plenty on my hand with little to do. So I fiddle with changes when I feel the need to reduce the boredom.

[Mike in Virginia]

I don't live by my own advice, but I think a person should make do with one gun.  Like the frontier days.  They didn't have Handi's then, but they had longrifles and Hawkens and smoothbores.  One gun did everting the owner needed to be done with a gun.  I like that notion.  The trick is not to be a one gun man with a 30-06.  Won't work.  But there are modern cartridges that would work.  Like a .357. 

[mechanic]

Thats why I just have one gun, Mike!    I've got one 223, one 243, one 45-70, one 17hmr, etc. etc.
 
Ben

[BBF]

.................
 
........................... The trick is not to be a one gun man with a 30-06.  Won't work.........................

That would be the one cartridge IMO that could be used for a single CF rifle.
I lived and hunted many years with a Ruger 77 in that cartridge and would have filled all my needs/use and saved a pile of money by just sticking with it.
 
Then the magnumitis bug hit me................

[petemi]

Then the magnumitis bug hit me................

That's one disease I have managed to escape.  When H&R announced the soon arrival of the Handi Magnums, I ordered one of each, 7mm Remington and 300 Winchester.  Today, I thank the Lord they never happened.  At 71, I don't envision drawing a bead on a brown bear at 400 yards....or ten feet for that matter; or anything else that would like to invite me to lunch.  I'm not so sure of myself, but the rifles I do own are capable of taking down anything that wanders Michigan at quite respectable range.

Pete

[gcrank1]

That 12ga. slugger of mine, '727 Ol' Ugly Overkill' took care of any 'magnumitis I had thought I could handle; makes a stiff loaded 45-70 seem downright gentle. Maybe someday I'll get to try that 500 with a round of factory, just to say I did it.........but I dont have to own them 'all'.

[BBF]

Then the magnumitis bug hit me................

That's one disease I have managed to escape.  When H&R announced the soon arrival of the Handi ......
 

I got past it as well. The last Magnum anything I had was a Ruger Lever carbine in 44 Mag.
Nowadays if I want to rock my world I use the 45-70 with a Marlin level load. Plenty enough "rock" for me now.